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Kings Dominion (KD) Discussion Thread

P. 766: Haunt Has Risen from the Grave

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All right, what does the PLB have to say about this new and exciting coaster that is about to hit Kings Dominion (my main park) next year?

 

How about "History repeating itself?"

 

You see, waaaaaay back in the year 2000 (when Kings Dominion was celebrating it's twenty-fifth year in operation), the only new things the park added was additions to its Water Works attractions (Big Wave Bay, the Splashhouse, and Little Barefoot Cove for the kiddies). At that time, I had a season pass for the second consecutive year and was considering taking a year off. But before I did, Kings Dominion announced adding their eleventh roller coaster to the park, an extreme ride that was one-of-a-kind, a coaster called HYPERSONIC XLC!!!

 

So I renewed by pass for another year.

 

Now we come to today - it's the 2009 season and the newest rides added were two flats. Now I have a Platinum Pass (that I have used twice in Kings Dominion, three times in Carowinds, once at Kings Island, and once at Cedar Point, so far). This is my second consecutive pass, but my first platinum pass. And I was thinking of taking next year off when, all the sudden and out of the blue, Kings Dominion will be debuting it's newest Giga Coaster.

 

Thanks a lot, Kings Dominion. I'm delighted and disgusted at the same time. No, not on the upcoming ride, it's just I cannot decide if I should go VIP or Platinum for next year. It makes me go

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Hasn't there been a rumor floating around that B&M submitted a plan for MF but it was way more expensive than the Intamin plan?

 

Yeah I heard that one...but did you hear the one about B&M refusing to go over the 230ft mark on ANY coaster ever...

 

I was under the impression the whole 230 ft thing came recently. Back when MF was designed, were talking probably around 1996-1997, when B&M was still a very young company and only had 2-3 different ride types. Im sure they were willing to experiment with a 300+ ft coaster back then, but by now they have found their "niche" as others have put it and would rather build more cookie-cutter type quality rides then experiment with new things that could be a failure in the long run.

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So I twittered KD

 

 

Can we get any info on the giga coaster sitting in your parking lot?

 

and they responded

 

We have pieces of a puzzle in the parking lot! keep a keen eye out and about in the park for hints!

 

It seems like there will be some obvious clues throughout the park hinting at what this ride will be so start searching!!!

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^ That's why Intamin have redesigned the track/support system, just so that they are able to build bigger rides with less material.

 

So this could really mean that we might see some other large rides in the future

WHat can a giga do that a hyper cannot? Before a hyper the only coasters you really got airtime on where wooden coasters so I can understand the hyper craze but I wouldnt hold my breath for a giga craze...

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Hasn't there been a rumor floating around that B&M submitted a plan for MF but it was way more expensive than the Intamin plan?

 

Its very common for a park to contact 4 or 5 ride builders and choose the one that gives them the best price... or design (if money is no object) of what they need. Thats why Cedar Fair has used Intamin so much, the price is always the lowest.

 

If the money is right, any company will build anything.

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Wow. I never thought this would happen to Kings Dominion. I'm VERY interested to see what this will turn out to be. To me the new track style looks like it is meant to use less steel but still be nice and strong. Less steel probably means less expense. As far as expectations go, I'm going to try my best to keep them low and just watch the construction as it goes. I've never been to Kings Dominion (or ANY of the parks on the east coast for that matter haha). I might need to plan a trip to Virginia next season.

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Hasn't there been a rumor floating around that B&M submitted a plan for MF but it was way more expensive than the Intamin plan?

 

Its very common for a park to contact 4 or 5 ride builders and choose the one that gives them the best price... or design (if money is no object) of what they need.

 

Yep. If memory serves me correctly, I believe Tony and Tyler of Cedar Point posted on their blog a while back saying that they picked Maverick out of like two or three other choices. Also, I remember, at one point Kennywood was on the verge of getting a Vekoma SLC a few years back, but canned the project at the last moment and probably decided to wait for something better. That's a common occurrence with parks building new rides...there are usually many propositions and options on the table at one point in time.

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A quick follow-up to my earlier post...

 

Unless they've changed their policy, B&M won't build coasters taller than 230 feet, due to the supports they use, among other reasons. I've been told this by numerous Cedar Fair, Busch, and Six Flags managerial-types over the past 7 years. (I've been told that CF wanted Behemoth and Diamondback to be taller than they are.) The fact that the biggest B&M's out there are only 230' substantiates this claim. The biggest thing to remember is that B&M is a VERY small company, who fiercely prides themselves in the products they provide. What you see is what you get, and you won't find more reliable coasters out there besides wood (B&M Flyers being a little more finnicky). This is a big reason why they command such premium prices on their rides. You pay for the B&M brand, but also the quality. They'll customize their rides to a certain level, but essentially if you want something beyond their "niche," they will politely send you to another company. Don't believe me? Ask yourself this: how many launched coasters have B&M done? The Hulk at IOA, and they simply built the ride. The launch portion was designed by another company, of which B&M didn't support.

 

I worked as an Intern for B&M sometime back. I loved every (INTENSE) minute of it, but sadly went without a full-time job designing coasters like I wanted, and I tried EVERY company out there. I got close to getting a job with S&S designing woodies, but it didn't work out. I also worked at KD under Paramount (PKD) for 5 years, starting out as a ride-op and moving up to a year in mid-level management before quitting to my current career outside the industry. Now I just ride for fun.

 

I can assure you based on my past experience that Busch has an exclusivity contract with B&M, and that as company policy, B&M keeps the details of those contracts quiet, including duration of time and how exclusive (ie, the mileage of the "no-build" area around a park.) Companies inquiring about building B&M models under exclusivity contracts with rivals are simply told that B&M is unable to sell them specific models at that time. KD falls under the area of exclusivity for BGE, and I believe Six Flags America does as well. So again, Busch builds a B&M ride under the agreement that B&M won't build a similar model within a certain distance from (X) park for a certain number of years. Busch pays a high premium for this exclusivity, and they're the only company I know of who does such a thing.

 

You can confirm such a contract by talking to B&M personnel at IAPPA (Claude goes most often, or used to anyway), or even easier by talking to mid and upper-level management at BGE and KD. KD loves to tell people that they can't build B&M's.

 

I'm probably opening myself up to flame attacks by posting this, so please don't think I'm bragging, talking out of my a$$, or being a know-it-all. I know how passionate we enthusiasts are about coasters and the industry in general, and just thought I'd mention a couple of fun details. I don't know specific details on the 2010 KD coaster, just rumors I get told by KD employees...some of them old friends I used to work with who are still there and have moved up in the company.

 

SFA was supposed to install a B&M stand up in 01 but got batwing at the last minute because KD didn't want it so there goes that theory.

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Wow. I never thought this would happen to Kings Dominion. I'm VERY interested to see what this will turn out to be. To me the new track style looks like it is meant to use less steel but still be nice and strong. Less steel probably means less expense. As far as expectations go, I'm going to try my best to keep them low and just watch the construction as it goes. I've never been to Kings Dominion (or ANY of the parks on the east coast for that matter haha). I might need to plan a trip to Virginia next season.

 

Off topic but isnt SFoG considered to be in that "east coast" bracket?

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^LOL I always considered SFOG to be in the Deep South. I meant the parks that are in states bordering the atlantic.

 

EDIT: I just realized that Georgia borders the atlantic. Haha. Letting the subject go now.

 

The public school system fails yet again lol...

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Honestly, after I rode MF myself, I realized that a hyper could easily do what MF does esaily and maybe even better, 300 ft is just a gimmick IMO.

 

Problem with MF is that it doesn't use it's speed to it's advantage until that last bunny hop. The two big air time hills that everyone expects to be thrown out of could be just that if they were smaller allowing the speed to whip the trains over producing monsterous air.

 

I hope this coaster actually fufills the intentions of MF.

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Honestly, after I rode MF myself, I realized that a hyper could easily do what MF does esaily and maybe even better, 300 ft is just a gimmick IMO.

 

Problem with MF is that it doesn't use it's speed to it's advantage until that last bunny hop. The two big air time hills that everyone expects to be thrown out of could be just that if they were smaller allowing the speed to whip the trains over producing monsterous air.

 

I hope this coaster actually fufills the intentions of MF.

 

I'm not so sure that was the intention with MF. If you look on Intamin's website, under their listing for Giga Coasters, it reads...

 

he layout is characterised by steep hills and drops, high speed horizontal turns at, or tremendously close to, ground level and various over banked curves.

 

Nowhere does it mention air-time as an intended or featured element of this style of coaster. Conversely, under their description for Mega Coaster, the first thing it mentions about the layout is that it is designed for maximum air-time.

 

That's why I'm more curious about the KD coaster, but more excited about the heavily rumored B&M hyper going in at Carowinds.

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Honestly, after I rode MF myself, I realized that a hyper could easily do what MF does esaily and maybe even better, 300 ft is just a gimmick IMO.

 

Problem with MF is that it doesn't use it's speed to it's advantage until that last bunny hop. The two big air time hills that everyone expects to be thrown out of could be just that if they were smaller allowing the speed to whip the trains over producing monsterous air.

 

I hope this coaster actually fufills the intentions of MF.

 

I'm not so sure that was the intention with MF. If you look on Intamin's website, under their listing for Giga Coasters, it reads...

 

he layout is characterised by steep hills and drops, high speed horizontal turns at, or tremendously close to, ground level and various over banked curves.

 

Nowhere does it mention air-time as an intended or featured element of this style of coaster. Conversely, under their description for Mega Coaster, the first thing it mentions about the layout is that it is designed for maximum air-time.

 

That's why I'm more curious about the KD coaster, but more excited about the heavily rumored B&M hyper going in at Carowinds.

 

Thanks for pointing that out, what baffels me is that they want to be close to the ground, yet a 300ft coaster? hrmmm?

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