Why do parks often go with one train operations on coasters?

[robbalvey]

Imagine a situation like the one at Universal Orlando, where one of the perks of staying at an onsite hotel is skipping the regular lines. Now, what happens when that perk becomes pointless because the rides have no lines? Do you think those guests who "paid extra" for that benefit just shrug it off, or do they instead complain bitterly and demand money back?

As someone who has very good friends who have worked in Guest Relations at parks that offer virtual queue systems I have asked this very question.

 

First off, this is a very rare case to begin with. Turns out most people don't even realize that the regular lines are that short. They just assume that, no matter what, they are getting their money's worth.

 

Secondly, I myself have purchased Flash Pass or Express passes when the lines are only 10-15 minutes and I STILL find the virtual queue well worth the money. I look at it this way "Why wait 10 minutes when you don't have to wait anything at all?" Those 10 minutes can certainly add up during the day and if it saves you even just an hour during a park visit which means you either get it more rides or it allows your day to be a bit more relaxing - well worth the money!

 

And finally, when you do have someone that complaints about it, IMO, it's really up to each person buying the device to make their own judgement call if they need it or not. If you pull into a park and there are 10 cars in the lot, and you still buy the Flash Pass, then I think that person DESERVES to pay for their stupid mistake! There is no one you can really complain to at all, other than yourself. Because technically, that Flash Pass *WILL* still get you on the ride before the other 8 people in line, so it's not being falsely advertized.

 

--Robb "Someone who STRONGLY supports virtual queuing systems." Alvey

[Jew]

As for Six Flags, I'm fairly certain that any theory that involves them being too smart to piss off their customers can be safely dismissed.

 

Why? Six Flags loved putting out press releases about their guest satisfaction surveys, so surely they would take into account the fact that "angry people waiting in longer lines=lower satisfaction scores and people MUCH less likely to spend extra money at the park or return for future visits to spend more money."

 

No one is questioning that SF has tons of room for improvement in their operations...There's just no logical explanation for why those bad operations are to drive sales of flashpasses.

[FeelTheFORCE]

The other reason I've seen happen, more often than you would imagine, is that someone vomits on a coaster, they will hose it down, and then cycle it empty about 10 times to "air it out." Seriously, this actually does happen! So then you walk in the station and are all "Why are they are running one train empty, one train full when the station is busy???" but it turns out this is actually the case.

 

--Robb

 

I've seen this happen on Apollo's Chariot and Carowinds' Intimidator. Not a happy process for riders or ride-ops.

 

Same here. I've seen it happen at Cedar Point many times. Maverick, Raptor, Mantis, etc. As you guys have said, it's a fairly common practice.

[KDCOASTERFAN]

I'm guessing that if a ride is running only one train it is for one of the following reasons:

 

1. There are no other available trains either because the ride only has one train, there is a mechanical issue with the other train(s) or because all other trains are in the process of refurbishment. At seasonal parks, it is rare for trains to be refurbished during the season but at year-round parks it happens all the time.

 

2. It would be unsafe to run more than one train. This is especially common when it is raining due to the possibility of a train to overshoot the brakes when they are wet, and is the case on every shuttle coaster I know of (except Mr. Freeze).

 

3. It is a low crowd day and the park doesn't see a need to operate more than one train. I see this all the time during the winter at my local parks because most of the time a park won't run two trains when there is at most a two or three train wait and it would take additional people to add a second train without stacking.

 

4. The park wants to encourage guests to buy their skip the line passes. I have only seen this at Six Flags (more at Discovery Kingdom than Magic Mountain) where they were running one train on everything or running two trains with a minimum three minute dispatch interval. I find this to be a very bad tactic as it means the park may not be very crowded but you will still wait a half hour (at least) for any major ride.

 

I have also found that some parks (most notably Knott's out of places I've visited) will run two trains but only load one. I am not entirely sure why they do this, but I assmue it is so that they can use both if the line gets long without having to shut the ride down to add an additional train. I really don't see why they don't load both trains in this case but I'm sure there is a reason for it.

 

 

Ahh yes,this is something I picked up on in the years of going to SFA since fastlane/flashpass was introduced.They want the queue to be full so as to give the impression that using their overpriced paid line jumping service will seem like a good idea.

[Electerik]

As for Six Flags, I'm fairly certain that any theory that involves them being too smart to piss off their customers can be safely dismissed.

 

Why? Six Flags loved putting out press releases about their guest satisfaction surveys, so surely they would take into account the fact that "angry people waiting in longer lines=lower satisfaction scores and people MUCH less likely to spend extra money at the park or return for future visits to spend more money."

 

No one is questioning that SF has tons of room for improvement in their operations...There's just no logical explanation for why those bad operations are to drive sales of flashpasses.

 

I'm forced to agree that Six Flags' bad operations are not to drive sales, simply because they had bad operations long before they had flashpasses. Still, don't the bad operations themselves sort of prove that they don't particularly understand/care about guest satisfaction?

 

My point here is not so much that any park is currently "slowing things down" to sell more front-of-the-line passes. But rather that it will happen eventually. Remember that no one use to sell these things at all. If virtual queues existed, they were always free. Many people said then that no one would ever try to sell them because it would anger the regular guests. Yet here we are.

 

The one thing has led to the other, and it doesn't take much vision to see where it will go next.

 

I could, of course, be wrong. But I wasn't last time.

[TPDave]

^^ Have you read any of the posts after the one you quoted was made?

Edited May 23, 2010 by TPDave

[Skycoastin Steve]

Alot of times the reason for a one train operation is just do to the number of operators they have working at that time. Some rides would only would need 2 operators when doing a single train. But to run muliple they would need at least 3 operators.

What? I've not ever heard of any coaster that requires three operators in order to run a 2-train operation.

 

In fact, I've actually seen a 2-train operation on a B&M Floorless run by a SINGLE operator once!

 

--Robb

 

Rampage required at least 3 for a two-train operation (per the manual) so there would be one person at the driver's booth, and one person on each side checking restraints. However, two-train operation was so infrequent that we rarely had to worry about it.

[VF15]

Valleyfair often runs one train on their coasters, and this is probably because the park doesn't normally get that busy. They will run multiple trains if the line gets to a certain length, but on most days, it is usually one-train operation. However, Wild Thing almost always runs two trains (except for seriously dead days).

 

I don't mind one train operation that much as long as the crew is doing a good job, but when it's a busy Saturday and a park is only running one train, that can get frustrating, but there might be understandable reasons for it, so I shouldn't get too angry.

[Schrecken]

I remember when SFMM used to have a policy (maybe they still do? I don't know, I haven't been there since 02') where they would only run one or two (two for a coaster that could and did normally run three trains) trains on weekdays all during the off-season. Granted, weekdays during off season were usually pretty dead, but once in a while the park could get pretty crowded. And what irritated me was that no matter how crowded it got and no matter how bad the lines got (even for then brand new coasters like Goliath) they would never see fit to add another train. Only on weekends would they run the max. number of trains that particular coaster could run.

So apparently some parks do (did) have a blanket policy based on certain times of the year and days of the week when they would try to anticipate how crowded the park might normally be.

Also, it used to irk me when SFA would only run one train on Wild One, regardless of the time or year or day of the week, and this was because the other train wasn't operational for whatever reason.

So yes, I can see a park having fewer trains on the track on days and times that are normally rather slow, but it would be nice if they would also have a contingency plan on the off chance that the park might get really crowded. I have been at a few parks where they would add an extra train if lines become fairly long.

[coasterbill]

I never understood why more year round parks didn't invest in more trains than they actually need. At Knott's for example you would think that since the park is open every day they would have a spare train for Silver Bullet as running one train for months at a time on an invert is a little insane.

 

Still... I don't get upset when I visit a park in the offseason and they're not running at full capacity. It's the offseason and I expect that going in.

[BigDipper 80]

When I worked at Cedar Point, we only removed trains if there was an operational reason that required it. Even on the slowest days we ran both of Mantis' trains. Frankly, one-train operation is as incredibly boring for the ride operators as it is inconvenient for those waiting in line. Standing around for two minutes waiting for a train to return completely throws off your groove.

[rcjp]

I never understood why more year round parks didn't invest in more trains than they actually need. At Knott's for example you would think that since the park is open every day they would have a spare train for Silver Bullet as running one train for months at a time on an invert is a little insane.

 

Still... I don't get upset when I visit a park in the offseason and they're not running at full capacity. It's the offseason and I expect that going in.

It would be nice if more parks did like BGT which bought one more train than they needed for kumba so that they could always run it on full capacity. Sadly we know things aren't like that.

[ajfelice]

It would be nice if more parks did like BGT which bought one more train than they needed for kumba so that they could always run it on full capacity. Sadly we know things aren't like that.

 

I'll put the bill in your mailbox for the purchase these extra trains. Perhaps then would be less of a saddening issue for you when parks sacrifice some efficiency in the slow season.

 

Sacrificing one out of three trains or even going down to one train operation on a two-train coaster during the dead of the slow season is not going to negatively impact a park on those busier days that were supposed to be in the slow season. I have encountered several situations as a park employee over the past four years when not every ride vehicle was available and the crowds were higher than expected. You simply adjust your operations and do the best you can do with the resources you have. I have never been called over to a guest situation or received a formal guest complaint about single train operation on a busier day that was projected slow. It is simply not worth the extra cost of acquiring and increased annual maintenance costs for those few days during the slow times when maximum trains could be needed. To expect a park to have a "spare" train is like asking your rich grandfather to have an spare Corvette in case you want to drive it on the one nice winter day it is in the shop for inspection.

Edited December 30, 2014 by ajfelice

[rcjp]

^Hey I know these things are expensive and it is true that during slower days the effect might not be so big. Still it's not like parks can't afford them and it is things like this which sometimes show us the attention they pay to the overall experience. I mean, parks like SFMM are very often criticised for 1 train operations and because while it is true that some days even with only 1 train running you might have to wait less than you would on a busy day with the ride running at full capacity they could still do a bit better. I'm not saying every single park should buy one more train than they can run at a time but it surely isn't just a waste of money, is it?

[ZeroGravity55]

^ I think you also have to factor in overall maintenance as well. More trains would obviously add to the maintenance cost, plus you would probably need to have more maintenance people on staff to take care of the trains. If you go to HW in May or weekdays in early June, you'll find that they have one train operation on all their coasters. Why? One, it is not needed as there is not enough people in the park to justify it. Two, the park spends a ton of money on re-tracking their coasters every year and it makes no sense to ruin all that work early on in the season by running a train they don't need. I would imagine that it's the same thing with steel coasters, expect this time it's the wheels. I would imagine the wheels for the trains are very expensive and running trains you don't need would cause them to wear down faster. At the end of the day, it's simple business; you don't spend money on things you don't need. Especially if it won't really improve your customer experience that much.

[Nrthwnd]

It's kind of silly to mention it, but Coaster in Playland(PNE) usually runs only one train during it's regular season.

In other circumstances, including the annual fair (PNE), it some times runs two trains.

 

I would love to see how it handles three trains at once. And it has that many,

I know. Yellow, red, and purple trains. Probably never.

[Jew]

At the end of the day, theme parks are still a business.

[gerstlaueringvar]

Because it's not always necessary to run multiple trains. Running a coaster is really expensive, especially if it's a launch coaster. Some of the launch coasters costs over $30 to run once. I would totally understand if a park is doing one train operation when the line is less than 30 minutes.

[rcjp]

^Really?? I knew some LSM/LIM coasters had pretty expensive cycles but had no idea they could be that much.

[GCI Wooden]

^^WOW, $30+ a cycle, that is definitely going to add up quickly.

 

That makes me wonder how much it takes to run a Intamin Impulse coaster...

[gerstlaueringvar]

^^WOW, $30+ a cycle, that is definitely going to add up quickly.

 

That makes me wonder how much it takes to run a Intamin Impulse coaster...

I know it costs around $37 to run U-Shaped coaster once, since LSM saves more electricity than LIM, I would guess higher than $40.

 

Does anyone know how much it cost to run an Intamin accelerator or an S&S air launch coaster once?

[rcjp]

^I don't know but I think they are supposed to be fairly more economical than LSM/LIM. I think I read somewhere than intamin accelerator coasters don't cost that much more to run than a chain/cable lift one would.

[rcjp]

^^By the way, do you know if the U shaped coaster has regenerative braking or something like that? I imagine that saves/would save quite a bit of power.

[WFChris]

Whether it was true or not, when Goliath opened they announced that it took the same amount of electricity to get a train up the lift as it does to power a single family home for a year.