Coney Island (Luna Park / Deno's) Development Discussion Thread

[larrygator]

^Do we know if they intend to move the independent ride operators out if the land acquisition goes ahead?

 

This article from October gives a little more context. It appears that the parking lot of the minor league baseball team was built on parkland and needs de-mapped (rezoned). In order to de-map the parking lot the city needs to replenish parkland in the area by rezoning an equal amount of acres.

 

http://amusingthezillion.com/2015/10/20/goodbye-ghost-hole-mcu-parking-lot-citys-coney-land-grab-not-just-vacant-land/

 

At Monday’s public hearing on the City’s controversial plan to use eminent domain to acquire six privately owned lots for “the revitalization of Coney Island,” drawings show 12th Street Amusements’ Ghost Hole ride on “Block 8696, parts of lot 140” destined for condemnation. The land to the right of the ride, where a longtime Mom and Pop sublease property to operate a High Striker, is also on the part of the lot to be seized by the City. “There are no proposed alternative locations,” the public notice for the hearing published in the NY Post sternly warns.

 

The reason for the acquisitions was revealed: “Certain replacement parkland” is needed because of “the de-mapping of existing parkland,” stated the Parks Department attorney who ran the hearing. He did not explicitly say which parkland would be demapped, and since “this is not a question and answer forum” (he said twice), no questions were answered. However, it is published information and old news dating back to the Coney Island Rezoning of 2009, except that most people either forgot or never knew that the MCU parking lot, which is parkland owned by the City, is to be de-mapped and sold to a developer. What for? The construction of residential towers with height limits in the range of the Parachute Jump.

 

Among those who spoke out against it at those long ago rezoning hearings was preservationist Christabel Gough of the Society for the Architecture of the City, who said “In Paris, the Eiffel Tower is framed by parkland. Why is that impossible here?” Refresh your memory by looking at the City’s renderings from 2007. In order to de-map parkland, the State requires that it be replaced with parkland of equal acreage and the City must apply to the State for alienation legislation. However, with the Bloomberg administration’s zoning nearly 6 years ago and a new Mayor who ran as the anti-Bloomberg in place who knew the plan was still a go?

 

As we wrote in “Steeplechase Pool, Zip Coaster Sites to Be De-Mapped for Housing” (January 11, 2010)

 

It’s a shame that part of the City’s Steeplechase property is set to become a residential enclave with million dollar views instead of additional acreage for Coney Island’s new amusement park.The fact that the Giuliani administration paved over Paradise–part of the Steeplechase Park site–to allow parkland to be turned into the Keyspan parking lot is bad enough (nod to Joni Mitchell’s “Big Yellow Taxi”). Now the Bloomberg administration is asking the state legislature to “alienate” and de-map the parkland/parking lot so it can be sold to a private developer to build 1,900 units of housing.

 

The Brooklyn Cyclones ballpark was built on the site of Steeplechase’s Pavilion of Fun, but the ballpark is a recreational use and helped revitalize Coney Island when it opened in 2001. A mass of apartment towers on the edge of a dwarfed amusement area is another story, though the City insists 5,000 units of housing is a necessary component of their plan to revitalize Coney Island.

 

News reports prior to Monday’s hearing focused on the acquisition of long vacant land such as the former Thunderbolt lot, but the land grab is not about punishing property owners for keeping their holdings vacant. If it were, Thor Equities’ blighted lot on Surf Avenue and West 12th Street, among others, and Bullard’s Shore Theater, vacant for 40 years, would also be on the list of properties to be taken by condemnation.

 

As we already noted, the proposed acquisition includes property currently and historically used for amusement attractions. “Block 8696, parts of lot 140” is owned by the Murray family and has been used for amusement rides for over 100 years, Carol Murray said in her comments at the hearing. The taking of the land constituted “abuse,” she added. In negotiations with the City’s Economic Development Corporation, she said she is being asked to sell the property to the City, which will then lease a portion of it back to her to operate the amusements that already exist on the spot. “It fails to meet the standards of eminent domain,” she said.

eminent domain hearing

 

Carol Murray, whose family owns a lot leased to 12th St Amusements that is set to be taken by eminent domain by the City, calls the procedure “abuse” at public hearing. October 19, 2015. Photo © Tricia Vita

 

While many of our Coney friends have said they’re in the dark about what the City is up to, eminent domain in Coney Island is nothing new. Remember Robert Moses? (ICYMI Read Chapter 5 of Charles Denson’s Coney Island: Lost and Found). Remember the behind the scenes bargaining leading up to the Coney Island Rezoning of 2009? (ICYMI See Amy Nicholson’s film Zipper: Coney Island’s Last Wild Ride). In fact, why write new text when we can recycle old ATZ blog posts that are pertinent once again. As we wrote in “Eminent Domain in Coney Island? Fuhgeddaboutit!” (July 31, 2012):

 

The Bloomberg administration was right to back off from the idea of taking land by condemnation from Thor Equities and other Coney Island property owners during the rezoning hearings in 2009. Under sharp questioning by City Council land use committee members, the EDC’s Seth Pinsky was forced to admit, “I’m not saying we will use eminent domain, but in fairness to your question, I’m not saying we won’t.” In order to get Council members to agree to vote for the zoning, the EDC instead had to negotiate an agreement to buy property from Thor Equities. At the same time, other property owners were no longer threatened by E.D.

 

We attended that land use committee hearing too, and left with the impression ED was off the table. But that was the Bloomberg administration. A new administration doesn’t have to follow the playbook of the previous one. Back in the ’60s Fred Trump destroyed Steeplechase Park, one of Coney Island’s most famous amusement parks, confident that he would get to develop the “south side” of Surf. That effort failed. The City rejected Trump’s proposed zoning change to develop Miami-style apartments on the beachfront where they approved them in the rezoning of 2009.

 

Fred’s son Donald Trump has been in the news recently for saying “eminent domain is wonderful.” No one suggested anything like that at Monday’s hearing. The support was tepid with the exception of Dick Zigun, Coney Island’s self-proclaimed Mayor, who jumped on the ED bandwagon by saying “Finish the job.”

 

Pamela Pettyjohn of the Coney Island Beautification Project said, “Once you open the door for eminent domain, you can’t close it back. It can be abused. Everyone can be in jeopardy.” Ironically the Supreme Court case of Kelo v the City of New London that makes it possible for the City to condemn privately owned property so that it could be used as part of a “comprehensive redevelopment plan” did not turn out to be for the public good in New London. The seized property is a vacant lot ten years after the court’s decision.

[A.J.]

However, it is published information and old news dating back to the Coney Island Rezoning of 2009, except that most people either forgot or never knew that the MCU parking lot, which is parkland owned by the City, is to be de-mapped and sold to a developer. What for? The construction of residential towers with height limits in the range of the Parachute Jump.

Ugh. Gentrification. The world needs more play spaces, and less high-rise condominiums that will never get used.

[RayReyes]

Hi, I'm new here and I will try to make my intro short, I read every single page from this thread (yes, EVERY SINGLE ONE) in one night, you guys are very funny and insightful on this park, and I would love to be a part of this, I took pictures this afternoon on the area current status (Aquarium, W 10st entrance, Amphitheater). I hope you don't mind the pictures, some of it is blurry.

The construction of W 10st entrance

W 10st new entrance

The amphitheater on the old Child's Restaurant

The new Aquarium facade

I can't wait till it's finished

I heard it was sold, I hope the new owner take care of it, and restore it back to it's former glory

I read that what used to be here was an illegal furniture store, now it's going to be an IHOP, sorry for the quality

What is the city's plan for this lot?

Is Ghost Hole leaving for good due to zoning problems or is it relocating somewhere else?

Luna Park is planning something, but what?

Good old Parachute Jump

Can't complete the trip without a picture of the cyclone, she looks good with her new coat of paint

[larrygator]

The only new addition to Luna Park this year will be the opening of Endeavor.

 

BTW - If you are planning to visit this summer and purchase multiple wristbands for Luna Park, the park stills has a two for one online offer through February 5th.

[RayReyes]

I hear the one that was in Coney was only for a test drive and they're bringing a bigger one, is that true?

[coneyislandchris]

Hi, I'm new here and I will try to make my intro short, I read every single page from this thread (yes, EVERY SINGLE ONE) in one night, you guys are very funny and insightful on this park, and I would love to be a part of this, I took pictures this afternoon on the area current status (Aquarium, W 10st entrance, Amphitheater). I hope you don't mind the pictures, some of it is blurry.

Welcome aboard, Ray! Good to see some more local faces here on the board. Thanks for posting the batch of photos!

[RayReyes]

Hi, I'm new here and I will try to make my intro short, I read every single page from this thread (yes, EVERY SINGLE ONE) in one night, you guys are very funny and insightful on this park, and I would love to be a part of this, I took pictures this afternoon on the area current status (Aquarium, W 10st entrance, Amphitheater). I hope you don't mind the pictures, some of it is blurry.

Welcome aboard, Ray! Good to see some more local faces here on the board. Thanks for posting the batch of photos!

 

You're welcome, I will try to be current as possible with news and photos as possible.

[larrygator]

I hear the one that was in Coney was only for a test drive and they're bringing a bigger one, is that true?

 

I'm not sure of the size of the one installed late this year. The newsletter I gt yesterday promoted Endeavor as sixty feet high with this link to Luna Park website

http://lunaparknyc.com/attractions/endeavor-2/

[RayReyes]

So, is anyone going to get their app? and the extreme thrill wristband with their 4-hour unlimited this season?

 

http://lunaparknyc.tumblr.com/

[Jcoaster]

Well at least now Cyclone and Thunderbolt are somewhat included in the wristband deal. This makes it finally worth purchasing. Great having Coney Island 10 minutes away from home.

[coneyislandchris]

Let's see... five rides on the Cyclone for $35? Yeah, I'm in. Oh, it's good for other rides, too? Heh. That's cute.

[coneyislandchris]

It seems they are making some progress on converting the old Childs Restaurant space into an open-air amphitheatre, according to the New York Times and TheRealDeal. Not that I'm against this, but it just seems a bit strange to me that they're creating a new space for concerts and shows when they already have a minor league baseball stadium that's more than capable of handling the brunt of that. *shrug*

[CoasterTony]

So, is anyone going to get their app? and the extreme thrill wristband with their 4-hour unlimited this season?

 

http://lunaparknyc.tumblr.com/

 

Considering how expensive a single ride on Thunderbolt and The Coney Island Cyclone are, who wouldn't get that! This deal finally makes the park reasonable and actually cheap. This is a great addition to the park!

[coneyislandchris]

Bad news/good news regarding the "extreme thrill" wristbands as mentioned earlier.

 

Bad news -- it is NOT $35 as was originally suggested. The retail price of the wristband, which includes 4 hours of unlimited rides on all non-extreme attractions along with five rides of your choice on Cyclone, Thunderbolt, Raceway, Slingshot, and/or Zenobio... is $70. Which isn't TERRIBLE, but still manages to cement Luna Park as one of the most expensive places in the Northeast.

 

The good news? For the next nine hours, Groupon is running a promotion where you can get two extreme wristbands for $80, total. At $40 per wristband, it ends up being an unbelievable deal, especially considering the price-per-ride of the attractions included. You can get yours from here:

https://www.groupon.com/deals/coney-island-luna-park-10

I hope some of you regulars see this before it expires!

[neil009]

^$70 for five rides, versus that much or less for unlimited rides at any regional park? I don't understand how they justify charging that much.

[Genx24]

It isn't $70 for 5 rides. It's unlimited rides on all attractions plus 5 rides on any of their "extreme thrill" rides, which both Cyclone and Thunderbolt fall under. But I agree that that is a very steep price to pay for a park such as Luna.

 

In other news, I just bought mine via Groupon, so thank you for the heads up, coneyislandchris.

[neil009]

5 rides on the only rides a non-local would travel to Luna park for. When I went you could get 7 rides for that much if you don't go on any of the smaller rides. How is that a deal?

Edited February 21, 2016 by neil009

[Generational]

^^ But the thing is, a mere hour and a half away (not that great of distance in the grand scheme of things) is Six Flags Great Adventure, which for roughly the same price, offers infinitely more than Luna does. The price tag of $35 would have been partially justified for what it offers, but $70? No.

[Genx24]

I agreed that the $70 price tag was too steep for Coney Island. That's why I just bought the wristband for $24 on groupon.

 

Edit: Just realized the park opens 4 weeks from today. Hopefully the weather up here cooperates; I'd love to break in this wristband and start the 2016 riding season ASAP.

[coneyislandchris]

I agreed that the $70 price tag was too steep for Coney Island. That's why I just bought the wristband for $24 on groupon.

 

Edit: Just realized the park opens 4 weeks from today. Hopefully the weather up here cooperates; I'd love to break in this wristband and start the 2016 riding season ASAP.

Be careful; the wristband they have for $24 is the normal one, not the one that includes the extreme rides. They're only selling the extreme rides as a pair of two for $80 at the moment.

 

In regards to the value of a $70 wristband, I absolutely agree that it's way too expensive when compared to what you can get at other parks, especially with only a limited number of rides on their top two coasters. That being said, the other three rides that are included in this are routinely upcharges at other parks. Luna Park typically charges $22 per ride on their Sling Shot -- if you factor that in ALONE, you could save $40 alone from solely using the wristband on that. (Not that you'd want to.)

 

At $40, it's a decent deal for what it is. I will definitely be using that credit to get five rides in on the Cyclone (or maybe four, plus one on the Thunderbolt), and use the rest of the four hours on their other flats. I'm really looking forward to getting on that Endeavor, since I missed it in testing last year.

[Genx24]

Crap, I bought the $24 one in haste without looking at the particulars. I'm gonna have to change my order.

[CoasterTony]

So this wristband is $70 when if you buy your Six Flags season pass the first week they go on sale, they are only $65. Not to mention that gives you every Six Flags park in the chain. For Luna Park that isn't that bad of a deal, but compared to your typical amusement park that is very expensive.

[djcoastermark]

. Aaah gotta love NYC, where everything is expensive/

[strz]

. Aaah gotta love NYC, where everything is expensive/

 

 

To some degree- however, this is a much smaller scale operation vs. a major park....another good example is rides at boardwalks (i.e.- Jersey Shore, OC Maryland, etc.) $$$$ IMO.

[djcoastermark]

^ Agreed, while I love the boardwalk type parks, you are right, they are costly. That' s why I usually only pick the couple of unique rides to enjoy, and mostly just wander around having fun soaking up the atmosphere.