Trims = Bad?

[bgwfreak777]

Trims can ruin a ride or in spots, like 305's 2nd hill trim pretty much kills your chance at air unless you're in the back.

 

And now I'm hearing that they did add a trim to the first drop, which may not affect it as much since it's looking like a magnetic trim instead.

 

There are ones that are very bad like Mean Streak and Beast that just are very tacky and while I understand the purpose, I just wish they could trim it another way or another place on the ride.

 

It seems Carowinds did some tweeking to Intimidator's, because I heard the end of April it was trimming really hard, but ever since then it's been very light. I've never had it trim me hard before personally and I've gotten 52 rides so far.

[Pingu1651]

^ Agreed. Trims are necessary, but they need to be placed correctly. I never mind MCBR trims because they're designed to be there, but over-trimming to the point where the GP complains about it is terrible. Just because some enthuiasts hate trims doesn't mean they aren't necessary.

[coasternut]

Ride the Beast, then you decide.

 

Cedar Fair has neutered the beast At least 3 or 4 new sets of trims to "save the ride from tearing itself up." IT RUINS THE PACING OF THE RIDE TOTALLY!

[CreditCrazy]

From a coaster enthusiast standpoint, I hate them. It's really annoying when you're on California Screamin' or Beast when all of a sudden you get a complete slow down. I think Diamondback's ruined the air-time hill it is on and made the following helix completely pointless... And Mean Streak's was just ridiculous.

 

However, from the park's view, they are a smart idea for reasons already meantioned; like to reduce maintenance costs.

 

Overall, I completely understand why they are there, I just simply prefer them not to be.

[FeelTheFORCE]

An example of this - - - Maverick's launch into trims. Why not just launch it a few mph slower?

 

It would probably be more than a few. It might be the difference of 20 MPH or so. The general public are attracted to high thrills and fast speeds. Maverick is most likely going to go over better with the GP by launching at 70 MPH rather than 50 MPH (exaggeration). Being such a low to the ground coaster, the general public would probably perceive it as a kiddie coaster if it just meandered slowly throughout the course. Launching at 70 MPH gives it that *wow factor* and makes people say, "Holy **** this is fast!" rather than "This is kind of boring..."

 

But why not keep the launch fast but design the rest of the ride to fit the launch properly? I definitely agree that you need the "wow" factor coasters need, especially something like maverick, which doesn't have the height. I'd rather see it use that "wow factor" speed, in elements throughout the ride instead of trimming it down.

 

I completely understand what you mean, but I'm not sure Maverick could have been built any bigger. Space-wise and also money-wise, it was already $21 million as it is now. One could only imagine how much it would cost if the layout accommodated that 70 MPH launch.

[the ghost]

When Screamin first opened it gave ejector airime throughout the course and was an INSANE coaster. It now gives one or two moments of okay air after the launch in the front and the drop after the loop on in the back, but the bunnys were ruined. Those used to be a major highlight of the ride, but now they are kind of just there. I understand it is a family ride however, so it made some sense cause that thing was INTESNSE, but as an enthusiast I hate them. Vipers are okay cause of hang time. Thats why I love GCIs(never ridden a TGG) they have little to no trims on like nay of there rides, Terminator hauls ass pretty much throughout, and the pacing is absolutely incredible.

[crazywolf88]

The problem with I305's trims as far as I'm concerned is its going to completely alter the force of the first drop and result in a vastly different far less impressive drop. Trims doing down a 85* 300 foot drop is not right. At least put the trims going up a hill or in a flat segment when the train is decelerating anyways, I feel that way the trims go less noticed.

How would putting the trims later in the ride alter the first turn. The trims were added because the first turn was too tight, in a perfect world intamin would have added a launch up the next hill to bring it back up to speed.

 

Thankfully intamin and kings dominion is tearing down, and rebuilding the first turn and second hill, making the turn wider so I305 will re-claim its record for the fastest gravity powered roller coaster in the world

 

EDIT:I meant the country, not the world.

Edited January 8, 2011 by crazywolf88

[WW1 Flying Ace]

^Gravity powered coaster? Isn't that the definition of a roller coaster versus a powered coaster? I will assume you mean non-launching coasters and apparently Millennium Force and Steel Dragon 200 don't count.

 

Trims typically don't bother me except when they are insane and over the top like on the beast. On such rides like Montu or Apollo's Chariot I don't really mind them as I haven't seen them making a major impact on the rest of the ride. Still they would be better without them but, subtle trims won't ruin a ride for me.

[ebl]

^ I'm sure the term "gravity powered coaster" is being used because of the increasing number of coasters that get to speed by way of some kind of launch mechanism.

 

Trims aren't my favorite thing either, but since we all want extreme thrills, they're a necessary evil if we want to reduce track wear and tear.

 

Eric

[cal1br3tto]

I don't freak out over trims. Since I can't change the circumstances, I'd rather enjoy rides as they are when I ride them, even if they could be (and in some cases have been) better. I'll admit I think it would be great if trims didn't exist, but I know they're installed for a reason.

[braztaz]

and apparently Millennium Force and Steel Dragon 200 don't count.

 

i305 clocked in at 94mph, and although it beat out Millennium Force, it was just 1mph off from Steel Dragon. So fastest gravity-driven coaster in the U.S would work out.

 

Oh, and I love trims if they are designed with the ride. Launch coasters that use them could only launch half the speed if there were no trims. Trims mean less height and more speed, which is a big money-saver!

[Hugecoltsfan]

I can not stand trims especially the trims on Hurler at KD

[A.J.]

...but I know they're installed for a reason.

 

Most definitely.

 

The coaster enthusiast group and the general public are two completely different groups of riders. Unfortunately, the majority of amusement parks are at the mercy of the general public's opinion! While we all love the intensity of Intimidator 305's first turn, it seems as though John Smith and Jane Doe can't handle it. Since John and Jane both live in Virginia and each have families, they've bought season passes for King's Dominion. If their children that meet Intimidator 305's minimum height restriction black out on the ride, they wouldn't want to take their kids back to Kings Dominion anymore, because the ride's unsafe for their children! Guess what park just lost season pass subscribers?

 

To keep those kinds of riders coming back to the park, they need to control the ride's forces by lowering the speed of the ride.

 

Of course, my analogy could be completely bogus. I'm sort of making this up as I go along.

[ABW]

Mantis?

 

You can tell it was designed to travel a little quicker around that circuit... nowadays the banking doesn't correctly alter the forces and bangs your head about...

 

Th13teen?

 

Ha Ha HA. Laughable trimmage. It might aswell be a powered coaster. Turned a great little ride into a sluggish turd.

 

From what I've heard, B&M Hypers. Now I don't give one about a type of Airtime they want. A rollercoaster is ment to be wild. If your body can tolerate the G load then let it go... To me they go (in a simple form lol)... *rolling* "weeee" *brakes* "shunt" *rolling* "weeee" *brakes* "UGH shunt" and so on... And that would ruin a ride for me.

 

 

Now Maverick I can understand. Those corners with that speed. Jeeezz, it would rape you.

 

You do realize that Mantis has no trims anymore as of the 2010 season right?

[bill_s]

The idea of making sure there is enough speed and reducing if necessary is sound enough. The problem is that so many coasters have been about perfect and then trims were added or increased. And a lot of them aren't for maintenance issues as much as customer comfort/compliants (exception: I305).

 

Why do so many people make out trims to be so evil, as if the rollercoaster companies set out to ruin your riding experience! I've even seen it mention that the addition of trims is a sign of "bad design"! If anything it's a sign of good design, if they've left areas for brakes to be added they've aticipated how the ride may behave.

 

Well, one problem with I305 is they *didn't* leave areas for brakes to be added. That's why they're on the drop, there's no other place they can go before the problem spot of the first curve. There's very few other suitable spots on its layout either (it was suggested to add them on the 150' hill -- not only would that not deal with the problem, they would have to be in an equally airtime-killing location).

 

Also, the original strong trims on the 75' hill did not kill the air on that hill as much as disturbing the flow of the ride so much it was hard to tell much about the hill itself. I did like the feeling of approaching the hill too fast, like when in a car and you suddenly jam on the brakes due to realizing you could die.

 

B&M [...] So by adding a trim, you can extend that period of time where you're completely weightless... I think it's more fun to be completely weightless for a really long time

 

Except most of their coasters only have good airtime in the rear seats. I remember how good the 2nd drop on Alpengiest was a couple of trim adjustments ago, and Griffon's been slowed down recently as well ...

 

I can think of one ride that could use some more trims: Anaconda (before the loop). Elsewhere at KD, Hurler has been completely ruined, it was an airtime monster that has now been neutered. Many didn't like it, I usually rode 5 times.

 

Now, one thing that seems make trim-haters forget their mission: Vekoma SLCs. No trims (at least the original layout), great "pre-B&M" design :duck:

[rcdude]

I really don't have a problem with trim brakes provided that they fall under one of the following two categories:

 

1. The ride was originally designed to use them. This is often the case on wild mouse coasters or rides with a mid-course brake that is always in use (such as most B&M and Arrow coasters, especially dive machines).

 

2. The trims aren't excessive. I define excessive as any trim brake that A) brings the train to a stop or near-stop at any point in the middle of the ride, B) slows the train enough for the deceleration to be easily seen from off-ride, or C) Causes the ride to feel as if it could stall.

 

Just because a ride is trimmed doesn't mean I won't ride it. I'm sure that parks have a reason for turning on the trim brakes when they do so, and as long as it isn't excessive I rarely notice much difference on the ride anyway.

[DougMJr]

I'm by no means a fan of trims. But I understand that they are sometimes necessary. And I am forgiving when the trims are designed into the original design, like Maverick for example. It just hurts to see a trimmed coaster not living up to its potential

[bill_s]

Oh, just thought of also: favorite trim Flight of Fear, vs. the later trimless outdoor version at SFA ... I think it allows the launch to be stronger yet the right speed at the corkscrew, the later version was retuned for OTSRs so now isn't as good, if it even had a chance being outdoors. The trim does bring FoF to a near stop sometimes (complete once actually), but it's kind of creepy up at the very top in there.

[liftsifter]

Doesn't fabrication cost cheap these days? I hear about 100 lbs. of steel is only a few bucks.

[Sasquatch]

I would like to see how both Giovanola Goliaths would run if their MCBR trims were reduced a bit, when the train slams into them it seems to mess up the pacing of the ride a little... I mean, the second half still looks fast but the dropoff from the MCBR into the corkscrew-transition is really, really slow.

 

Of course, this is judging by videos of the ride, I haven't actually ridden either of them

[cal1br3tto]

^I love the slow turn on Goliath! It's pretty freaky, and it didn't ruin the rest of the ride for me.

[VF15]

You can find plenty of trims at my home park, which is Valleyfair. High Roller, Mad Mouse, Excalibur, and Wild Thing all have trims brakes turned on to very high levels. I believe that the reason VF does this is just to be cheap and save a few bucks, and that's the type of trimming that annoys me. If the trim brakes were there when the ride was built and they're mean't to make the ride safer, I'm perfectly okay with that because I'd like to return to the station unharmed, but if they're just trimming to save money, that annoys me. Although, I do appreciate the trims on Excalibur because that ride can be rough, and the trims help to make the ride a little less rough.

[cfc]

I think the only coaster where I've had a major gripe about a trim brake is Raging Bull at Six Flags Great America. This has the potential to be one of B&M's best rides, but the trim early on after the excellent first drop just kills it. I suppose there's a reason I'm not aware of for having this trim brake, but they really should change the name to "Wandering Steer."

[Sharman19]

Rougarou wouldn't be as good as many will expect if Cedar Point doesn't take out that dreaded trim brake. Mantis wasn't good with that nasty trim.

[DJeXeL]

^The GP aren't going to give a damn. Only people that complain about trims are enthusiASSts.