The Cruise Ship and Cruise Line Discussion Thread!

[SharkTums]

^Absolutely agree. And however dumb the captain was in going too close to shore, not calling a mayday, etc. The fact that when he realized what was inevitable that he brought the ship as close to shore as possible saved even more lives.

[nander]

100 years after the Titanic sank, another big cruise ship sinks. My mind is blown.

Ehmz.. A death count of 10 is a 'joke' compared to the Titanic (1592) and the Dona Paz (4500).. That last one was in 1987, biggest naval non-military crash ever. That's not the year, it's not the length in decimeters, it's the deathcount.. Shit happens.. Especially with banks, because they tend to move. Software get's outdated and makes mistakes, humans screw up. Remember.. 100 years after the first flight, still lots of planes crash..

 

I urge you all to wait with having conclusions on who's to blame, it's very easy to come with that question, but first the entire situation should be reconstructed, so it's clear under what circumstances it happened.

I don't know who said it, but it's true nevertheless: "The less you know about something, the easier it is to form an opinion on that subject".

 

Maybe nobody is to blame. Maybe it's the captains fault, but he didn't do it with mal intent, in which case he shouldn't be punished in my opinion (If we accept stupidity as a crime, it opens a whole brave new world).

 

By the way, ships don't just capsize, it requires time.. Maybe those 10 went belowdeck to get their stuff, in which case it's their own fault.. 10 out of 2400 is 0.5%, which is actually not a lot.. Titanic was around 30%, Dona Pas around 99% (crashed into a full oil tanker (which breached and set the scene on fire) which didn't use light signals and sank in a minute flat, so no time to launch lifeboats); 10 survivers out of 4500.

 

Also: the computer is the only reliable source to control big ships, captains would make much more mistakes. In most modern ships you can barely SEE what's happening anywhere without using computer-backed information systems. The ship is just too big and the bridge is not high enough above the water.

[BrownStreak]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Carnival essentially the Wal-Mart of the Seas? It seems that they have the most problems and are always popping up on 60 Minutes' hidden camera episodes.

[SharkTums]

^You'll see them pop up more because like Disney they put through the most guests. Their brands represent about 49% of all cruisers.

 

That being said, I agree, it seems like their captains have been at fault for several accidents over the years. They may just have a different culture. The whole no muster drill before leaving is insane!

[Swiminn6]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Carnival essentially the Wal-Mart of the Seas? It seems that they have the most problems and are always popping up on 60 Minutes' hidden camera episodes.

 

Some people say that. BUT, my family and I always considered ourselves RCCL fans, but we took our first Carnival cruise in early 2011 and loved it! We sailed on the Carnival Dream and it was really a beautiful ship! They are trying to become less cheesy and you could tell. I wouldn't consider a cruise with them on any other of the classes but the Dream class is great. There was really no complaints. I think I posted some pictures of it in this thread.

Edited January 17, 2012 by Swiminn6

[ginzo]

I'm pretty skeptical of these reports of the captain steering close to land to "wave to a friend" and him running off to some random cabbie's house to have a coffee.

[CardCraze]

I'll bite on the captain coming in close to show off to a town or a friend. I can't even fathom though how he would get off the ship, hop a cab, and have tea, and nobody would even bother to look for him, let alone see him drive off.

[deguy123]

I've been on one cruise and that was Royal Caribbean back in 1999. I like some people can't believe they don't do a drill before they leave port. It almost seems like that is something that should be done without question. My thoughts go out to the families that lost loved ones.

 

While many people are saying "I'll never take a cruise", thats just insane to me. I mean cars are much more dangerous and people do that every day. I personally didn't like doing a cruise but I might try it again soon.

[robbalvey]

The death toll is now up to 11. Details have been released that one of the missing passengers is a 5-year old girl. And it's sounding more and more like those crazy stories about the captain are turning out to be true. Insane.... Oh, Carnival!

 

http://www.cruisecritic.com/news/news.cfm?ID=4710

 

Updated 9:45 a.m. EDT) -- Divers have recovered five more bodies from inside the wreck of Costa Concordia, bringing the death toll to 11.

 

To assist divers in their search for survivors, Italian Navy specialists set explosive charges against the hull of Concordia just after dawn on Tuesday to force entry into the interior of the ship and allow divers access to parts of the ship that had previously been unreachable.

 

The number of missing almost doubled overnight, from 16 to 29, with 25 passengers and four crew members unaccounted for, according to Italian coast guard officials. Reuters reported that 14 of those missing are German, six Italian, four French, two American and one each from India, Peru and Hungary.

 

Identities of missing individuals are slowly coming to light, as well. Italian William Arlotti, 34, along with his five-year-old daughter Dyana are among those passengers unaccounted for as are Gerald and Barbara Heil, a retired couple from Minnesota. Maria D'Introno, a 30-year old Italian on the cruise with her new husband and members of their families has also not been seen since Friday night. And appeals have been made on behalf of crewmember Erika Soria, 26, a tourism student, by her father Saturnino to TV news outlets in their home country of Peru, according to SKY News.

 

Rough seas that caused a brief halt in rescue operations Monday onboard the capsized Costa Concordia are now raising fears that the vessel could slip into deeper waters, sink altogether or begin leaking fuel oil. The ship shifted several inches earlier in the day, shortly after the discovery of the sixth victim of the maritime disaster.

 

Italian officials have also announced that a state of emergency will be declared with regards to the sunken vessel. This would open the way for funding to help stabilize the ship and avoid fuel leakage that could cause an environmental disaster in the pristine waters off the coast of Giglio, where the stricken ship lies just offshore in approximately 50 feet of water.

 

Costa Cruises Chief Executive Officer Pier Luigi Foschi told reporters during a Monday news conference that securing the ship to prevent environmental damage is a high priority. All manner of technical experts -- sent from parent company Carnival Corp. and sourced independently -- are advising Costa on how and when to secure and move the ship. Concordia is carrying 2,300 tons of various types of fuel in 21 tanks, he added.

 

Meanwhile, a firestorm continues to surround Francesco Schettino, the ship's captain. Transcripts of radio and telephone conversations between Schettino and the Italian Coast Guard were published by the Guardian online, which appear to place the captain on a lifeboat relatively early on in the evacuation, rather than on the bridge of the ship. Though coast guard officials ordered the captain back to the ship at one point during the conversation, it is believed he did not return.

 

At Monday's news conference, Foschi spoke to the allegations surrounding Schettino's actions, saying, "The company will be close to the captain and will provide him with all the necessary assistance, but we need to acknowledge the facts, and we cannot deny human error."

 

Foschi's pronouncement followed the line's Sunday release of a statement acknowledging the whirlwind of speculation: "Preliminary indications are that there may have been significant human error on the part of the ship's master ... which resulted in these grave consequences. The route of the vessel appears to have been too close to the shore [Giglio sits some 40 miles from the embarkation port of Civitavecchia], and in handling the emergency the captain appears not to have followed standard Costa procedures."

 

During Monday's press conference, Foschi revealed that Schettino deviated from the official computerized route taken by more than 100 Costa ships a year. The diversion took Concordia within 450 feet of the Giglio coast, though black box data is needed to confirm the distance. Foschi explained that the line painstakingly designs its navigational routes with safety, security and convenience in mind. "The captain, of course, does have the authority to change the approved course, but [we're] not expecting him to do so unless there are dangerous weather or sea conditions," he said. "[in] normal conditions, a normal situation ... the ship has to follow the route."

 

Italian newspaper Corriere della Sera is reporting that Schettino brought the ship close to shore so that the head waiter, Antonello Tievoli, could see his native Giglio up close. Tievoli, a 12-year veteran of the ship, was supposed to disembark the week prior and take some time off, but at the last minute he stayed onboard to cover for an ill coworker. In an interview with the newspaper, Tievoli's father, who still lives on the island, said: “Antonello called me earlier to say the ship would be passing by the island around 9:30, and they would come and give us a whistle to say hello. It was something they often did."

 

Minutes before the ship hit the rocks, the waiter's sister alerted her Facebook friends of the ship's arrival, according to the Telegraph newspaper. “In a short period of time the Concordia ship will pass very close. A big greeting to my brother who [will] finally get to have a holiday on landing in Savona,” she wrote in Italian.

 

On Monday, the body of a male passenger was found in a corridor above water, following the discovery of the bodies of two elderly men near a submerged restaurant on Sunday. Two more people were added to the number of missing after relatives of two Sicilian women who had been listed among those safely evacuated on Friday night told authorities they not heard from them.

 

According to WBBM Newsradio in Chicago, those missing include a Minnesota couple, two of the 126 Americans onboard. Agence France-Presse says the dead include a Spanish man, an Italian, two French passengers and a Peruvian crew member. At least 60 were injured. More than 4,000 passengers and crew were evacuated from the vessel in what has been widely described as a terrifying experience.

 

The discovery of more victims comes in the aftermath of happier news Sunday when a man, believed to be the ship's purser, had been airlifted to safety. The man was located by rescuers 36 hours after the ship ran aground near the island of Giglio, off Italy's west coast.

 

Two other survivors were also accounted for late on Saturday, when a honeymooning couple from Korea, both 29, were rescued from a cabin in the submerged ship. The two, reportedly in good health, were taken by ambulance to a hospital.

[BeemerBoy]

Carnival Corp., parent company of Costa Cruises, says the partial sinking of the Costa Concordia off the coast of Italy could cost it nearly $100 million in lost earnings this year.

 

In a disclosure required by rules governing publicly traded companies, industry giant Carnival (CCL) said Monday that the impact to 2012 earnings for loss of use of the ship is expected to be approximately $85million to $95 million or 11 cents to 12 cents per share.

 

"A damage assessment review of the vessel is currently being undertaken to determine how long it will be out of service," the Miami-based company said. But "the vessel is expected to be out of service for the remainder of our current fiscal year if not longer."

 

Carnival's fiscal year ends Nov. 30.

 

In addition to loss of use of the vessel, Carnival faces costs associated with personal injury liability related to the accident and the cost of damage to the ship.

 

The company said it has insurance for damage to the vessel with a deductible of approximately $30 million as well as insurance for third-party personal injury liability subject to an additional deductible of approximately $10 million for the incident.

 

The company said it faces other costs from the accident that "are not possible to determine at this time."

 

Carnival is the world's largest cruise company, with more than 100 vessels spread among nearly a dozen brands, including Carnival, Costa, Princess, Holland America and Cunard.

 

In a statement accompanying the disclosure, Carnival chairman and CEO Micky Arison said the company's priority is the safety of its passengers and crew.

 

"We are deeply saddened by this tragic event, and our hearts go out to everyone affected by the grounding of the Costa Concordia and especially to the families and loved ones of those who lost their lives," he said. "They will remain in our thoughts and prayers."

 

Shares of Carnival stock, which is listed both in London and New York, plunged 20% in early trading Monday in London.

 

SOURCE

[SharkTums]

They had some experienced cruisers who were on the Costa ship appear this morning on the Today Show. They said that the crew repeatedly was telling people to go back to their cabins. That is TERRIFYING!!! Obviously experienced cruisers knew not to do this, but if you didn't know, you would listen to the crew and follow their orders. It will be sad, if some of the dead were in their staterooms because they thought they should be due to the crew instructions.

 

This is just coming out more and more as a string of terrible human errors.

[BeemerBoy]

^ Very sad indeed.

 

I also heard that the older couple from Minnesota, who remains missing, reportedly used their life savings to take that cruise.

 

EDIT: Here's a little more on them: Link

Edited January 17, 2012 by BeemerBoy

[deguy123]

^^ Wow, that just amazes me that no matter what the crew thought was going on, they would tell people to go to their rooms.

[gisco]

The instructions to go back to their cabins may be why so many are still missing.

[ParkTrips]

Shares of Carnival stock, which is listed both in London and New York, plunged 20% in early trading Monday in London.

 

Time to buy and pay for my next cruise

[nursemelis374]

This is all crazy and sad, but in no way deters me from wanting to take another cruise. I'd even go on Carnival again!

 

One thing I noticed is that people went back to their staterooms to change their shoes or something but didn't grab passports or credit cards. I have always thought that if we were in a true emergency I would at least grab my passport and cards and jam them in my pocket. If nothing else, they can easily identify my body!

[piers]

I would just grab some cigarettes and the wine I had smuggled on board.

[ernierocker]

So, I mentioned this incident to the guys here at work, and just about the general reaction was "And that is why I am never going on a cruise!"

 

The actions of the ship's captain (if true) are just beyond belief. It almost sounds like the plot of a B movie.

[cfc]

^Five will get you ten that SyFy will get ahold of this story, only the survivors will be marooned on an island full of Supergators, while their rescuers are harrassed by Mega Sharks.

[Meteornotes]

^I'm seeing nothing wrong with this idea.

 

dt

[Jew]

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/world_now/2012/01/costa-concordia-italian-coast-guard.html

 

Here is a translation provided by the Associated Press of the transcript of the conversation between Capt. Francesco Schettino, commander of the grounded Costa Concordia, and Capt. Gregorio De Falco of the Italian coast guard in Livorno.

 

In the conversation, De Falco repeatedly orders Schettino to return to the ship to oversee the evacuation, while Schettino resists, saying it is dark and that the ship is listing.

 

The audio was first made available on the website of the Italian newspaper Corriere della Sera, and the Italian coast guard confirmed its authenticity Tuesday to the Associated Press.

 

———

 

De Falco: “This is De Falco speaking from Livorno. Am I speaking with the commander?”

 

Schettino: “Yes. Good evening, Cmdr. De Falco.”

 

De Falco: “Please tell me your name.”

 

Schettino: “I'm Cmdr. Schettino, commander.”

 

De Falco: “Schettino? Listen, Schettino. There are people trapped on board. Now you go with your boat under the prow on the starboard side. There is a pilot ladder. You will climb that ladder and go on board. You go on board and then you will tell me how many people there are. Is that clear? I'm recording this conversation, Cmdr. Schettino…”

 

Schettino: “Commander, let me tell you one thing…”

 

De Falco: “Speak up! Put your hand in front of the microphone and speak more loudly, is that clear?”

 

Schettino: “In this moment, the boat is tipping…”

 

De Falco: “I understand that, listen, there are people that are coming down the pilot ladder of the prow. You go up that pilot ladder, get on that ship and tell me how many people are still on board. And what they need. Is that clear? You need to tell me if there are children, women or people in need of assistance. And tell me the exact number of each of these categories. Is that clear? Listen, Schettino, that you saved yourself from the sea, but I am going to … I'm going to make sure you get in trouble. … I am going to make you pay for this. Go on board, [expletive]!”

 

Schettino: “Commander, please…”

 

De Falco: “No, please. You now get up and go on board. They are telling me that on board there are still…”

 

Schettino: “I am here with the rescue boats, I am here, I am not going anywhere, I am here…”

 

De Falco: “What are you doing, commander?”

 

Schettino: “I am here to coordinate the rescue…”

 

De Falco: “What are you coordinating there? Go on board! Coordinate the rescue from aboard the ship. Are you refusing?”

 

Schettino: “No, I am not refusing.”

 

De Falco: “Are you refusing to go aboard commander? Can you tell me the reason why you are not going?”

 

Schettino: “I am not going because the other lifeboat is stopped.”

 

De Falco: “You go aboard. It is an order. Don't make any more excuses. You have declared ‘abandon ship.’ Now I am in charge. You go on board! Is that clear? Do you hear me? Go, and call me when you are aboard. My air rescue crew is there.”

 

Schettino: “Where are your rescuers?”

 

De Falco: “My air rescue is on the prow. Go. There are already bodies, Schettino.”

 

Schettino: “How many bodies are there?”

 

De Falco: “I don't know. I have heard of one. You are the one who has to tell me how many there are. Christ.”

 

Schettino: “But do you realize it is dark and here we can't see anything…”

 

De Falco: “And so what? You want to go home, Schettino? It is dark and you want to go home? Get on that prow of the boat using the pilot ladder and tell me what can be done, how many people there are and what their needs are. Now!”

 

Schettino: “…I am with my second in command.”

 

De Falco: “So both of you go up then … You and your second go on board now. Is that clear?”

 

Schettino: “Commander, I want to go on board, but it is simply that the other boat here … there are other rescuers. It has stopped and is waiting…”

 

De Falco: “It has been an hour that you have been telling me the same thing. Now, go on board. Go on board! And then tell me immediately how many people there are there.”

 

Schettino: “OK, commander”

 

De Falco: “Go, immediately!”

 

[SharkTums]

This is all crazy and sad, but in no way deters me from wanting to take another cruise. I'd even go on Carnival again!

 

One thing I noticed is that people went back to their staterooms to change their shoes or something but didn't grab passports or credit cards. I have always thought that if we were in a true emergency I would at least grab my passport and cards and jam them in my pocket. If nothing else, they can easily identify my body!

 

I totally agree with EVERYTHING you posted. The only thing I guess would be that until you're in an emergency like that you don't know how you'd react. When we were living in California though I had a list (paper and mental) of everything to grab quickly in case of an Earthquake or Fire. That mental list would help me in a situation like that as well.

[robbalvey]

One thing I noticed is that people went back to their staterooms to change their shoes or something but didn't grab passports

When you do an international cruise like this, you have to surrender your passport when you first get on board. This is the standard procedure for all cruises departing from an international locations. In fact, I believe the US cruises are the only ones you don't have to hand them in.

 

--Robb

[SharkTums]

^Ahh, yes. That's a VERY good point. We've had to surrender ours on South America cruises, Europe cruises, and on our upcoming Dubai cruise we have to as well.

 

They still should have grabbed some money and a credit card though.

[BeemerBoy]

You can literally feel the frustration from the Italian Coast Guard Captain in that transcript.

 

I love that the ship's captain tries to justify why he can't return to the ship, nevermind the fact that he shouldn't have ever left it in the first place. So funny, yet so incredibly sad. General human behavior, plus the lack of responsibility and accountability just continue to baffle me on so many levels.