coasterkid124 Posted August 2, 2014 Share Posted August 2, 2014 Yup the circus was a guest survey. I personally don't care about shows as I don't watch them. The circus wouldn't even be free, it was listed as an upcharge. I'm starting not to care anymore what we get as long as it is something thrilling and reliable. If anything we deserve 2 rides next year because of this off year. But deserve does not mean we are guaranteed to get things. The park probably considers the Scrambler as this years big attraction, but to me it doesn't count because we have seen it before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarienLaker Posted August 2, 2014 Share Posted August 2, 2014 I'm starting not to care anymore what we get as long as it is something thrilling and reliable. If anything we deserve 2 rides next year because of this off year. But deserve does not mean we are guaranteed to get things. The park probably considers the Scrambler as this years big attraction, but to me it doesn't count because we have seen it before. Big whoop, Scrambler's return isn't a big deal at all. Bringing back old rides and considering them "new" again is just a way to up the ride count at the park. If anything we deserve something new to the area let alone the state of New York in the way of rides next year! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geauga Dog Posted August 2, 2014 Share Posted August 2, 2014 ^I think bringing Scrambler back is a big deal. They could have just scrapped the ride altogether however if they try to make that the "new" ride it would be a bit disappointing. I'd be thrilled to get at least one new ride next year. I think they need to take a different approach for future surveys. Instead of online surveys they should do in-park surveys while the guests are actually there to maybe get a broader sense of what they would like to see in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coasterkid124 Posted August 2, 2014 Share Posted August 2, 2014 The surveys do have a big bias and that is they are sent to season pass holders. Not only that, but you need to be at least 18 to take it. The majority of pass holders are families who visit often, and of course the kids and teenagers would like to see big rides and roller coasters. However they are not old enough to do the survey so their opinion isn't heard. But when the parents go online and take it, they are going to answer differently and probably wan more shows and family rides if they don go on the big ones. I think that the park is good in the family ride department for now. Family Rides: Corn Popper, Giant Wheel, Sleighride, Tin Lizzys, Thunder Rapids, Grizzly Run, Shipwreck Falls, Carousel, Scrambler, Haymaker, Pirate, Bumper Cars, Lasso Silver Bullet is about halfway between Family and Thrill. Thrill Rides: Twister, Blast Off, Ranger, and the coasters I wouldn't mind seeing some family rides being removed if it means a more well rounded collection. I never thought of this before but the park could remove the Pirate for Sidewinder too. Not too many people ride it anymore and they would be able to keep other prime spots open like UFO's pad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geauga Dog Posted August 2, 2014 Share Posted August 2, 2014 The surveys do have a big bias and that is they are sent to season pass holders. Not only that, but you need to be at least 18 to take it. The majority of pass holders are families who visit often, and of course the kids and teenagers would like to see big rides and roller coasters. That is what I think they are doing wrong with the surveys. I understand they want people to continue to buy passes every year but they really need to focus on those who visit once a year or who may be giving the park a second chance after being burned by the previous owners. Getting those guests engaged in what they like/don't like about the park as well as helping the park decide what direction they should go for future attractions may give them more reason to visit more often and possibly get them to buy a season pass. I think that the park is good in the family ride department for now. That, to me, has always been Darien Lake's strength. A lot of the bigger parks don't even offer the amount of family rides they do. I would like to see them expand in that direction before the next coaster is added. I wouldn't mind seeing some family rides being removed if it means a more well rounded collection. I don't see how removing family rides would result in a more well-rounded collection. The park has a decent variety already and there really isn't a lot that is missing from their lineup. I have a wish list just like most people do but I'll leave that for another time. I never thought of this before but the park could remove the Pirate for Sidewinder too. Not too many people ride it anymore and they would be able to keep other prime spots open like UFO's pad. The thing about Pirate is that it's on the pathway along the lake that leads to basically nothing. The only other attraction along there are the Bumper Buggies. If the park were to start adding things in that area then Pirate may see an increase in ridership. Besides there's too many other empty holes that should be filled before Pirate gets removed. BTW I have never ridden Pirate but I think it has the coolest placement of any pendulum boat ride I've seen being right on the water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sk610 Posted August 2, 2014 Share Posted August 2, 2014 There is one major reason that they are targeting families in their surveys, and it is a very simple one...families spend much more money than the average teenager that goes to the park. families eat at sit down restaurants, and families buy souveniers. its the disney model all over. Disney has some thrilling rides at their parks, but the majority of the cater to the entire family. This is HFE strives to do as well. Just look at their other parks...not one has a hypercoaster, and the majority of the coasters have some sort of heavy theme/story behind them. Think of powder keg, and mystery mine just to name two. this is what DL's coaster future looks like, and not what we see at CP or SFMM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midgetman82 Posted August 2, 2014 Share Posted August 2, 2014 ^That's always the biggest consideration when a park looks to invest in something new: Who spends the most money? This is true for most other parks (chain or no chain) for the exact reasons you listed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaraAB87 Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 The pirate is cool and it's probably the best pirate ride I have ridden, though the water you look into while riding is very dirty and gross. DL's strength is clearly in their flats and family rides, they have a few rides you can't ride anywhere else and some other very unique and uncommon flats. These are also permanent, big rides and not just a ground mount on what is otherwise the same ride you see at a carnival (which is basically what the other area parks have in terms of flats). Not that there is anything wrong with that, but DL's flats just have the "I was built for this park" look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarienLaker Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 ^The sad part of those old Huss flat rides that Darien Lake is that Huss no longer makes theme. Finding spare parts for those rides like Ranger and Corn Popper is hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sk610 Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 Yes hard and very costly if huss is no longer making those rides for standard production. I am sure that huss can make parts, but the time will be significantly longer, and the price would probably be double or more than when it was standard production. It really has to do with total cost of ownership over time, and with those older huss rides, it is way too expensive overall. with ranger, they could easily get something just about the same and much newer. to be honest, the only original huss ride that is still made is the pirate. In the coming years, i would expect to see most of those either refurbished or totally replaced with something newer if they are having current issues Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coasterkid124 Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 The only parts that are really an issue are ones made specifically for the ride. For instance what drives the Ranger are 4 hydraulic motors connected to a pump. If something on that goes it is relatively easy to replace. But if the fiberglass on the cabin begins to rot, that's what causes problems. When the park removed the UFO, a lot of the cabins were not open, much like how a lot of boats weren't working on Raging Seas before it was removed. So the locking mechanism for the doors might have went, and that was hard to replace. Other than those smaller parts, most rides work on a hydraulic system that is easier to work with. But if one small part goes on the actual cars or restraints, it can cause a huge problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sk610 Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 I have to believe that there are some very large metal gears and cogs that help those rides move much like what is visible on twister. those gears can get stripped and may need replacing. if the original manufacturer no longer makes them, then getting one specially made may prove costly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coasterkid124 Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 I have to believe that there are some very large metal gears and cogs that help those rides move much like what is visible on twister. those gears can get stripped and may need replacing. if the original manufacturer no longer makes them, then getting one specially made may prove costly Not exactly, most of the gears and bolts can be replaced quite easily, as they are mostly standard size. It is the specialized parts that kill. Any old hardware store might have 1/4" bolts. But, a bearing customly designed for a Topspin may cause an issue. I would bet money that UFO needed locking mechanisms for the doors replaced, which are not standard. Parts like that are customly designed, and only Huss has the technical drawings. Not only for the mechanisms, but even other metal features like the cross members of the ride. Some of those might have started to rust or corrode from 30 years of winter and raining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zspaw Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 I have been at the park the past few days and I can honestly say the place is in much worse shape than it ever was in its six flags days. I know its hard to imagine a park with worse landscaping and faded and peeling rides and just a general dirty and run down look than a six flags park but darien sure beats them by a long shot. I know that six flags didnt technically take care of this park but if it was being properly funded those problems should be over with now, it is quite obvious that PARC doesn't give this place anywhere near enough funding and it is quite sad. Especially in a year where nothing was added youd think they put special detail into the looks of the park. I didnt take any pictures but i will be back tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geauga Dog Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 ^CNL owns the park but doesn't manage it and that is why they have Herschend running the park. PARC was let go as operator a few years ago. Herschend's hands are tied as CNL has the purse strings and they are known to be quite tight with them. That's why you're not seeing the quick improvements the park needs to make. Sure a few buildings and rides need a fresh coat of paint and the Giant Wheel still needs its lights back but overall the park isn't all that bad considering the investment that has taken place already in certain areas of the park (Rowdy's Ridge and Boardwalk). Getting Darien Lake back to what its potential can be isn't going to be done in one season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zspaw Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 My mistake i know that its CNL that owns it and it was PARC that managed it before herschend i just posted the wrong thing. However they have owned this park since 2007 its been 7 years, look at the type of investments that have gone on in other parks across the country, darien lake just seems to continue to fall behind. Yes they 2 new ares they have redone look very nice but the proper upkeep on the areas around them are worse than darien, its either they dont have the staff to keep they place up, or they dont have the money. An example just look at the mind eraser it was built in 1997 and hasnt been painted since, its rusting everywhere and most parts of the ride dont have any of the color left. It is one of the first rides you will see from the parking lot, it just makes it look like the place doesnt care, I really hope there is a planing the future for CNL to sell before they let this place rot away. Sorry for the rant but if you visit the park this year im sure youll notice, just look at the condition of the rides, landscaping, and building condition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shavethewhales Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 I'd like to see some photos of exactly what you are complaining about. From everything I've been told over the last few years the park has made a turn around in everything except putting enough trains on the coasters. I haven't been there myself, but I'm surprised to see the sudden rise in complaints this year. Six Flags can no longer be blamed for the ills of this park, it's been years since they've been in control. CNL is just a property investment company. They still don't really seem to get the attractions business and want to keep their investments as low as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDarkMaxim Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 Yes ME looks like crap, but literally everything else has been painted. Every building, Boomerang, Viper, parts of ROS (that does need it badly), the pavement is resurfaced every year. One of the most striking changes, they painted the retaining wall/benches. Now they look fresh instead of looking like rotting wood. The buildings are actually being maintained now, with siding and trim being replaced if damaged. Landscaping is quite good, there definitely could be more added to the waterpark, and back towards Twister, but what is there is kept up fairly nice. Really it sounds like your basing your "in much worse shape than it ever was" off of ME looking bad. In reality the park is in the BEST shape it ever has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coasterkid124 Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 However they have owned this park since 2007 its been 7 years, look at the type of investments that have gone on in other parks across the country, darien lake just seems to continue to fall behind.. I have to agree with this. Out of 7 years, we have only gotten 4 big investments. Motocoaster, Splashtown, Rowdy's Ridge, and Boardwalk area. Three of those four did not cost a lot either. A lot of it has to do with CNL being cheap and not wanting to spend much. This year was one of the biggest disappointments so far when the Nik Wallenda show was announced. An example just look at the mind eraser it was built in 1997 and hasnt been painted since, its rusting everywhere and most parts of the ride dont have any of the color left. You have to look at the positives first. 2010 saw the Giant Wheel begin refurbishment, Viper get painted, Bommerang get painted, and Cuda Falls got painted. That cost a lot of money but is still worth it. Corn Popper, the Carousel, Sleighride, Silver Bullet, and the kiddie coaster have also been touched up. Mind Eraser is no doubt in my mind next on the list, but you have to be patient. Paint is important because it protects the rails of the ride from the weather. Sorry for the rant but if you visit the park this year im sure youll notice, just look at the condition of the rides, landscaping, and building condition. Not sure what you mean by landscaping. Darien is one of the more beautiful parks when it comes to the scenery and plants. Moose on the Loose is one of the best looking rides I have seen out of many parks. If you are talking about the Cuda Falls hill, that may be gone by the end of next season if the park expands. Other than that everything else looks good to me. I'd like to see some photos of exactly what you are complaining about. From everything I've been told over the last few years the park has made a turn around in everything except putting enough trains on the coasters. I haven't been there myself, but I'm surprised to see the sudden rise in complaints this year. Six Flags can no longer be blamed for the ills of this park, it's been years since they've been in control. The two main things that are bugging people this year is one train ops, and no new additions. It was a bad move on the park's part but we just have to suck it up and move on. The future looks bright still, and there is now a prime spot for expansion. Thank you for also saying that Six Flags should not be blamed. Everyone has been blaming one train ops on Six Flags's maintenance, however, they always had two trains running, and it has been 7 years. Most of the trains in the park have seen some sort of refurb over the past few years, so there is no reason why they cannot be run. That is unless it is the current maintenance crew who is really making the mistakes. I don't know what the true reasons are, but cleanliness and overall maintenance to the rides has been better than ever this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sk610 Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 I have not been to the park in a few years, but i do plan on going either near the end of august or early september. with that being said, i rely on the pictures that people post to tell me what is going on at the park. All of the pictures i have seen look very impressive. HFE looks like they hzve invested as much as they could with what they were given. It appears that a significant number of rides were painted, and rhe majority of the buildings have been painted as well. As a matter of fact, the only things that have not been painted as i can see are ROS and Mind Eraser. My guessmis that they will paint Mind Eraser this offseason, and the olor scheme will totally change, as may the name. ROS is also due, but due to its extreme height, the cost has to very high, so that may continue to get done in parts as it sounds like they are doing now. I still say HFE looks to be doing impressive stuff at the park. unfortunately, their overall master plan cannot be fulfilled until they fully purchase the park from CNL and can invest as they want, and not how CNL wants Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coasterkid124 Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 Out of the three Ride of Steels ever built, ours was the only one that hasn't been painted yet. When the ride was originally painted, it was done by a local union so the cost wasn't as high. Now due to inflation and companies like Baynum being created, costs have skyrocketed. Plus the sections over water have to be done by boat, or by draining the lake itself. But at least the original paint hasn't started to peel yet like on Mind Eraser. Maybe the park is waiting until they finish their expansion to freshen it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zspaw Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 Not sure what you mean by landscaping. Darien is one of the more beautiful parks when it comes to the scenery and plants. Moose on the Loose is one of the best looking rides I have seen out of many parks. If you are talking about the Cuda Falls hill, that may be gone by the end of next season if the park expands. Other than that everything else looks good to me. The past few years the landscaping was beautiful, and the moose on the loose area is still, but most of the park is overgrown with weeds and untrimmed shrubbery you can teel they either dont fund or staff the l;andscaping department like six flags did. I wasnt able to take pictures but i should be back in the next few weeks. Dont get me wrong the areas that have been updated look great but the lack of lights on the giant wheel is disappointing in the boardwalk area, I know that is a minor thing, but it is the icon of the park besides ride of steel and its been dark for years now. And the report of boomerang struggling to pull trains up its first hill is very true, i wouldn't be surprised to see it close early, and it seems like ranger hasnt been running for a while now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sk610 Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 So basically due to the very unique and cool placement of both ME and ROS over the lakes, painting them is very costly. That is very said to hear, but paintmis a necessity to the ride so rust ans corrosion doesnt render the entire ride useless. The only suggestion i would make to the park would be to pick a color that is more fade resistent in the sun. Maybe a blue or green or gray may hold up better in the sun. unfortunately red fades terribly hence looking terrible. I would expect if they do repaint they may retheme one of the coasters and possibly add a flat ride to that area to start a newarea of the park Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coasterkid124 Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 Not only is red a color that fades quicker, it is the most expensive as well. I would believe that Mind Eraser needs more work, but it is a smaller coaster than RoS. There is no chipping in RoS's track so a coat of paint, as long as it was the same colors, could be painted right over. Mind Eraser would need to be either sandblasted or pressure washed to remove the chips and peeling. This would allow for a color change as well. RoS isn't in as bad of shape and could last a little longer, maybe 5 years before it really needs it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geauga Dog Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 ^Mind Eraser definitely should get a new color scheme and if they do change the color it would be best to primer it first. That's what CF did to Serial Thriller/Thunderhawk at Geauga Lake when they painted it red/teal to orange/yellow and it looked great. As for ME I'd like to see a dark blue track and cream colored supports along with a teal train like they already have and a yellow train. When X Flight was moved to Kings Island in 2007 they just painted over the lime green track and over time that lime green started to peek through the dark red track in spots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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