Six Flags Darien Lake (SFDL) Discussion Thread

[eastcoast]

Sorry I misread that bit about Twister.

 

Don't think too hard about it. The normal park goer will see this as a new ride and surely get in line for it. Similar to Ranger? Sure, but isn't the fate of that ride currently questionable? I don't think making assumptions about its reliability is relevant. Let the thing run for a year. I welcome your criticism then.

[T-Rex]

I wondered that the Ranger maybe on the chopping block. I haven't been to the park since last Spring. Is there something about it I am unaware of? I'm not trying to be an ass or anything, but i just think even as far as a flat ride goes they could have come up with a better idea. Lol maybe I could get a job as an advisory, or something. J.k.

Edited March 9, 2015 by T-Rex

[ajfelice]

You mark my words it won't sell any more tickets than last year. Too many people are un impressed, and others will soon figure it out as soon as they ride it.

 

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to read through Darien Lake's social media and get a general sense of the GP's reaction. So far, I'd say the reception has been excellent. Of course there are a few complainers, but that is the fact of life for every expansion for every park. Go ahead and pick and choose some guest remarks to build an argument that people are unimpressed, but don't forget to include the enormous group of people very excited for the new additions.

 

As for that partial campground removal suggestion, do you really think it would be smart for Darien Lake to downsize one of it's biggest competitive advantages? Build all the coasters you want, but the things that differentiate the park and give it a unique draw are what keep people coming back.

[Sk610]

Yes the two additions this year are erfect for the ark. I fully expect Ranger to be removed sooner rathermthan later. It was SBNO for the majority of the year last year, hence the need to remove. I am sure parts for Ranger are probably very difficult to come by, hence by adding rolling thunder this year they can have the same experience as ranger in a new ride and allow for the removal of ranger

 

On the idea of removing part of the campgrounds for expansion. I only like the idea if the removed area can be reclaimed in another spot on the property. The campgrounds make a lot of money for DL and are pretty much pure profit. The park definitelyneeds to expand, but there are other spots to expand first. I see the old cuda falls area and into the front parking lt as area number one. Second in line would either be over by scrambler and over towards the two islands and along predator and the lake edge. Third I truly think the area between Predatr's turn around and Rte 77 and over towards the hotel will provide open space that can easily be used first without having to infringe on the campground areas. Eventually, i do like the campground expansion idea, just not yet

[T-Rex]

Anybody know what the deal is with Huss rides anyways. Why are so many parks dumping Huss rides. Not just Darien Lake. The Great escape upstate just dropped the Rainbow a couple of years back. I know Huss went out of business a few years back, but I see they re launched. Parts are not as hard to come by as you guys think. I see Huss is still big in Europe.

[Sk610]

I think that the majority of Hussmridesmare now getting older and not mechanically sound anymore. Huss used to be the main flat ride manufacturer. In todays world you have tonsmof flt ride manufacturers and price comes into play much more. Companies like Mondial and Zamperla build great flats at less cost than Huss.

 

Plus I also think all the problems Huss had with the topple towers did not help their situation much. I never did hear that they fully went out of business though.

[ajfelice]

I think that the majority of Hussmridesmare now getting older and not mechanically sound anymore. Huss used to be the main flat ride manufacturer. In todays world you have tonsmof flt ride manufacturers and price comes into play much more. Companies like Mondial and Zamperla build great flats at less cost than Huss.

 

As an industry insider I can tell you price is not the main deciding factor when parks select a ride or manufacturer for a type of ride. Parks are looking at total value in terms of how the ride meets a need of their guests and how the attraction increases their profits.The term "price" also heavily accounts for expected expenses down the road. Look at many Huss attractions and the expenses after purchase are a key problem that coincide with frequent downtime. The asking price is less important than the quality of product itself. In other words, parks are buying "up-time."

[T-Rex]

Don't get me wrong guys. I don't wish Darien lake ill will. I hope the park does succeed. It's all the hope I had when Six Flags owned it. They came in with deep pockets, and renovated the hell out of the park. Mind Eraser, Boomerang, Superman (ROS), and Twister (Top Spin). Then Six Flags sold Darien out. The way things are run today by CNL are questionable in my mind. There still is the threat that they may sell. They have no knowledge of running a theme park, and have to hire outsiders to do it for them. They had 3 different companies PARC, Herschend, and now Premiere (Didn't Premiere own Darien once before?) I wonder if they are just throwing as very little as they can in the park to get rid of it. What I do know is that Herschend offered to buy Darien lake from CNL. CNL only wants to sell all Theme parks together, and Herschend only wanted Darien. That drove a wedge between the 2 corporations. That is why we don't have Herschend today. Herschend wanted to expand the park, but CNL wouldn't give them the budget to do it. So seeing the possibility of the park is why Herschend wanted it. I mean I can't blame them. I know Darien lake is no Cedar Point. I am not living in Fairy tale land. Darien lake has a lot of Potential IN THE RIGHT HANDS.

[SaraAB87]

If anything should be removed it should be the go karts which are expensive to ride and no one rides anymore. Either that or remove some of the stupid, horribly overpriced upcharge rides.

[DougMJr]

If anything should be removed it should be the go karts which are expensive to ride and no one rides anymore. Either that or remove some of the stupid, horribly overpriced upcharge rides.

 

Sling shot and RedHawk are honestly two of my favorite rides at the park. Obviously there is nothing to gain from removing them, so I'll leave it at that.

 

I can speculate that the go karts area could look vastly different when it comes time to evaluate the offerings in that area. Just a gut feeling I have.

 

I guess I'm just way more optimistic than most in this thread. I'm super excited about the new rides this year, and the overall progress that is being made as we approach the season. Lots of great programming with free in-park concerts, dive-in movies, ect.

 

The park will not become an enthusiasts dream overnight, and it shouldn't. But I believe that Darien is a fantastic place for families.

[T-Rex]

Remove the go karts to me is a no brainer. You could fit a decent sized coaster in that footprint, or maybe a few flat rides. Red hawk hmmmm. I really don't know what you can put out in the lake where it sits. So it's really not in anything elses way, or in the way of progress. Sling Shot however. You can fit a decent sized flat ride there.

[T-Rex]

If anything should be removed it should be the go karts which are expensive to ride and no one rides anymore. Either that or remove some of the stupid, horribly overpriced upcharge rides.

 

Sling shot and RedHawk are honestly two of my favorite rides at the park. Obviously there is nothing to gain from removing them, so I'll leave it at that.

 

I can speculate that the go karts area could look vastly different when it comes time to evaluate the offerings in that area. Just a gut feeling I have.

 

I guess I'm just way more optimistic than most in this thread. I'm super excited about the new rides this year, and the overall progress that is being made as we approach the season. Lots of great programming with free in-park concerts, dive-in movies, ect.

 

The park will not become an enthusiasts dream overnight, and it shouldn't. But I believe that Darien is a fantastic place for families.

 

 

 

I am optimistic for the park. I just don't think that it is in good hands now with CNL, or Premiere. Okay yea they got a couple new rides. Rolling thunder is a replacement for the UFO, and that means the Ranger is on the chopping block. So maybe it gets replaced, but with what. You really can't have 2 rides that do the same thing. I just worry they do something of a downer move, and replace the Ranger with a Tilt-a-Whirl. Darien is a great place for Families, but then again what Theme park isn't? Lol ya kinda have to appeal to the big kids too. You are right it can't turn into a dream park overnight. However Six Flags was pulling out the big guns when they owned it. I still know what I dug up. I really believe CNL will sell it. If it ever does sell I cross my fingers either Herschend, or Cedar Fairs wind up with it. Look what Cedar point accomplished with Geagua Lake. I mean ya it closed, but with that kind of transformation to DL

[DarienLaker]

Personally, I think that if Cedar Fair had bought Darien Lake from CNL, that the park would not really end up like Geagua Lake. But more like a cross between Michigan's Adventure, Dorney Park, and Geagua Lake and they wouldn't add any new rides or Snoopy to Darien Lake.

[Geauga Dog]

I am optimistic for the park. I just don't think that it is in good hands now with CNL, or Premiere. Okay yea they got a couple new rides. Rolling thunder is a replacement for the UFO, and that means the Ranger is on the chopping block. So maybe it gets replaced, but with what. You really can't have 2 rides that do the same thing. I just worry they do something of a downer move, and replace the Ranger with a Tilt-a-Whirl. Darien is a great place for Families, but then again what Theme park isn't? Lol ya kinda have to appeal to the big kids too. You are right it can't turn into a dream park overnight. However Six Flags was pulling out the big guns when they owned it. I still know what I dug up. I really believe CNL will sell it. If it ever does sell I cross my fingers either Herschend, or Cedar Fairs wind up with it. Look what Cedar point accomplished with Geagua Lake. I mean ya it closed, but with that kind of transformation to DL

 

And what is wrong with a Tilt-A-Whirl? Classic family ride that is still relatively popular, especially if they theme it. Look at Turkey Whirl at Holiday World. Tilt-A-Whirl would fit in better with Rowdy's Ridge than the Ranger did.

 

You can't exactly use Cedar Fair's disaster with Geauga Lake as an example. They bought it to cannibalize it and get rid of their competition. We all know that Darien Lake has huge potential it just needs someone willing to open their wallets to let it happen. Obviously CNL is not that company, unfortunately, because they could have had a gold mine.

[Sk610]

I agree that the park is definitely on the right track, but do think HFE had much better overall future vision for the park. With that said, I do hope that whoever buys the park turns around and sells DL alone to HFE and recoups some of their investment.

 

I do not want to see CF buy the park as I think it would turn into the same as Michigan's Adventure. Anyone who thinks that if CF purchased the park they would automatically turn it into another CP or even CW are severly mistaken. All of the large chains favor the largest and most attended parks in their chain and always will. This is why DL would do so well under HFE management as DL would fit with attendance of their larger parks like Dollywod and Silver Dollar City. If premier bought all CNL parks, DL would be the biggest park and get the best treatment in the form of rides. I am hoping for either Premier or HFE to buy the park

[SaraAB87]

Remove the go karts to me is a no brainer. You could fit a decent sized coaster in that footprint, or maybe a few flat rides. Red hawk hmmmm. I really don't know what you can put out in the lake where it sits. So it's really not in anything elses way, or in the way of progress. Sling Shot however. You can fit a decent sized flat ride there.

 

The land that the gokarts are on is currently being wasted by the gokarts. The last time I went almost no one was on them. They are old, expensive to maintain, take up a lot of space, use expensive gasoline unlike the new modern electric gokarts and take up quite a few staff members. I believe someone said there is also land behind the gokarts that can be used as well. But if they are still in the park they must be making money on them.....

 

The sky coaster can stay, I see lot of people on it, more than on the gokarts. Slingshot, I don't care either way but removing it would make room for a new flat.

[I305forever]

Moving the go-karts would probably make the most sense. They probably didn't coast as much as the other two and probably doesn't make as much money also. Look at the map if you need another reason. It takes up more space than pretty much all the other flat rides.

[T-Rex]

And what is wrong with a Tilt-A-Whirl? Classic family ride that is still relatively popular, especially if they theme it. Look at Turkey Whirl at Holiday World. Tilt-A-Whirl would fit in better with Rowdy's Ridge than the Ranger did.

 

You can't exactly use Cedar Fair's disaster with Geauga Lake as an example. They bought it to cannibalize it and get rid of their competition. We all know that Darien Lake has huge potential it just needs someone willing to open their wallets to let it happen. Obviously CNL is not that company, unfortunately, because they could have had a gold mine.

 

The problem is the park has too many Family Rides, and not enough Thrill rides as far as the flats go. Giant Wheel, Hay maker, Pirate, Lasso (Wave Swinger), Corn popper, Sleigh Ride, Tin lizzy, and now Rowdy's Ridge Hornets, Heave Hoe, and That Moose track thing. These to me are all family rides. Not to mention The extensive kiddy park. Thrill Rides are Now Ranger, Twister, Blast off, Rolling Thunder, Silver Bullet (Enterprise) Which I argue needs replacement because the hydraulics don't raise it to a full 90 degree anymore. If you get rid of the Ranger, and replace it with another family ride you reduce (Non Upcharge) flat thrill rides to 4. okay here is an idea. If Rowdy's ridge is now the Family area. Move a current existing Family ride over there, and get a new thrill ride to where you freed up space. Move say the Haymaker to where the Ranger was. You can't have it all family rides you need thrill rides too, and those upcharge rides don't count. I am talking flat thrill rides you get included with admission. So in short Delegate a family area, and delegate a high thrill are without up charge.

[Sk610]

Yes DL definitely needs more thrilling flats. My only thing would be why put all the family style rides together? All that does is create separate area of the park. If you look at good parks with actual themed areas like CW and BGW they put some thrills and some family in each area to cater to everyone. This sort of how DL is currently set up, and should continue to be

[T-Rex]

I just disagree with Geaugadog. I make a sarcastic remark that I was afraid that they would replace the Ranger with a Tilt-a-Whirl. He said that it would fit in Rowdy's Ridge better than the Ranger. My argument is that Darien needs more thrill rides. I think the park is set as far as "Family Rides" are concerned. I do agree HFE would have been great owners for Darien Lake.

[Matman-TheRide]

If anything should be removed it should be the go karts which are expensive to ride and no one rides anymore. Either that or remove some of the stupid, horribly overpriced upcharge rides.

 

Sling shot and RedHawk are honestly two of my favorite rides at the park. Obviously there is nothing to gain from removing them, so I'll leave it at that.

 

I can speculate that the go karts area could look vastly different when it comes time to evaluate the offerings in that area. Just a gut feeling I have.

 

I guess I'm just way more optimistic than most in this thread. I'm super excited about the new rides this year, and the overall progress that is being made as we approach the season. Lots of great programming with free in-park concerts, dive-in movies, ect.

 

The park will not become an enthusiasts dream overnight, and it shouldn't. But I believe that Darien is a fantastic place for families.

 

A place for families that is not a coaster enthusiast's dream. Seem familiar (to an europeans)? Darien Lake is like the two larger Walibi parks. With that said, what is wrong with being a compromise between thrills and family entertainment? I have said this before, but it is worth mentioning again that many people are too harsh on Darien Lake. Not many fellow enthusiasts talk about Walibi being bad because they are not big parks. Why does Darien Lake receive the criticism about not being a huge park? I really do agree with Doug on Darien Lake being a place for everyone. As for the Go-Karts, I would love to see a clone of the Kennywood Sky Rocket in that spot.

[TheDarkMaxim]

CNL announces their company valuation today. Mostly boring stuff, but the one little tidbit of info.

 

In 2013 the park had a net profit of $5.6 million, "significant weather and operational challenges " caused it to be only $3.7 million this past year.

 

And again they mention how they proactively removed Herschend for under performing. And mention how premier "has already begun to improve operations and economics at the property".

[Sk610]

I wonder what 'significant weather challenges' they are talking about? It is hard to remember the summer with the winter that we are having, but I thought it was decent. I am sure that the operational challenges had to do with the overall park operations and two train operation on the costers. I think we all knew they would throw HFE under the bus, and fully back the new management team they brought in. Only time will tell if Premier is actually doing more to better overall park operations though.

[T-Rex]

I wonder what 'significant weather challenges' they are talking about? It is hard to remember the summer with the winter that we are having, but I thought it was decent. I am sure that the operational challenges had to do with the overall park operations and two train operation on the costers. I think we all knew they would throw HFE under the bus, and fully back the new management team they brought in. Only time will tell if Premier is actually doing more to better overall park operations though.

 

It doesn't look good for CNL that Premier is the 3rd corporate entity to run the park. I mean lets not forget PARC, and HFE. If Premier fails than it will look worse for CNL. Not to mention 1 death under CNL's belt on (ROS)

[ajfelice]

I wonder what 'significant weather challenges' they are talking about?

 

2014 was horrible for many Northeast/Mid-Atlantic parks in terms of weather. Working for a park two hours Southwest of Darien Lake frequently resulted in us getting the weather headed to Darien Lake. Being that both parks are served strongly by their local markets, I can somewhat extrapolate how the weather will kill attendance and revenues.

 

1. Rain in the morning will almost always dent the daily attendance. Doesn't matter if after late mid/late morning the skies are sunny and clear, as the damage is done.

 

2. Weather forecasts can be almost as damaging as the storm itself. A 30% chance of rain puts the little storm logo on most weather sources, and the local-based general public will write the day off as "We won't risk it, and come another day." Many of them do not come another day or use their Season Pass as much as they would have. I don't have enough fingers and toes to count the days in 2014 when the forecast scared away people when the day ended up perfectly sunny and warm.

 

3. 2013 was not favorable for weather either, however the summer was back-loaded with good weather in mid-July through August which made up for some lost ground.

 

4. 2014 started OK for weather, but as the summer progressed, some of the worst storms and cold spells landed on weekends that were supposed to be busy.

 

5. Lack of attendance due to poor weather or morning weather ruins in-park spending by guests.

 

Basically, 2014 had its butt kicked by inconvenient inclement weather and forecasts that frequently scared off people. The same story comes from many of our "Park Friends" in our region. I like to keep an eye on and sometimes in touch with our Park Friends, and the Great Lakes Parks of Cedar Point, Waldameer, and Darien Lake all had a very similar weather story for 2014. Luckily for CP, their heavy resort model of business kept their bleeding to a minimum.