defrocker Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 Are those official ridership numbers? I would honestly think Dominator would be #1 in the park due to it's capacity since Volcano struggles in that department and I305 runs 1 train on slow days. Same here. Also doesn't KD have a train? That would probably be in the top 5-6 there. No train... Sadly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coasterbill Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 Are those official ridership numbers? I would honestly think Dominator would be #1 in the park due to it's capacity since Volcano struggles in that department and I305 runs 1 train on slow days. Same here. Also doesn't KD have a train? That would probably be in the top 5-6 there. I believe they got rid of it, but yeah those numbers don't add up. When I think of High Capacity rides at KD I think of things like Drop Tower, Dominator and Rebel Yell if they actually ran both sides on a frequent basis. Hell I wouldn't even be shocked if Eiffel Tower is ahead of Volcano (though again they usually only run one elevator so maybe not). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
super7 Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 Are those official ridership numbers? I would honestly think Dominator would be #1 in the park due to it's capacity since Volcano struggles in that department and I305 runs 1 train on slow days. Same here. Also doesn't KD have a train? That would probably be in the top 5-6 there. No train, no cable skyway, no monorail. All removed by Paramount. I believe the lack of rides like this at KD plus the light schedule of live shows is why they struggle with attendance. The parking lot has been about 1/4 full in my visits there, including peak season. The park has a good number of (mediocre) coasters, a small collection of flat rides and a lot of kiddie rides, plus the waterpark that is included in admission. It has gorgeous parts, especially the entrance, but other parts of the park are not that nice where they have removed trees (the former Wayne's World area) and where they have removed water (the water park used to be a stunning giant lake). IMO the different groups of management went the wrong direction with mostly coaster additions to the park, while removing true family rides. Busch Gardens seems to do much better on attendance, with less coasters and more of the other stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coasterbill Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 Is there any evidence at all to support the idea that Kings Dominion struggles with attendance? I understand that enthusiasts have all been saying this long enough that they now consider it to be 100% factual but is there any real reason to believe this is the case? I mean, unless it's a Saturday Carowinds is pretty much walk-on city except for the water park, the mouse and Nighthawk but all you hear about is how thrilled they are with Carowinds and they keep pumping money into it. I feel like enthusiasts go to parks, look at the lengths of ride lines and decide that that means the park is struggling for attendance but that's really not a fair way to assess anything. Hell Dorney never has lines for anything in the dry park and never has but clearly they're doing just fine or they would have been out of business decades ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
defrocker Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 I don't know that there is any hard evidence. I think it's mainly looking at the patterns. As one of my home parks I have been almost every year since probably 1998 or so. I feel like I haven't seen the days of waiting in long lines for the bigger attractions recently, however, I have tried to time my visits to where I wouldn't be facing the crowds. All of this is just my unofficial observations though. I feel most people just see the recent lack of Corporate Spending at KD as a sign of stagnated or drooping attendance. However, it could be, simply that CF has seen that with or without investment the annual attendance stays consistent, or at other parks new attractions are boosting attendance more and giving greater ROI. TL:DR All "evidence" is Empirical and we don't have hard numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
defrocker Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 I feel like enthusiasts go to parks, look at the lengths of ride lines and decide that that means the park is struggling for attendance but that's really not a fair way to assess anything. True, I mean, for years my family took trips to BGW and we always went on a Wednesday. I, personally, have never seen that park crowded. Walk-ons to 5 minutes for everything almost every time I have ever been. By my observation, the park shouldn't be in business anymore. But my observation is skewed to one visit in the middle of the week about every other year... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coasterbill Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 ^^That's kind of what I figured. If you think about it though, 15 years ago what rides had long lines? There was no Dominator, Windseeker, Delirium, Drop Tower or I305 (capacity monsters), the park was littered with amazingly low capacity rides that were always going to have a line (and there was less to choose from). Volcano was always a low capacity ride and it opened at half capacity, Hypersonic always had a line but it also only held 8 people per car and Flight of Fear always had a line (and still does) but it's another low capacity ride. Shockwave took forever to load and had low capacity, that had a line and rides like Hurler, Rebel Yell, Grizzly, Avalanche and Anaconda never had lines to begin with. I think it's entirely plausible that the reason wait times have gone down is because they have higher capacity rides now and they have more rides to help spread people out. Every ride that people remember as "Having a long line" also had / has miserable capacity that would create long lines even on slow days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
defrocker Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 The amount of rides that have actually been added to the park in the past 10-15 years is pretty impressive. Drop Tower, Crypt, Hypersonic, Ferris wheel, Windseeker, Ricochet, Dominator, Intimidator, Delirium. You certainly see reason for the crowd to spread out among the rides. Also, the waterpark has been added in this time frame which sucks in people. I've only been to it once and it was a mosh pit, just like Dorney and Carowinds. I swear parks investing in waterparks over the past decade like we've seen is the best decision they can make, even if I don't really care for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowboard83 Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 Fyi.. Not a swing and a miss. I'm talking about in the eyes of the GP. It could be debated that Millennium Force is the most popular rollercoaster on the planet and Maverick is universally loved by GP and enthusiasts. When they married the two, they only achieved mass amounts of love from the enthusiasts whereas the GP didn't respond quite like they had hoped. I305 may have brought in more attendance. I'm not going to argue that. What it does not have though is the ridership. What we have seen is CF no longer doing business with Intamin after I305. What we haven't seen is anything like this being built in the years since. And these reasons are why I'm saying it was a miss. Because of these reasons are why I'm almost certain we will not see a ride like this in the US in the foreseeable future. I'd love to be wrong, but currently the signs don't point to that being the case. Like I said, I like the ride. You can love the ride, many of us do. But that doesn't mean it hit the mark like they hoped. Intamin isn't used as much as it was before because of reliability, maintenance and design flaws. KD knew what they were getting into when they saw the design and then approved said design. Intamin was likely chosen because they would go where other designers would not in terms of intensity. And don't forget in the late 2000s, KD was being marketed as "coaster capital of the Mid Atlantic." They were going for the extreme. They got it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GCS Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 I definitely agree about the water parks, they really boost business. I have a client who is a vendor at KD and has been for some 15-16 years now. Just about a year ago he was finally allowed to expand into the water park side of KD for his business and all I can tell you is that his business tripled by adding a location in the water park. Over the summer that's where the people are, outside of the summer they come back into the ride side of the park. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbalvey Posted August 30, 2016 Author Share Posted August 30, 2016 (edited) Intamin isn't used as much as it was before because of reliability, maintenance and design flaws OMG, I can't stand these ignorant stupid comments by coaster nerds that know absolutely nothing about what they are talking about. Spare us your idiotic "expert" knowledge and write about something you know about because it clearly isn't about roller coasters or theme park operations. Edited August 30, 2016 by robbalvey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowboard83 Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 Intamin isn't used as much as it was before because of reliability, maintenance and design flaws OMG, I can't stand these ignorant stupid comments by coaster nerds that know absolutely nothing about what they are talking about. Spare us your idiotic "expert" knowledge and write about something you know about because it clearly isn't about roller coasters or theme park operations. Ok?? Robb im sure you know a lot, but so do I. I just dont run a site. I have connections in parks. So do you. Shouldnt you pick on a person that says i305 was a failure, KD is going out of business etc? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
defrocker Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 Intamin isn't used as much as it was before because of reliability, maintenance and design flaws OMG, I can't stand these ignorant stupid comments by coaster nerds that know absolutely nothing about what they are talking about. Spare us your idiotic "expert" knowledge and write about something you know about because it clearly isn't about roller coasters or theme park operations. Out of curiosity, why haven't we really seen Intamin installations stateside in the past 5 years or so? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImNotOneOfYou Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 If my memory can be trusted, I remember Robb saying that Intamin roller coasters in Europe are very reliable because of the way the ride operators are trained or something like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbalvey Posted August 30, 2016 Author Share Posted August 30, 2016 (edited) Intamin isn't used as much as it was before because of reliability, maintenance and design flaws OMG, I can't stand these ignorant stupid comments by coaster nerds that know absolutely nothing about what they are talking about. Spare us your idiotic "expert" knowledge and write about something you know about because it clearly isn't about roller coasters or theme park operations. Out of curiosity, why haven't we really seen Intamin installations stateside in the past 5 years or so? So giant record breaking rides like The Orlando Eye, Falcon's Fury or Zumanjaro don't count for some reason??? Sorry, I just have no time for stupid people anymore. Edited August 30, 2016 by robbalvey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
defrocker Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 I mean rollercoasters. We just haven't seen much as of recent. Wasn't really sure why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbalvey Posted August 30, 2016 Author Share Posted August 30, 2016 (edited) I mean rollercoasters. We just haven't seen much as of recent. Wasn't really sure why. Wait... so you mean Intamin ONLY MAKES ROLLER COASTERS?!?!? I banned you once after your first idiotic comment. Then I decided to un-ban you to give you another chance...and you just blew it. As I said, I have no time for stupid people anymore. If you're going to make a post without actually doing any research like "why haven't we seen any Intamin installations recently?" when they have recently made at least three FUCKINGHUGERIDES and then you go on to discount that information like it actually doesn't count towards anything, sorry, but you're stupid, and I won't let you make stupid comments like that on our forums anymore... --Robb "Making an honest effort to weed out the idiots." Alvey ps. Oh, and to answer the question, maybe we haven't seen any roller coasters because Intamin has been ... i don't know... REALLY BUSY making other FUCKINGHUGERIDES like Taron & Flying Aces along with a bunch of other stuff for parks??? I mean, why did B&M only build one coaster in the US in 2014? Or zero in the US in 2011??? Oh, man there MUST be something wrong with B&M if they aren't building mass amounts of roller coasters stateside every single year! Seriously, how completely STUPID does that sound???? Please, I know it's really hard for some of you, but please keep the ignorant comments off our forum. If you don't know what you're talking about. Don't talk. Edited August 30, 2016 by robbalvey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill_s Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 Considering that Cedar Fair has built 2 gigas since I305, I don't think you can say they're against the concept of big "statement" rides. That B&M could build them may be all it took to get them away from Intamin. With them owning 4 out of the 5 gigas in the whole world, yeah they might wait a while and see if anyone else starts catching up ... and that would probably be true no matter how successful they consider them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BotanicalStig Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 B&M, who has been on a roll lately with Cedar Fair, isn't building anything new for CF this year. I guess Cedar Fair is fed up with them too. Cedar Fair will only build GCI's and refurb flats from now on it seems, only to use B&M for train replacements on those shitty coasters That said, I do wish Intamin was selling more coasters in the US. Maybe the parks don't like them, maybe CF got a deal to order multiple rides from B&m, maybe Intamin is too busy with other projects- but that doesn't really matter. B&M was their big supplier the past few years, we don't know why, but that's what made sense for them. I'm tired of seeing people talk about it like Intamin does a shitty job and ruins everything they touch. When intamin reliability is brought up, the only problems I can think of are the extraordinarily complicated launch systems having more downtime and maintenence than simple launch systems. Rides like Maverick and California Screamin' are some of the most successful installations at their respected parks... not to mention so many others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superbatboy Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 The company that works with Intamin's launch systems has 3 products listed for 2017 in the U.S. Not sure if that means for sure it's Intamin or if another company could be using them. However, I was able to match several of the products listed on the site to actual Intamin launch coasters. Like for instance there are two products listed back from 2007 in the U.S. which would correlate to Maverick... one at 1000kva (lift hill) and another for 3200 kva (tunnel launch). On the site as well, the very last product listed for the U.S. was 2011 which would correlate to Cheetah Hunt, the last Intamin launch coaster in the U.S. Again, not sure how accurate this website is, but it seems like a lot of things correlate even with the overseas launch coasters in Turkey, Dubai, etc; Here's the site: http://www.indrivetec.ch/en/references/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayj Posted September 11, 2016 Share Posted September 11, 2016 Does anyone find it strange that all of the gigas in North America made the top 10 at the golden ticket awards except i305? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smallpox Posted September 11, 2016 Share Posted September 11, 2016 Does anyone find it strange that all of the gigas in North America made the top 10 at the golden ticket awards except i305? golden ticket awards are super dumb? i think everyone knows i305 is one of the top 3 to 5 coasters in the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanTPM Posted September 11, 2016 Share Posted September 11, 2016 ^^^That is a very interesting find, i don't believe that we've had a launch coaster announced yet for the USA in 2017, so it does seem there is one multi launch one coming or a few. It does seem that the website is up to date and accurate as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScreaminNewEngland Posted September 12, 2016 Share Posted September 12, 2016 Did anyone see screamscape lately..... There's rumors That they're removing the flume for a launched wing coaster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Password121 Posted September 12, 2016 Share Posted September 12, 2016 Did anyone see screamscape lately.....There's rumors That they're removing the flume for a launched wing coaster. screamscape... rumors rumors spewed bullsh*t Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now