Jump to content
  TPR Home | Parks | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube | Instagram 

Cedar Fair Corporate Development Discussion Thread (FUN)


Recommended Posts

do we want ride operators or do we want the best educated, most driven, highest competing labor force in the world?

Yes, we want both of those. We want some people who are highly educated and we want blue collar workers too. We don't want to push our economy to the point where you have to put all your energy into years of work just hoping to land a job, and if you don't or can't do that, you're doomed to a life of poverty watching the income gap grow away from you. We want a world where hardworking people can work hard and do fine, where they won't be rich but they won't starve either, because for some people a career doesn't define who they are. Did you learn nothing from 2016?

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 1.7k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

I'll say this about "the kids" - for a lot of fields, working every summer and supporting yourself doing a job with your classes is no benefit whatsoever. It's actually a net negative, because it means you weren't doing unpaid internships related to your field.

Being one of those "kids", this hits home for me. If I would have picked up a job after graduating high school and then did classes on the side / at night, I would not be where I am today, with a relatively stable job in the theme park industry, which I love. I wouldn't be where I am now, had I not had the opportunity to intern with this company a few summers before, in between the semesters / quarters of my full-time schooling.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Cedar Fair's parks predominantly draw from red/"purple" states - Missouri, North Carolina, Michigan, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Virginia. These are places which will feel the strongest negative effects of trade war as they are involved in the manufacturing of durable goods or agriculture about to be tarriffed and possibly driven out of existence. Cedar Fair is also betting that Congress will be able to push increasing the number of J-1 and H-2B visas, which they openly admit their corporate tax savings are going to building dorm rooms for. They need that to keep the cost of labor down, as they are otherwise competing in the open market for workers and going to be forced to raise pay.

 

Six Flags has a stronger presence in the "blue" states, and is less likely to be affected. The price of oil increasing again to make shale profitable doesn't benefit Cedar Fair in any way. It is much more likely to positively affect Six Flags as their parks in Texas are much closer to that action.

Sadly, many kids in the US don't want to do these jobs.

 

I wonder why that is? I have my theories but I'm not getting into that here.

 

I just remember my high school football team picking watwrmelons in the weeks before 2 a days. Two a days were then a breeze. Got some spend money to get into shape. The benefit of instilling a work ethic and placing an emphasis on education would be might beneficial to many of the teens these days.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Despite overwhelming demand Congress failed to increase the 66K cap last fall and again in the spring. They gave DHS the ability to give 15K at their discretion. This is all politics of them knowing they are needed but they don't want to vote for it b/c they will get some far right person attacking them on being soft on immigration in a primary. Sadly, many kids in the US don't want to do these jobs.

 

I'll say this about "the kids" - for a lot of fields, working every summer and supporting yourself doing a job with your classes is no benefit whatsoever. It's actually a net negative, because it means you weren't doing unpaid internships related to your field. This is especially true in policy and finance fields. Kids are also being pushed harder than ever to commit to getting AP credits, going to universities, taking classes in summer, and obtaining advanced/terminal degrees while partaking in a variety of extramural activities in order to hopefully obtain scholarships. Pay-For-Play soccer exists in America largely because parents see their kid's high school and travel team activities as a cheaper alternative to paying for a state school and books by getting their sons or daughters a free ride (that is often promised). All this means much lower labor force participation. You can't have it both ways, after all: do we want ride operators or do we want the best educated, most driven, highest competing labor force in the world?

 

BTW: Cedar Point was packed this weekend Bill, so maybe there's just been some weird delay in people turning out to the parks.

 

I worked a summer job in HS and played travel soccer. They were hardly "fun" summer jobs. I worked for my uncles' roofing company having to get up at 5am every morning. I participated in many school clubs and activities, besides playing 2 varsity sports. I earned 24 credits via AP's upon HS graduation. I don't see the trade off scenario you present.

 

I was not an anomaly, all my HS friends were the same. This is not a back in my day thing, I know many kids that do the same know, but they are the minority. Talking to kids now and their parents, I just shake my head with the mentality that has been perpetuated. There is a high level of entitlement and many thinking they are too good for a "service job", for the summer. Having a "not fun HS job" reminds kids of what their future could be if they don't handle their school work. If they neglect their education they will be saddled with a job they hate for decades, not for 2 1/2 months.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I worked a summer job in HS and played travel soccer. They were hardly "fun" summer jobs. I worked for my uncles' roofing company having to get up at 5am every morning. I participated in many school clubs and activities, besides playing 2 varsity sports. I earned 24 credits via AP's upon HS graduation. I don't see the trade off scenario you present.

 

Depends on the field you enter. A friend of mine worked his way through a masters degree managing a Food Lion. He couldn't get a sniff in DC in spite of having internships at prestigious organizations and a top notch degree because he was "the supermarket guy". And when it comes to graduate school applications, I can tell you this from watching it first hand - no one cares if you worked a job. What they want is activity applicable to the degree. If you bussed tables to get through college and someone else had the chance to volunteer 20 hours a week in a lab, that second person is more desirable by a ton. I say that as a paid employee of possibly the most prestigious public university in the US.

 

I was not an anomaly, all my HS friends were the same. This is not a back in my day thing, I know many kids that do the same know, but they are the minority. Talking to kids now and their parents, I just shake my head with the mentality that has been perpetuated. There is a high level of entitlement and many thinking they are too good for a "service job", for the summer. Having a "not fun HS job" reminds kids of what their future could be if they don't handle their school work. If they neglect their education they will be saddled with a job they hate for decades, not for 2 1/2 months.

 

If I had a kid, I'd advise them to spend their summers in classes instead of working for $9/hr because completing their college degree in the shortest amount of time would pay dividends down the line. Aside from maybe doing the Disney College Program, no employer is gonna care about what garbage job you had when you were a teenager when you're looking to get into a professional setting.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I worked a summer job in HS and played travel soccer. They were hardly "fun" summer jobs. I worked for my uncles' roofing company having to get up at 5am every morning. I participated in many school clubs and activities, besides playing 2 varsity sports. I earned 24 credits via AP's upon HS graduation. I don't see the trade off scenario you present.

 

Depends on the field you enter. A friend of mine worked his way through a masters degree managing a Food Lion. He couldn't get a sniff in DC in spite of having internships at prestigious organizations and a top notch degree because he was "the supermarket guy". And when it comes to graduate school applications, I can tell you this from watching it first hand - no one cares if you worked a job. What they want is activity applicable to the degree. If you bussed tables to get through college and someone else had the chance to volunteer 20 hours a week in a lab, that second person is more desirable by a ton. I say that as a paid employee of possibly the most prestigious public university in the US.

 

I was not an anomaly, all my HS friends were the same. This is not a back in my day thing, I know many kids that do the same know, but they are the minority. Talking to kids now and their parents, I just shake my head with the mentality that has been perpetuated. There is a high level of entitlement and many thinking they are too good for a "service job", for the summer. Having a "not fun HS job" reminds kids of what their future could be if they don't handle their school work. If they neglect their education they will be saddled with a job they hate for decades, not for 2 1/2 months.

 

If I had a kid, I'd advise them to spend their summers in classes instead of working for $9/hr because completing their college degree in the shortest amount of time would pay dividends down the line. Aside from maybe doing the Disney College Program, no employer is gonna care about what garbage job you had when you were a teenager when you're looking to get into a professional setting.

 

You're now talking about college and not HS. My example was HS. College I had engineering internships every summer except after freshman year. That year I took summer schools b/c I wanted a double major and a minor. Of course, in college you should be looking for summer stuff applicable to your degree. There are many summer job fairs, well that's the way it was in STEM. These jobs require only to be 16 in most cases, these are fine HS summer jobs. Also, many kids in college are "surfing", ie..don;t know what they want to major in for 1 or 2 years and then there is the large group that pick nonsense majors with little to no job prospects or earning potential upon graduation, they are your barista. This large group are prime for these park jobs.

Link to post
Share on other sites
then there is the large group that pick nonsense majors with little to no job prospects or earning potential upon graduation, they are your barista

 

Don't forget, they also go to the most expensive universities and rack up a huge amount of debt to earn their worthless majors.

 

#marinebiology

Link to post
Share on other sites

Marine biology is arguably the most valuable field. It's estimated that about 91% of species on Earth have yet to be discovered, and the vast majority of these are in the ocean.* Who are the ones that discover those species? That's right, marine biologists. If we're valuing coffee over knowledge of our planet, then it's because our priorities are screwed up, not because the knowledge isn't important.

 

I could go on all day about the stupidity that was outsourcing job training to universities and thus shifting the financial burden to workers rather than employers. More to the point at hand though is that we are seeing an extreme where young people are having to essentially start their job training years before they even are able to apply for a job, without knowing whether they even can get one. Then if they don't get that job, they have student loan debt and are forced into the same job prospects as people who never went to higher education at all. Those people are all over the Rust Belt and really would benefit from just going and getting a job like Cedar Fair offers and not incurring the debt in the first place.

 

A lot of the people who started in the theme park industry just had some talent and went straight to work. They worked hard, caught the eye of their manager, and were promoted. The Season Pass Podcast is full of old timers telling those stories. So I don't buy the argument that it's all an individual's fault for having some ambition and they should have known when they started college what the job market will look like in 4-6 years. That's just not reasonable.

 

Our economic system is screwed up. The fact that Cedar Fair is having to rely so much on foreign workers is evidence of the economy's brokenness, not its success.

 

*https://oceanservice.noaa.gov/facts/ocean-species.html

Link to post
Share on other sites

As with anything, the phrase "your mileage may vary" applies to theme park and entry level jobs. I know plenty of people who got into the field of their choice through their job at a theme park. The fields vary from everything to staying in the theme park business in management, creative roles, HR roles, finance roles, sales roles, entertainment....

 

Even using the marine biology example. Working as a ticket seller at an aquarium could get you the foot in the door for when you finish your degree.

Link to post
Share on other sites
A lot of the people who started in the theme park industry just had some talent and went straight to work. They worked hard, caught the eye of their manager, and were promoted. The Season Pass Podcast is full of old timers telling those stories. So I don't buy the argument that it's all an individual's fault for having some ambition and they should have known when they started college what the job market will look like in 4-6 years. That's just not reasonable.

It's often been speculated that the current generation of young professionals (my age, a bit older, possibly a little bit younger) is the first to, as a collective whole, target the themed entertainment industry as a career from the start of their educational studies. From my own experience, a lot of the "old guard" actually started off as professionals in different fields, such as architects and producers, and migrated to themed entertainment.

 

My only experience ever working directly in / for a park was a five-month Disney College Program, seven years ago.

 

Even less than ten years ago, it was absolutely unheard of for students to form a club or organization at their university specifically geared toward getting careers in the theme park business - let alone show up to the IAAPA Attractions Expo to learn and network. Now, things are different. Designing themed experiences is my master's degree. I've worked in California, and I'm working now in Florida on some crazy huge stuff as a designer. I have old friends from my student organization that are today helping to manage entire portfolios of theme parks. I have current friends who are working as artists and designers for the big companies. They knew what they wanted to do years in advance, and they are doing it right now.

Link to post
Share on other sites

You're now talking about college and not HS. My example was HS. College I had engineering internships every summer except after freshman year. That year I took summer schools b/c I wanted a double major and a minor. Of course, in college you should be looking for summer stuff applicable to your degree. There are many summer job fairs, well that's the way it was in STEM. These jobs require only to be 16 in most cases, these are fine HS summer jobs. Also, many kids in college are "surfing", ie..don;t know what they want to major in for 1 or 2 years and then there is the large group that pick nonsense majors with little to no job prospects or earning potential upon graduation, they are your barista. This large group are prime for these park jobs.

 

I'll just leave this here:

 

http://www.parkscope.net/2018/01/how-is-theme-park-labor-market-formed.html

 

Labor force participation by students is way, way down because the pressure to attend college and prepare for it or one's degree is extremely real and very different from 20-30-40 years ago.

 

As far as getting jobs at Cedar Fair parks instead of college - yeah, nah, not if they want to eat. Seasonal parks don't offer much for opportunity compared to even fast food or landscaping. You can make good money doing sales for a landscaping company that might take you 7-8 years to reach for income as a theme park employee.

Link to post
Share on other sites
As with anything, the phrase "your mileage may vary" applies to theme park and entry level jobs. I know plenty of people who got into the field of their choice through their job at a theme park. The fields vary from everything to staying in the theme park business in management, creative roles, HR roles, finance roles, sales roles, entertainment....

 

Even using the marine biology example. Working as a ticket seller at an aquarium could get you the foot in the door for when you finish your degree.

 

Just quoting this again and emphasizing the first part.

 

But getting the thread back on topic...Cedar Fair (and everyone else) use international labor because it is cheaper than raising wages to supplement their workforce. In the case of Cedar Point, I imagine they can only find so many people who want to live in crappy dorms to work long hours for entry level pay.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Thanks for that, so technically it does not auto renew until you give the go ahead to do so.

 

Assuming you checked auto-renew last year, I think you only need to sign agreement forms if you log in to the portal and get this message which may or may not even be possible unless you hit "modify" and change something.

 

Untitled.thumb.png.ee5ba5a2e386d62dcf1e0a02e2007f7a.png

 

I got an email today from Kings Island where I got the pass and it said that action was required but never said what the action was. I logged in to the portal, saw that I basically didn't have to do anything and left. I went back in again after seeing this post to look for the forms and never found them, but while I was there I entered my new phone number and then (after modifying something) I finally had to sign new forms. Until I did that, there was no prompt anywhere to do so.

 

Brit never signed up for auto-renew, so for her I had to re-enter the credit card info although now it won't accept it and just says "Sorry, there was an error saving your information." no matter what.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 2 weeks later...

Cedar Fair flash sale on passes Aug 16 thru 19th. Renewals just $1 more than 2018 for Platinum. All Cedar Fair park dining just $3 more.

 

CF as mentioned on their conf call are testing different payment plans. The payment plans options differ by park. Quick scan of some parks shows Cedar Point is 8 payments, Carowinds, KI, KD, KB, CA offer 11 and Wonderland 12 payment plan

Link to post
Share on other sites

I am glad they are moving to a 12 month payment plan. Easier for me to afford $15 a month versus $30 a month.

 

As far as attendance being down, they do a bad job of advertising the Platinum pass and they other parks it includes. With Six Flags you know what other parks they own. My home park of Wonderland only advertises the regular season pass. I think if more people knew about the Platinum pass and the other parks in the chain more people would buy it.

Link to post
Share on other sites

You cant expect Cedar Fair to ignore 5 of its smaller parks year after year and expect attendance to not fall. Six Flags parks all get new attractions every year and they are up. Generally if you build it they will come.

Link to post
Share on other sites
You cant expect Cedar Fair to ignore 5 of its smaller parks year after year and expect attendance to not fall. Six Flags parks all get new attractions every year and they are up. Generally if you build it they will come.

it's true

Link to post
Share on other sites
You cant expect Cedar Fair to ignore 5 of its smaller parks year after year and expect attendance to not fall. Six Flags parks all get new attractions every year and they are up. Generally if you build it they will come.

 

SF is not up, either 2017 or 2018 on a comp same park basis as a whole. But, the details are lost on people.

Link to post
Share on other sites

While true it doesn't explain lower attendance at Cedar Point. They just added one of the best coasters in the world and it didn't draw people like expected.

 

I still they are missing out on not telling people about the Platinum pass and their other parks. Most people know about the Six Flags gold pass but not many know about Cedar Fairs Platinum pass.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't have the energy this, but a few quick things.

 

- As Sven20 said, nobody knows what the numbers mean for Six Flags. It's been about a year since they had a quarter that you could reasonably compare to a previous year. Q4 will always be up because they seem to add a winter event to a new park every year so they have way more operating dates year over year. Q1 was up because Magic Mountain added tons of operating dates compared to last year. Q2 was up because for the last 2 weeks of Q2 they had 5 more parks which ends up giving them about 70 more operating dates. Q3, Q4, Q1 next year and Q2 next year will be up no matter what because they'll have these parks driving pass sales and giving them additional operating dates when compared to the previous year. Q4 will also have new operating dates from Frontier City (through December), Darien Lake (in October) and Holiday in the Park at Six Flags Great America. ...tl;dr: No sh*t Six Flags is up.

 

- Enthusiasts love to pretend that **insert thing they don't like about a park / chain here** explains everything bad that happens to them because they want it to be true. That said, nothing has changed in that regard for about a decade. It's totally nonsensical to attribute this sudden drop to something that's remained constant for years.

 

- Indications are that the biggest drops seem to be at Cedar Point and Kings Island, two parks that have built huge, awesome coasters in the last 2 years. There goes your " if you build it they will come" argument. Cedar Point built the ride that people have been clamoring for for years and they certainly did not come. Kings Dominion built their most amazing thrill ride in a decade and they weren't mentioned as a big success story with that either (though we don't know the numbers park by park so we're just going by what we could discern from the conference call).

Edited by coasterbill
Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.


×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Terms of Use https://themeparkreview.com/forum/topic/116-terms-of-service-please-read/