Kings Dominion (KD) Discussion Thread

[jarmor]

KD has an AWESOME planet snoppy area. It would be nice if they can have as many adult/family flats as they have kids flats. KD doesn't need a new coaster, to compete with the two parks that have more flats than KD they have to build up their arsenal. They have like what . . . 6 adult/family flat rides? Busch gardens has about that much in just the italy section of the park. If you guys havrnt notice, a lot of park chains realize coaster after coaster isn't helping the ROI bottom line. I know I know, people get tired of riding the same coasters when they go. Well, take in one of the park shows. Take a stroll thru dinos alive. Spend some time in the water park.

 

I would rather see the food get MUCH BETTER at KD before a coaster. What's the point of having new coaster after new coaster when no one wants to spend money on your food, where the real money comes in at. You pay every time you eat, not every time you ride a coaster. Universal and disney have figured it out. Unique food offerings and good overall quality in food and merchandise is what brings in the bucks.

[madmax]

KD has an AWESOME planet snoppy area. It would be nice if they can have as many adult/family flats as they have kids flats. KD doesn't need a new coaster, to compete with the two parks that have more flats than KD they have to build up their arsenal. They have like what . . . 6 adult/family flat rides? Busch gardens has about that much in just the italy section of the park. If you guys havrnt notice, a lot of park chains realize coaster after coaster isn't helping the ROI bottom line. I know I know, people get tired of riding the same coasters when they go. Well, take in one of the park shows. Take a stroll thru dinos alive. Spend some time in the water park.

 

I would rather see the food get MUCH BETTER at KD before a coaster. What's the point of having new coaster after new coaster when no one wants to spend money on your food, where the real money comes in at. You pay every time you eat, not every time you ride a coaster. Universal and disney have figured it out. Unique food offerings and good overall quality in food and merchandise is what brings in the bucks.

 

Carowinds did both a coaster and improved food in one year. Seems plausable.

[Tee1999]

Is kd the one of the least visited cedar fair park? If not then can someone post a list of the most and least visited cedar parks?

 

As of 2014...

 

Source.

 

I've thought cedar point would've been the most visited park.. not CW

[madmax]

Is kd the one of the least visited cedar fair park? If not then can someone post a list of the most and least visited cedar parks?

 

As of 2014...

 

Source.

 

I've thought cedar point would've been the most visited park.. not CW

 

Kings Dominion doesn't really fall into the category of the lesser Cedar Fair parks, meanwhile Knott's doesn't fall into the category of higher Cedar Fair parks.

 

Anyways I think a launched wingrider like Thunderbird or another family launcher like Cheetah Hunt or Manta would be the best fit for the park. We have enough ultra-intense coasters that we need something lighter and more re-rideable.

Edited August 23, 2015 by madmax

[Password121]

In 2015 Canada's Wonderland will absolutely destroy Cedar Point in attendance. I wouldn't be surprised to see the difference reach .75 million.

That doesn't mean CW is more profitable though. It's all about profit--attendance is just a factor towards profit.

[Virus]

I do believe KD will get a coaster in a few years. KD is my favorite amusement park ever, due to its scenery and awesome coasters! My visit back in April was awesome. It was empty, and the coaster line up was quite decent. KD doesn't need a roller coaster... at least not now. I think that KD should keep focusing on the little improvements, that make a big difference when visiting the park. I like the improvements to Candy Apple Grove. I must say Delirium will be a great addition, and I am impressed it isn't just a Planet Snoopy expansion like WOF is getting .

[A.J.]

I'm sure the real reason why they haven't gotten a new coaster in the last 5 years is that a $25 million dollar investment takes a long time to re-coup and it doesn't appear that the park has been doing badly over these last few seasons with the smaller additions that they have added since. The park actually has a pretty decent line-up of coasters already, and while yes, the majority of "coaster enthusiasts" on this site would like to see them unrealistically add a new coaster every year, but maybe that's not what they need?

To add to this, while they are within an hour of each other, Busch Gardens and Kings Dominion don't necessarily tackle the same market, so you can't really say that Kings Dominion needs a new big-ticket attraction every other year to "keep up".

[madmax]

I do believe KD will get a coaster in a few years. KD is my favorite amusement park ever, due to its scenery and awesome coasters! My visit back in April was awesome. It was empty, and the coaster line up was quite decent. KD doesn't need a roller coaster... at least not now. I think that KD should keep focusing on the little improvements, that make a big difference when visiting the park. I like the improvements to Candy Apple Grove. I must say Delirium will be a great addition, and I am impressed it isn't just a Planet Snoopy expansion like WOF is getting .

 

After seven years though they should get one.

[Password121]

I do believe KD will get a coaster in a few years. KD is my favorite amusement park ever, due to its scenery and awesome coasters! My visit back in April was awesome. It was empty, and the coaster line up was quite decent. KD doesn't need a roller coaster... at least not now. I think that KD should keep focusing on the little improvements, that make a big difference when visiting the park. I like the improvements to Candy Apple Grove. I must say Delirium will be a great addition, and I am impressed it isn't just a Planet Snoopy expansion like WOF is getting .

 

After seven years though they should get one.

This is a huge misconception. New coasters aren't built based on "need" or just whenever they've waited long enough. They're built when it's a smart investment that could have the best ROI. If a park has steadily growing attendance and hasn't built a new coaster in ten years, why spend money for no reason?

[Tee1999]

I do believe KD will get a coaster in a few years. KD is my favorite amusement park ever, due to its scenery and awesome coasters! My visit back in April was awesome. It was empty, and the coaster line up was quite decent. KD doesn't need a roller coaster... at least not now. I think that KD should keep focusing on the little improvements, that make a big difference when visiting the park. I like the improvements to Candy Apple Grove. I must say Delirium will be a great addition, and I am impressed it isn't just a Planet Snoopy expansion like WOF is getting .

 

After seven years though they should get one.

This is a huge misconception. New coasters aren't built based on "need" or just whenever they've waited long enough. They're built when it's a smart investment that could have the best ROI. If a park has steadily growing attendance and hasn't built a new coaster in ten years, why spend money for no reason?

Then why was intimidator built in the first place?

[Password121]

I do believe KD will get a coaster in a few years. KD is my favorite amusement park ever, due to its scenery and awesome coasters! My visit back in April was awesome. It was empty, and the coaster line up was quite decent. KD doesn't need a roller coaster... at least not now. I think that KD should keep focusing on the little improvements, that make a big difference when visiting the park. I like the improvements to Candy Apple Grove. I must say Delirium will be a great addition, and I am impressed it isn't just a Planet Snoopy expansion like WOF is getting .

 

After seven years though they should get one.

This is a huge misconception. New coasters aren't built based on "need" or just whenever they've waited long enough. They're built when it's a smart investment that could have the best ROI. If a park has steadily growing attendance and hasn't built a new coaster in ten years, why spend money for no reason?

Then why was intimidator built in the first place?

Maybe you could attempt to understand what you just replied to. It might have an answer somewhere in there.

[redfoot12]

Cedar Fair did invest in two huge coaster in 2010 with the two Intimidators. So it wouldn't be unprecedented for both KD and CW to each get a

$20+ million coaster in 2017. Not that I think KD needs a $20 million coaster. T'would be nice though.

[CedarFair1]

Cedar Fair did invest in two huge coaster in 2010 with the two Intimidators. So it wouldn't be unprecedented for both KD and CW to each get a

$20+ million coaster in 2017. Not that I think KD needs a $20 million coaster. T'would be nice though.

 

maybe two wing coasters, or a hyper for you guys and wing coaster for CW

[JonnyRCT3]

I know I know, people get tired of riding the same coasters when they go. Well, take in one of the park shows. Take a stroll thru dinos alive. Spend some time in the water park.

 

I would rather see the food get MUCH BETTER at KD before a coaster. What's the point of having new coaster after new coaster when no one wants to spend money on your food, where the real money comes in at. You pay every time you eat, not every time you ride a coaster. Universal and disney have figured it out. Unique food offerings and good overall quality in food and merchandise is what brings in the bucks.

 

Most enthusiast's logic is "a new coaster needs to be added because one hasn't been added in x amount of years." Most forget that this is a business, and money will only be spent where it can be made. And as Coasterguy21 said;

With attendance maintaining with the additions, why rush to put in a super-major capital project?

Most forget that parks invest in other things that also bring in money, flats, food, waterpark, family areas, etc. These all pull in big money, not just coasters. Again, people conveniently forget that this is a business not a charity service for coaster demanding enthusiasts, who will complain even if they do get one because it isn't an Intamin.

 

It's just very annoying hearing all the whining about "no new coaster, we NEED one!", when people completely ignore the fact that CF/KD has invested heavily for years so that guests can have a better overall experience throughout the day, not just a 60-second rush. But when it's not what they want (family areas, general improvements that are needed), the park is somehow "neglected" because they didn't spend $25 million on their fanboy-fueled pipe dream.

 

/rant

Edited August 23, 2015 by JonnyRCT3

[madmax]

Cedar Fair did invest in two huge coaster in 2010 with the two Intimidators. So it wouldn't be unprecedented for both KD and CW to each get a

$20+ million coaster in 2017. Not that I think KD needs a $20 million coaster. T'would be nice though.

 

maybe two wing coasters, or a hyper for you guys and wing coaster for CW

 

Why does everyone assume that CW is getting a coaster in 2017? They are planning a hotel resort I thought.

[redfoot12]

As an enthusiast, I'd kind of like to see Cedar Fair engage with some other manufacturers (and maybe they are) than B&M. I'd really like to see an American park (not just CF) receive a Blue Fire type coaster or a custom variant.

[Tee1999]

Cedar Fair did invest in two huge coaster in 2010 with the two Intimidators. So it wouldn't be unprecedented for both KD and CW to each get a

$20+ million coaster in 2017. Not that I think KD needs a $20 million coaster. T'would be nice though.

 

maybe two wing coasters, or a hyper for you guys and wing coaster for CW

 

Why does everyone assume that CW is getting a coaster in 2017? They are planning a hotel resort I thought.

 

It's mostly CW fanboys. They're as spoiled as ever.

[DoinItForTheFame]

Why does everyone assume that CW is getting a coaster in 2017?

 

Well all the CW fan boys are butt hurt because the Dive Machine ended up going to Cedar Point instead of CW, so now they are going to start hoping for 2017.

[madmax]

KD is way more likely to receive a coaster, even if it's not ginormous, in 2017 than CW.

[Garet]

I know I know, people get tired of riding the same coasters when they go. Well, take in one of the park shows. Take a stroll thru dinos alive. Spend some time in the water park.

 

I would rather see the food get MUCH BETTER at KD before a coaster. What's the point of having new coaster after new coaster when no one wants to spend money on your food, where the real money comes in at. You pay every time you eat, not every time you ride a coaster. Universal and disney have figured it out. Unique food offerings and good overall quality in food and merchandise is what brings in the bucks.

 

Most enthusiast's logic is "a new coaster needs to be added because one hasn't been added in x amount of years." Most forget that this is a business, and money will only be spent where it can be made. And as Coasterguy21 said;

With attendance maintaining with the additions, why rush to put in a super-major capital project?

Most forget that parks invest in other things that also bring in money, flats, food, waterpark, family areas, etc. These all pull in big money, not just coasters. Again, people conveniently forget that this is a business not a charity service for coaster demanding enthusiasts, who will complain even if they do get one because it isn't an Intamin.

 

It's just very annoying hearing all the whining about "no new coaster, we NEED one!", when people completely ignore the fact that CF/KD has invested heavily for years so that guests can have a better overall experience throughout the day, not just a 60-second rush. But when it's not what they want (family areas, general improvements that are needed), the park is somehow "neglected" because they didn't spend $25 million on there fanboy-fueled pipe dream.

 

/rant

 

It's interesting because here in Korean we've only had 1 family roller-coaster in almost 7 years for the whole country at the expense of an old looper. The number of coasters have gone down due to one or two becoming SBNO yet Everland and Lotte World are among the worlds most visited park and their attendance does pretty well increasing each year (this year might be the exception due to MERs)

[thewesker]

I find this whole "which park is getting a coaster in 2017" thing very amusing. Cedar Fair parks act generally independent of one another when it comes as to what one adds or removes. A park getting a coaster doesn't mean another will or won't, and it certainly doesn't mean one "stole" it from another. Take a step back and look at what you're saying sometimes. It sounds ridiculous. All of these parks work on multi-year plans, carefully crafted for the absolute best ROI they can manage while still adding incremental attractions to keep guests happy.

 

Here's what we do know: Cedar Point is very very very likely getting a new roller coaster in 2016.

 

And that's it.

[CedarFair1]

Cedar Fair did invest in two huge coaster in 2010 with the two Intimidators. So it wouldn't be unprecedented for both KD and CW to each get a

$20+ million coaster in 2017. Not that I think KD needs a $20 million coaster. T'would be nice though.

 

maybe two wing coasters, or a hyper for you guys and wing coaster for CW

 

Why does everyone assume that CW is getting a coaster in 2017? They are planning a hotel resort I thought.

 

Though Phillips was mum on any details about what will be happening next, he said there were “certainly” concepts in mind for a new attraction. The difficult decision to close SkyRider was due in part to the aging coaster’s location. The ride sits on 5,100 square metres of prime land between the water park and Wonder Mountain, and the park’s executives decided the spot would be a perfect place for their next big attraction.

Phillips was tight-lipped about what that attraction might be or how long it will take to complete.

“All I can tell you is it’s a very large construction project,” he said. “If you look at our history, over the last five to seven years, I think guests know it will be something exciting.”

 

 

That is why we assume a coaster is coming in 2017, however I agree I feel like you guys are getting one too

[redfoot12]

I find this whole "which park is getting a coaster in 2017" thing very amusing. Cedar Fair parks act generally independent of one another when it comes as to what one adds or removes. A park getting a coaster doesn't mean another will or won't, and it certainly doesn't mean one "stole" it from another. Take a step back and look at what you're saying sometimes. It sounds ridiculous. All of these parks work on multi-year plans, carefully crafted for the absolute best ROI they can manage while still adding incremental attractions to keep guests happy.

 

Here's what we do know: Cedar Point is very very very likely getting a new roller coaster in 2016.

 

And that's it.

 

Wild rumors and speculation make the enthusiast world go around.

[CedarFair1]

To be honest I like this thread the most cause you guys are the most active, so I bring up other random stuff to so I apologize

[mhuffva]

As Robb stated earlier, its not just about the coasters. I can see why so many coaster junkies want their next "hit" and are agitated that Kings Dominion is going into their sixth year without a new coaster attraction. Yes, it is the longest gap in the park's history between coaster installations. But, on the the flip side, the park received Dominator and Intimidator 305 just TWO YEARS apart.

 

It's impossible to debate the fervent coaster enthusiast who goes to a park to spend 90% of their time there riding coasters and complains that the coaster line-up is stale and the park "needs" (i.e. "I want") another new coaster for the new thrill and to combat my "coaster boredom".

 

It today's amusement/theme park business, with the competition for people's money/time being so fierce, parks have to spend money across the board to improve all areas to appeal to the broadest cross-section of folks. Remember that Cedar Fair has undergone a transition in corporate management within the last 4 years. Dick Kinzel and around 50% percent of upper management have left; with Matt Ouimet and a good number of upper management now in place over the last 2-4 years.

 

I can see myself some general trends happening with the "Place Making" effort in parks, (Valley Fair's Route 76 area and Cedar Point's Gemini Midway makeover), and the "Amusement Dark" portfolio of dark rides being installed in the park chain. Food is being worked on in most parks with Chefs being hired over the last couple years and working toward better food quality and service. Improving/expanding entertainment options. Adding mini-events at parks like "Spring Bloom", "Taste of the Carolina's", BBQ & Brew, Food Trucks, etc. Lord knows the Halloween Haunt events have exploded across the park chain.

 

Kings Dominion is in the middle of the Cedar Fair group of parks. We don't get 3 million plus in attendance like the top 4 parks in the chain. I think it currently averages between 1.8 to 2.0 million visitors a year. In the whole history of this park, I don't think attendance ever exceeded 2.2 million visitors in one year. I do believe current average attendance is lower than its peak in the mid to late 1980's.

 

The attendance drop started after 2-3 years under Paramount ownership. Most entertainment in the park was eliminated (the park chain entertainment division Kings Production was removed). Most younger people don't understand that, back in the pre-Paramount days, the former KECO park chain was known as much for their entertainment as they were for rides and attractions. I think around 6%-8% of park attendance was driven just by the entertainment options alone. There were folks that visited mainly for watching shows while riding only a handful of rides. The closest you can come to that type of park entertainment today would be to visit a Busch Gardens or Herchend park.

 

While under the Paramount name, Kings Dominion's themed areas slowly eroded by neglect or placing attractions, with a movie tie-in, in park areas where they did not blend in with the existing theme. Themed areas, once distinct, blended in with a kinda "no man's land" look to it. The western end of Candy Apple Grove reminds me of this still. The last 3-4 years, before Cedar Fair took over, were not kind to Kings Dominion. The park was looking run-down and general maintenance was either put off or minimal work was done. I think the park received the reputation of being an "asphalt coaster park for teens" during this time and attendance slipped further.

 

Cedar Fair had their hands full just getting the park up to their standards over the first 3-4 years of ownership. But, they did keep adding attractions most of those years as well.

 

It appears that Matt Ouimet and the current corporate leadership are trying to fine tune each park based on its market region, competition, and what type attraction to add and how frequently that happens. The main focus has been to up-size parks in the chain that have the most potential for growth. Carowinds was under-sized for the market it serves. Cedar Fair got tax breaks from the regional governments and they started a 3 year accelerated development plan for Carowinds. That should wrap up next season with the water related attraction(s) for 2016.

 

For Kings Dominion, the current primary focus seems to be medium investments in new attractions while over-hauling the park's infrastructure, most of which is 40 years old. I think that started with "Place Making" efforts in the appearance of several areas in the park last year; the water park this year; and Candy Apple Grove next year. The mini-events were expanded/added with "Spring Bloom" last year and "BBQ & Brews" this year. Haunt is always evolving with new/revamped mazes and scare-zones each fall.

 

I think a new coaster is coming, and it could be in 2017. Other possibilities in the next 4 years could be a dark ride, the return of some former flat rides, or maybe another expansion of the water park.