Kings Dominion (KD) Discussion Thread

[Columbia]

Wouldn't it make more sense to just slow down the lift hill? I think it would considering it's going 20 miles an hour.

 

You would think that could help...but after a bit of experimenting and math work, turns out it really doesn't matter. It's all about potential and kinetic energy.

 

Regardless of how fast the ride is going on the lift, it still has the exact same potential energy, (because of the height of the drop) and will be converted at *almost* the same rate during that plummet.

 

If you want to try for yourself - just make a simple coaster in RCT, with a long straightaway at the bottom of the first hill. Modify the lift speed and see what the top speed is - it's nearly identical at a 20mph lift, 10mph and 5. (Mine had a variance of approximately 1.5mph.

 

The eddy current brakes do not allow potential energy to be as easily converted into kinetic, thereby "holding" and "slowing" the train. Still looks freaking awesome, though.

 

Why couldn't they have taught us physics stuff all via coasters? I'd pass with flying colors. (BTW, full disclosure...I got a C in HS Physics, take it with what you will.)

 

Not to rub it in anyone's face...but...I seem to remember commenting on how those transitions looked way too fast on media day and that they seemed a bit too much *cough* Robb *cough*

 

What shouldn't be overlooked is that this is Intamin's second coaster in the States that required major* modifications after installation. (#1 was Maverick and it's missing heartline) The difference being that Maverick never had actual GP on it before the mod. (I believe) Don't get me wrong, I'm all for pushing the limits...just maybe with nudges and pokes first.

 

*Significant track work or mods

[themeparkman25]

Deleted by author

Edited January 20, 2011 by themeparkman25

[coasterkyle]

Intimidator gets trimmed and life goes on.

for most people yes, but for most KD fanboys its like the world stopped turning and CF is doing this just to piss them off... quite hilarious to watch.

[robbalvey]

What shouldn't be overlooked is that this is Intamin's second coaster in the States that required major* modifications after installation.

I also want to make sure it's not overlooked that this has happened a *LOT* with different manufacturers over the years...not just Intamin...

 

For example, all of the Arrow "big three" multiloopers (Viper, Shockwave, GASM) had to have their vertical loops completely re-designed and replaced. All of the early Premier LIM launchers (Mr. Freezes, Outer Limits, Chiller, Jinx, etc) all needed to have their trains re-modified, Zonga's inversions had to be completely re-designed, Rattler's drop had to be re-profiled, all the Deja Vu's...delayed about 6 months, Hypersonic was so bad that it didn't even last 10 years...do we even want to get into what happened to Son of Beast???

 

So in the grand scheme of roller coaster design f**k ups, all of a sudden Maverick's heartline and i305's trim don't look so bad now, does it?

 

--Robb "Just trying to put things back into perspective here..." Alvey

Edited May 24, 2010 by robbalvey

[HerBlackWings]

First ovah-the-shouldahs, now trims. I won't go out of my way for this one. I had such high hopes for King's Dominion, this would've been my ONLY reason for returning. If speed is most important, I'll just go back and ride Millenium Force...with THOSE trains. ;D

[coastercub]

WTF !!!

 

Ok I've not ridden it, and not likely too for a little while but on principle I hate the fact it's been trimmed. I'm sure the reason's are valid but yet again it's the few who complain spoil it for the rest of us who want to experience the full on extreme ride... It'll still be a fantastic ride just not as flowing as it was intended !

[A-kid]

Ohh poor Intrimidator. Thats nearly 100ft long!! You can literally see it pulling HARD on the train in the clip a few pages back. Oh well. Just a giant Th13teen. Moving on...

 

I don't see why some enthusiasts seem to see themselves a separate kind, as far as opinions. The general public includes us really, its just the everyday guests don't know or care for knowing the terminology or the technical details. Really opinions will be similar across the board. Guests may noticed the trim, the shunt of that trim and get the same disappointment that it wasn't as grand as they had hoped. But they will move on, because there are other fun rides and attractions to enjoy and if they leave with a smile on their face, happy with the day out thats all that matters.

 

At the end of the day the park will do whatever to cover their arses. They don't want a court case because someone believed they were injured on the ride. They want to avoid bad press such as that. A trim will be a minor inconvenience to them when they can still market it in the same way and get the punters through the gate, while keeping the ride as safe as possible. It could of been due to the trains, like Maverick more that the riders aswell. If its ripping the trains apart with the G load, it will cause maintainance issues, and thus downtime, onto potential loss in revenue because guests have canceled trips or the costly fact that the trains cost a bomb to repair. An example of cost, I can't remember perfectly, but a set of Intamin wheels cost in the region of £60,000 - £80,000 for one set on Stealth. I can't imagine what the whole train must cost. There is no way they can leave it running like it was with any of those factors anyway was the main point.

 

Then theres the design argument, but I'm not going into that...

[Thom25]

I think we should also point out B&M's Mantis at CP with a trim on it's drop as well. Believe me, I'm just as bummed about this as everyone else, and very glad I went opening day. With that said, I also think this is a work in progress, with the trims being changed or moved over time. As I recall it took CP three years to "fix" Magnum.

[pkdcoaster]

Montu also, cause the batwing was so powerful.

IMO there is a big difference in B&M's from the 90's & 00's. Now every major B&M has trims EVERYWHERE in case their calculations were wrong.

 

JEFF

[coasterjohnh]

You said that it took 3 years to fix magnum, well there is nothing like them turning off all the breaks throughout the ride on coastermania .

[Josh Linn]

In the video, the ride appears to still be hauling some serious ass, so I'm definitely not as bummed/concerned as I was previously.

[Homeboy23]

Man this thread sure blew up since I last checked it last night

 

Since my place of work is making us take a furlough day on Friday I will be able to finally try out the trimmed drop. Still think it will be one of my favorite rides and people are overreacting.

[BeemerBoy]

Cons: A few trims, little less intensity in certain spots

 

Pros: It's still not another cookie cutter B&M hyper (hi,Carowinds)

[ajm1240]

Word around the park is that the change was made not for guests complaints or concerns, but because it was throwing wheels on a daily basis, only running 3 days a week. 7 day operation starts next week and they need the wheels to last longer. Apparently many still get the grey out along the first turn.

[sixflagsguy5]

I was at the park on Sunday and rode I305 for the first time. I noticed the trims on the first drop but mainly because I was expecting them. The first drop has good airtime in the back car (row 15) and doesn't really decelerate that much. Basically the trims cause the remaining portion of the first drop to maintain a constant speed rather than accelerating. There is still a lot of blacking out on the first turn after the drop. For me it was mainly in the 2nd half of the turn and entering into the bunny hill. If this ride were any more intense in the first turn I would not like it at all. I am very happy that they added the trims, because it makes the ride experience much better. The first bunny hill would have much more airtime without the trims, but what's the point of getting airtime while you're stick partially blacked out?

 

Really the only solution to keeping the maximum airtime on the first bunny hill is to pull the trims and make the radius of the first turn larger. I don't think this is an option because of the location of Rebel Yell and because they already have invested $25 million into this ride. Why go through all the trouble and add costs to satisfy a small number of people? I do think this ride would be top 5 with this change.

 

Besides that I was really impressed with the park as a whole. They still have a very controlled method of walking everyone through the park at opening and most staff members were very nice. It stormed for an hour on Sunday, resulting in one train operations on most rides after the storm (except Volcano and Flight of Fear). The park should figure out a way to run two trains in the rain, like Carowinds did with Intimidator after rain. However this is a problem for all of their parks, so it might take awhile. This is still one of my favorite parks and I am glad that Cedar Fair has kept it in good shape.

 

Lastly, does anyone else think that the park should tear out Anaconda? The ride isn't all that great and takes up that entire lake space. They could fit a much better coaster in that space and actually utilize the lake besides having just a tunnel and some over the water aerials.

[rcg19]

Deleted by user

Edited December 29, 2010 by rcg19

[Hydraglow]

Pros: It's still not another cookie cutter B&M hyper.

 

Exactly.

 

Hmm, let's put something into perspective. Why would they do this? Well first off, they wouldn't just do it, to do it, now would they. There are specific reasons, and it's the park's decision to do whatever they want with their ride. They realize it may detract from the experience on certain aspects of the ride, but who cares? They are doing it for it's own good. So for all the people who are exploding because they want the trims removed, tough. The park sees their own future better than you. Get over it.

 

And besides, the ending did improve, correct? Stop looking at what they should have done and start looking at things that they did not do. They invested in such a great Intamin creation, that will be good no matter how you slice it, and is better than a whole bunch of other rides out there. Be glad they were brave enough to get such an insane roller coaster in the first place.

 

And this is where BeemerBoy's quote comes in up top...

[RoCo]

Put me down as another enthusiast who would rather see a ride slightly tamed to go on and live a long, healthy life, than a ride that burns itself out before its time (Eagle Fortress... )

 

Still can't wait for August!

 

And leave Anaconda!!!

[DC High Heat]

If you've had experience designing rides for 30 years, and you currently are using cutting-edge technology to design rides that are up to 450' tall and 150 mph, shouldn't you be held to a bit of a higher standard than designers from Arrow 30 years ago, or Premier 13 years ago? I understand designs sometimes don't work as anticipated, especially when pushing some limits, but I really don't think some of those references and comparisons are all that valid. When dealing with a ride that isn't all *that* different in pacing from Millennium Force, and having 10 years of additional experience, I really think you should be able to get it right.

 

Anyways, I expect they'll work things out and the ride will get better with time. I wouldn't be surprised to see the number or location of trims change up after the (rumored, I guess?) wheel issue is resolved. The ride looked amazing to me to start out with, and still looks like a lot of fun (despite the fact that, judging from the pacing over the first 150' hill, it seems to now have just a bit over 200' worth of speed instead of the 300' worth from before). I think I'll wait it out a bit and see what happens, then eventually I'll go enjoy it for myself.

[BeemerBoy]

If you've had experience designing rides for 30 years, and you currently are using cutting-edge technology to design rides that are up to 450' tall and 150 mph, shouldn't you be held to a bit of a higher standard than designers from Arrow 30 years ago, or Premier 13 years ago? I understand designs sometimes don't work as anticipated, especially when pushing some limits, but I really don't think some of those references and comparisons are all that valid. When dealing with a ride that isn't all *that* different in pacing from Millennium Force, and having 10 years of additional experience, I really think you should be able to get it right.

 

 

Toyota has been making cars since 1936. Chevy, since 1911. Ford, 1903.They've all had numerous recalls over the last century. How is Intamin different?

[larrygator]

Regardless of how fast the ride is going on the lift, it still has the exact same potential energy, (because of the height of the drop) and will be converted at *almost* the same rate during that plummet.

 

I'm glad someone brought this up again as my days in Physics Class were over 25 years ago, but that was what I remember. This same argument came up when they slowed down the chain lift on El Toro and hundrerds of rides later I still feel no difference on the El Toro drop.

[Hercules]

^ I am glad that someone brought that up too. I never really understood the argument that slowing down the chain would cause that big of a difference based on that principle. Either people bring it up as an end all solution to not having to put in trims, or they get up in arms about a lift being slowed down. It isn't that big of a deal, and physics proves it.

[BRTeller]

If you've had experience designing rides for 30 years, and you currently are using cutting-edge technology to design rides that are up to 450' tall and 150 mph, shouldn't you be held to a bit of a higher standard than designers from Arrow 30 years ago, or Premier 13 years ago? I understand designs sometimes don't work as anticipated, especially when pushing some limits, but I really don't think some of those references and comparisons are all that valid. When dealing with a ride that isn't all *that* different in pacing from Millennium Force, and having 10 years of additional experience, I really think you should be able to get it right.

 

 

Toyota has been making cars since 1936. Chevy, since 1911. Ford, 1903.They've all had numerous recalls over the last century. How is Intamin different?

 

It's true that every company has its flaws. But just because those companies have had mis-steps, doesn't make it right or ok. All it means is that they should have been more careful, or not so careless. All those car companies have also been held accountable for a lot of their mistakes. I feel Intamin should also. Since this obviously isn't the first mistake, or even the first this year.

 

Now that does not mean that I think it was a bad idea adding the trims. I saw this problem right from the beginning from an "amateur" point of view. I saw it with Maverick also. All of these problems can be seen from lots of coaster enthusiasts, and other people alike. So I don't see much of an excuse on why they keep happening. I could go on, and on listing all the things recently what Intamins done wrong, but the majority of the people here already know the issues. Now, don't get me wrong. Intamin has done plenty right. But since they are the professionals, not us, they should be expected too. So one mistake here and there is fine by all means. If they were more careful, they shouldn't have any problem giving us the extreme. While keeping their rides somewhat reliable, while not designing rides that will have problems like Maverick, I305, and even Shoot the Rapids.

 

-Brandon

Edited May 24, 2010 by BRTeller

[robbalvey]

If you've had experience designing rides for 30 years, and you currently are using cutting-edge technology to design rides that are up to 450' tall and 150 mph, shouldn't you be held to a bit of a higher standard than designers from Arrow 30 years ago, or Premier 13 years ago? I understand designs sometimes don't work as anticipated, especially when pushing some limits, but I really don't think some of those references and comparisons are all that valid. When dealing with a ride that isn't all *that* different in pacing from Millennium Force, and having 10 years of additional experience, I really think you should be able to get it right.

 

 

Toyota has been making cars since 1936. Chevy, since 1911. Ford, 1903.They've all had numerous recalls over the last century. How is Intamin different?

I couldn't agree more. And of top of all of this, you have to remember that engineering is NOT an exact science. Especially when rides like Intimidator keep pushing envelopes and trying new and different things. If this was the 10th Intimiator 305 clone built and they were having issues with, I'd say your points *might* be valid. But since that's not the case I have to just assume you don't quite understand how engineering or the construction of heavy machinery works. Hell, *I* don't even understand it, and I get at least this much!

 

I saw this problem right from the beginning. I saw it with Maverick also. All of these problems can be seen from lots of coaster enthusiasts, and other people alike. So I don't see much of an excuse on why they keep happening.

 

LMFAO!!!! Please tell me you're not saying that you saw these issues before the professional engineers at Intamin or the parks maintenance staff and because YOU can see it and they can't you automatically know more than these people who do this kind of thing for a living???

 

If this is actually what you are implying then this could be the funniest thing I've read on TPR in a very long time!

 

 

I guess parks should hire you as a consultant to let them know of other mistakes they could be making on rides before millions of dollars is spent and inexcusable mistakes are made.

 

 

--Robb "If they were having issues with a Batman: The Ride clone, then I might understand the point you're trying to make." Alvey

Edited May 24, 2010 by robbalvey

[BRTeller]

Robb, my point was that these people should know what there doing because there doing this for their living. Taking one thing I said out of context doesn't make me wrong. I said I saw these problems from an amateur point of view. Which means I just assumed that Intimidator 305 would be to intense, or that Mavericks twist was taken at speeds to high. Not that I knew these problems, or the exact specifics. I'm also just saying that this is somewhat of a trend of Intamin as of late.

Edited May 24, 2010 by BRTeller