Kings Dominion (KD) Discussion Thread

[cal1br3tto]

I feel compelled to summarize how I feel...It's not original or anything, but I just want to get it out there.

 

First, most importantly. I expect to enjoy this ride. It's not like it's even physically possible for it to turn into a Dragon Wagon or something (regardless of joking)...I mean, the height, speed and layout have to mean something, regardless of modifications, right?

Is it possible that if I'd ridden a good selection of similar rides and then i305, I'd be disappointed? Of course it's possible, but I can't even begin to imagine. I've only ridden one hyper (Goliath "West"). I enjoyed it a lot. It's not considered that good. I stand by my current opinion, but I still realize it could be shaped by my lack of experience.

 

Second, I think what I'm getting from this debate is this. There is no proof that this is a mistake, but if it is, we as humans should understand, because every human and company makes mistakes. Is this off base?

 

Third, I have absolutely no problem with criticizing a ride. I don't think it "takes away from the fun" as some say; in fact, it adds to the fun for me. However, I personally judge rides based on how much fun I had on them. I don't really think about what business decisions went into making them that way. Again, is this off base? (Or stating the obvious...)

[robbalvey]

Hmm see I thought one of the reasons why your a coaster enthusiast is to understand why/how parks do things so saying "just sit back and enjoy the ride" is such a pointless comment.

Hmm see I thought that coaster enthusiast would want ACTUAL REAL INFORMATION from people who have worked in the theme park business. (Did I mention that I've worked in theme parks and entertainment for most of my life?) And I thought coaster enthiasts would appreciate given a bit of insight into why/how parks do things based on my actual experiences.

 

But apparently, it seems many of you would just rather listen to the comedic ramblings of a 17 year old that has no clue what they are talking about at all. My information doesn't come from my opinion, it comes from my work experience.

 

So, let's weight our options here.... opinions of a 17 year old speaking out of his a$$ on one hand...or comments based on more than 20 years of actual work experience from someone who currently works with many of these parks and ride manufactuers in question on the other.

 

Clearly the 17 year old knows what they are talking about!

 

--Robb "I only have so much patience until I finally just have to sit back and laugh my a$$ of at it." Alvey

Edited May 24, 2010 by robbalvey

[rider-x]

Wait a minute, engineers know more about the ride they are designing than Me????????

 

 

 

Rider-(I play reggae for a living) X

[Gerstlauer1]

WTF is wrong with: come to a park, enyoy it and have fun, stand in queue and F...... ride the Roller coaster AS IT IS!!!

Look have many pages you guys have used discussing, a F...... trim!!! they are not there for fun.

 

And in a way I think it is good with trims on I305, because of the chances to get a grey or black-out in the first turn.

There most be something with these "Drop and turn fast" layouts, because when i rode Piraten the Intamin Mega Lite in Djurs Sommerland, i actually greyed out.

 

That scares me Like in that sense of "This might actually be a little too much for me" (like Robb said)

[robbalvey]

Is the ride still operating without any downtime?

But Scott...that's just not important. Geez, man. I figured you'd know this by now.

[KDcoasterMAN]

I'm like Robb right now and sitting back, watching the coaster enthusiast community tear itself apart over insignificant matters and finding hilarity in it...

 

I'm a KDfanboy... But I'm not worked up over this...

[RollingRunner]

Trims wouldn't be a problem if so many coaster enthusiasts didn't black out.

I say we blame the community!

[Thom25]

Sorry to interrupt between the drama, but I have a question that I don't think been asked yet.

 

If they are trying to reduce the speed of the train during the first drop and it's the speed at the bottom that matters. Then why aren't they starting the brakes at the top so the coaster hangs a bit? I HATE starting a free fall and then getting interrupted in the middle of it -

 

I do also have to agree with Robb 200 % with his budgeting observation.

[robbalvey]

So you're saying it's designed to go through wheels daily? I'm sure the wheel manufactuer would love to believe that!!

Do you know what the projected maintenance budget for the ride was? Do you know how many wheels normal operation is supposed to go through? DO YOU???

 

No, of course you don't. And neither do I.

 

But all I'm saying is that somewhere out there exists a budget for this in a parks financial plan.

 

And somewhere out there exists a projected or suggested amount of maintenance from the manufacturer.

 

I have personally seen, and experienced projects where, even though these numbers DO match up, and the project IS on budget for what was projected, the buyer then raises the question AFTER development is complete "Can anything be done to reduce this cost?" And then the developer (in this case would be Intamin) makes their recommendations. It is then up to the park to act on that recommendation.

 

Let me put it in simpler terms.

 

Let's say you buy a car that, by the manufacturer's recommendation, suggests you put 92 Octane fuel in your car. After running your car for a month, you realize "well, even though I fully knew about this cost when I bought the car, can anything be done to lessen the cost?" And you ask the manufacturer "Can the car run on cheaper fuel?" And they respond "Yes, of course it can...but it might not run quite as fast or quite as efficient. It will save you money on gas, but it might not perform as we originally intended. But that's totally up to you, the owner of the car, if you want to save a bit of money and don't mind a slightly slower car from what was originally projected."

 

In this obscure example (only because YOU brought up the subject of the wheels specifically, and no one actually really knows for sure that is specific reason why the trims were put on the ride in the first place), the car would be I305, and the "fuel" would be the wheels.

 

And just to make sure I'm clear about this, I am speaking from *actual* experience having dealt with *real* developers in these types of situations. I'm not just speculating or making this stuff up. I have REAL PROFESSIONAL EXPERIENCE dealing with these same kinds of issues. I'm not saying that this is what is happening with I305, I'm just putting it out there that it is a *REAL POSSIBILITY.*

Actually, I just was reminded of this...

 

CASE IN POINT!

 

Six Flags Magic Mountain openly admits that Superman: The Escape runs at about 82MPH instead of the 100MPH that it was originally designed to. They also have admitted that the reason why they do this has nothing to do with the original design of the ride, but it's to save on maintenance costs. At our recent West Coast Bash, the general manager of the park said "I could make Superman go 100MPH right now if I wanted to" but it is totally at the parks discretion to run it slower.

 

This is not a fault of the ride manufacturer in any way. It's the parks decision.

 

Again, I'm just sharing this information with all of you so that you can have a better understanding how/why parks do things. And when you then later go and post your opinions and comments, they can be based on some accurate information, not absurd speculations.

 

--Robb "Just trying to educate the enthusiast community so we don't look like a bunch of doofuses to the parks." Alvey

Edited May 24, 2010 by robbalvey

[Columbia]

What shouldn't be overlooked is that this is Intamin's second coaster in the States that required major* modifications after installation.

I also want to make sure it's not overlooked that this has happened a *LOT* with different manufacturers over the years...not just Intamin...

 

For example, all of the Arrow "big three" multiloopers (Viper, Shockwave, GASM) had to have their vertical loops completely re-designed and replaced. All of the early Premier LIM launchers (Mr. Freezes, Outer Limits, Chiller, Jinx, etc) all needed to have their trains re-modified, Zonga's inversions had to be completely re-designed, Rattler's drop had to be re-profiled, all the Deja Vu's...delayed about 6 months, Hypersonic was so bad that it didn't even last 10 years...do we even want to get into what happened to Son of Beast???

 

So in the grand scheme of roller coaster design f**k ups, all of a sudden Maverick's heartline and i305's trim don't look so bad now, does it?

 

--Robb "Just trying to put things back into perspective here..." Alvey

 

Touche, Senor Alvey!

 

do we even want to get into what happened to Son of Beast???

 

Nah - I'm still recovering from the headache I got riding it in 2008! And don't get me started with Zonga - ugh. Two rides were enough for a lifetime.

[PKI Jizzman]

What, Son of Beast?

 

We'll trade it for I305! It doesn't have any trims! KD fanboys would go crazy about that, right?

[hobbit]

Does anyone ride Intimidator with and without trims?

can you tell it what was better?

[robbalvey]

Does anyone ride Intimidator with and without trims?

can you tell it what was better?

Please do me a favor and READ the last 10-15 pages of this thread. (I know it will make your head explode, but please try)

 

There have already been at least three (if not more) reports from people who have ridden it before/after the trims and given their reviews.

 

Most of them say it's not that big of a deal.

 

--Robb

[SharkTums]

Oh man, turns out there are forces even more evil than the Intamin Cable causing all of this Intimidator trouble!!!!

The Intamin Cable has joined Team Smokey to take on Trimless coasters across the world!

Edited May 24, 2010 by SharkTums

[Homeboy23]

We'll trade it for I305! It doesn't have any trims! KD fanboys would go crazy about that, right?

 

 

This trim issue has almost made the thread as popular as the announcement day of the ride. And we all knew how that went.

[Hercules]

I'm just sitting around waiting what word filter Robb is going to put in for "trims".

[eddie200330]

Does anyone ride Intimidator with and without trims?

can you tell it what was better?

 

Most of them say it's not that big of a deal.

 

--Robb

 

I find this hard to believe, all of these pages over a hunk of metal making life easier must be some kind of biga$$ deal LMAO....

 

I find myself falling into the group that says "300+ ' is still a damn good ride" It could've been worse.... NO COASTER AT ALL!!!

[Meteornotes]

 

This would be the greatest TV show ever...

 

dt

[Tbcoasterfan]

On a side note from all this comedy...

That new test seat DOES look awesome. That would be a nice addition to Maverick.

[Capitalize]

^ Hmm see I thought one of the reasons why your a coaster enthusiast is to understand why/how parks do things so saying "just sit back and enjoy the ride" is such a pointless comment.

Yes, but not to criticize the park/ manufacture for every little change they do to a ride. People make it sound like 2012 came early.

 

If i were to go by a few of your guys statements ... i would consider every B&M that has a trim a bad design, because if they were to design the ride correctly (according to some of you ) they wouldn't need trims. With making hypers for 11 years you would think they would be able to design it w/o trims.

 

Of course that's completely discounting the number and placement of those trims, which B&M designs quite well. Let me know when the vast majority of the first drop on a B&M hyper is covered in permanent brakes.

 

Knocking down straw-men sure is fun, though.

[Hydraglow]

CASE IN POINT!

 

Six Flags Magic Mountain openly admits that Superman: The Escape runs at about 82MPH instead of the 100MPH that it was originally designed to. They also have admitted that the reason why they do this has nothing to do with the original design of the ride, but it's to save on maintenance costs. At our recent West Coast Bash, the general manager of the park said "I could make Superman go 100MPH right now if I wanted to" but it is totally at the parks discretion to run it slower.

 

This is not a fault of the ride manufacturer in any way. It's the parks decision.

 

Again, I'm just sharing this information with all of you so that you can have a better understanding how/why parks do things. And when you then later go and post your opinions and comments, they can be based on some accurate information, not absurd speculations.

 

--Robb "Just trying to educate the enthusiast community so we don't look like a bunch of doofuses to the parks." Alvey

 

A perfect example of a post that should diffuse this whole banter about the park's decision.

 

Everyone who reads this and doesn't understand why the trims have been placed on Intimidator, I kindly invite you to read it again. Still confused? Read it again. Have a question? Read it again. Want to argue? Read it again. There is honestly no point in arguing with each other about a matter that, well, doesn't matter. Park's decision, end of story.

 

(Maybe after reading it multiple times, people will finally realize the bigger picture.)

Edited June 2, 2010 by Hydraglow

[Skycoastin Steve]

I expected a pitiful meltdown from the GP-infested craphouse that is kdfansite, but this is most troublesome to see it at a site where I thought there was an overtone of maturity.

 

Everyone who is upset over this, just get over it. It doesn't matter whose fault it is, it doesn't matter why the park put the trims on there, and it doesn't matter if it makes it the worst ride EVAR now. The park is going to look out for #1, that's the long and the short of it. I'm as much of a coaster enthusiast as anyone else, but ya know what? This isn't life and death, it's theme parks and thrill rides. I could sit here and type out the things that are more important than theme parks and thrill rides, but I don't have that kind of time.

 

Just get over it.

[robbalvey]

I expected a pitiful meltdown from the GP-infested craphouse that is kdfansite, but this is most troublesome to see it at a site where I thought there was an overtone of maturity.

Agreed. And worst part is, I've now deleted about 20 posts that we EVEN WORSE than some of the stuff that remains and two people have been given a one week "time out" for some of their outbursts.

 

--Robb "A bit disappointed in some of our members...but doing our best to keep things light hearted and informative." Alvey

Edited May 24, 2010 by robbalvey

[robbalvey]

FYI - All posts from now on that are nothing but bickering about other people's bickering posts will be deleted. If you want to discuss the ride or the park, that's fine, but if you're going to argue about other people's arguements, take it to another, lesser quality theme park forum.

 

Thank you!

 

--Robb "Deleted yet ANOTHER post!" Alvey

Edited May 24, 2010 by robbalvey

[Skycoastin Steve]

I'm glad to say that I'll be able to report on just how bad the trim truly is in a week. I'll be there next Tuesday thanks to KD going daily a week earlier than scheduled. If the rumors of the restraints changing prove to be true, then the new ride experience will be pretty interesting.