beatle11 Posted July 9, 2011 Share Posted July 9, 2011 (edited) One other thing...someone mentioned this in the comments of one of the articles. If he had no legs, would he have even met the 54" height requirement? Edited July 9, 2011 by beatle11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderhead Posted July 9, 2011 Share Posted July 9, 2011 As a ride op, who has worked a coaster before, at an amusement park I feel like I should give my input: 1. The safety guide sign (or whatever Darien Lake calls it) is the GUEST'S responsibility to read. It's assumed that if you ride an attraction, you assume those risks. 2. HOWEVER, I'm assuming this guy went to get a Disabled Guest Pass to use the elevator or go up the exit ramp (Again, don't know how DL does this). First Aid (Or whoever gave him this pass) probably crossed off S:RoS on his DGP. So my guess in either First Aid (Or whoever) effed up on the sheet or the ride ops didn't read close enough. My only question is, how did the ENTIRE crew (including the board operator, a position that requires lots of training) not know that this guy wasn't allowed to ride without legs? My guess: He had prostetics, and First Aid gave him a pass for the coaster, assuming he would keep them on while riding. The man entered the station without reading the sign, took the prostetics off as he boarded, and crew assumed he would be fine. A deadly mistake on multiple levels Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILoveRides Posted July 9, 2011 Share Posted July 9, 2011 (edited) Some more from various people in the chat room: - He's probably kicking himself for it. - I think Darien Lake has a leg up on the competition - I wonder how far down the curve the guy fell out... I bet he didn't even get 2 feet - I'll stay afoot of this story. - i guess the ride delivered the 'superman experience'? Edited July 9, 2011 by ILoveRides Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-Force! Posted July 9, 2011 Share Posted July 9, 2011 Anyone who tries to poke fun of someone losing their life is not only childish, but its unacceptable. Obviously what happened here was a tragic mistake most likely the fault of the ride ops, either due to not being trained properly or simple negligence on the part of the ops knowing about the condition and letting the man ride regardless. Either way, still a sad event that shouldn't have happened nor something any park wishes to be involved in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbalvey Posted July 9, 2011 Share Posted July 9, 2011 Disclaimer! You need a sense of humor to view our site, if you don't have a sense of humor, or are easily offended, please turn back now! If you don't like the content you see on this forum, I encourage you to find another forum to read instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpengeist04 Posted July 9, 2011 Share Posted July 9, 2011 Is it bad that my first thought was, they better not screw with the lap bars? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILoveRides Posted July 9, 2011 Share Posted July 9, 2011 Anyone who tries to poke fun of someone losing their life is not only childish, but its unacceptable. If I ever die on a roller coaster because I'm doing something blatantly against the rules and common sense, then feel free to poke all the fun at me you want. Heck, poke fun at me anyways. It's just a joke - they make people smile. Obviously what happened here is sad and tragic, no one is saying it isn't. what happened here was a tragic mistake most likely the fault of the ride ops I think the obvious fault in this case is with the rider. The rules were clearly stated, but he went on anyways. I get that most people sort of skip over the warning signs - but with a serious injury of his sort I think it was his responsibility to make sure he was ok to ride. The ride ops may or may not be at fault depending on what they knew or didn't know about the rider. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyEisentrout Posted July 9, 2011 Share Posted July 9, 2011 This is an absolutely terrible thing but the blame isn't just on one party. The riders either got permission from guest services/park op/first aid or pressured the ride ops to let him ride. Having done this many years, I don't just see an entire platform, of at least 2 people, let a man ride with no legs. It would have to have been everyone's first day to let something like that go. I was always taught that if you aren't sure or comfortable sending someone, contact a supervisor. It's always better to be overly safe than not. If the ride got permission from the front of the park, then the person clearly made a mistake. If I'm not mistaken, it's not just a matter or lapbar vs OTSR, usually no legs means no ride regardless of the harness. If the front of the park had OK'd him to ride, then the ride ops should have been iffy on it and called someone or flat out said no. You wouldn't let a pregnant woman ride anything even if she pressured you to. In my opinion, everyone involved is to blame. The rider, the family, the ride ops, and the guest services people (if involved). He may be a war veteran, but he's not a veteran at riding roller coasters. Bottom line is, if you are not qualified to ride a ride, don't ride it. Edit - In the 8 years that I have worked in the amusement industry, only about 2-3% of the guests actually seem to read the signs. Most guests assume that if they pay to get in, they can do whatever they please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILoveRides Posted July 9, 2011 Share Posted July 9, 2011 (edited) The riders either got permission from guest services/park op/first aid or pressured the ride ops to let him ride. This is an assumption, based on your opinions and not the facts. Having done this many years, I don't just see an entire platform, of at least 2 people, let a man ride with no legs. It would have to have been everyone's first day to let something like that go. But not every ride operator is necessarily as astute or caring as you are. I was always taught that if you aren't sure or comfortable sending someone, contact a supervisor. It's always better to be overly safe than not. But that doesn't mean that they were taught that. If the front of the park had OK'd him to ride, then the ride ops should have been iffy on it and called someone or flat out said no. Again, that's assuming the ride ops were paying attention, were well trained, and were aware he had no legs. All of these details will probably come out in the investigation, but as of now are pretty unclear. You wouldn't let a pregnant woman ride anything even if she pressured you to. I wouldn't? Yes I would! Then I'd laugh at her dead fetus when it came back into the station. In my opinion, everyone involved is to blame. The rider, the family, the ride ops, and the guest services people (if involved). You're forgetting Darien Lake management, Intamin, gravity, and God (if involved). Iraq is also partially to blame. He may be a war veteran, but he's not a veteran at riding roller coasters. Cute phrase. But actually, he's ridden coasters every day of his life and has more credits than anyone on TPR. Maybe, maybe not. But that's why we don't ASSUME! Bottom line is, if you are not qualified to ride a ride, don't ride it. Quoted for truth. Edit - In the 8 years that I have worked in the amusement industry, only about 2-3% of the guests actually seem to read the signs. Most guests assume that if they pay to get in, they can do whatever they please. But as I said in my last post, he had a very serious condition that obviously could put his ability to ride in jeopardy. In that case, he should have read every sign, and should have known to do so. Most people don't read signs, but if you have a condition that could obviously affect your ability to ride then you should read them. And if you don't - this happens. Edited July 9, 2011 by ILoveRides Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-Force! Posted July 9, 2011 Share Posted July 9, 2011 No need for the disclaimer, as I've been around long enough to know the humor side of things here. I'm just trying to be a little respectful to the deceased, no matter if he read or did not read the posted warning signs. In regards to who is to blame, that's for the state to figure out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoasterKings908 Posted July 9, 2011 Share Posted July 9, 2011 what happened here was a tragic mistake most likely the fault of the ride ops I totally agree. Even though the rider might neglect the posted rules, it's the responsibility of the ride operators to enforce them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jew Posted July 9, 2011 Share Posted July 9, 2011 ^^Just to be fair, while you are taking others to task for their assumptions, you appear to be assuming that he is totally at fault just because a warning sign saying he shouldn't have gone on the ride. We'll find out soon enough what happened. Being an "armchair QB" is pretty pointless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILoveRides Posted July 9, 2011 Share Posted July 9, 2011 (edited) ^ I think you're misreading what I'm saying. Here is my original quote: I think the obvious fault in this case is with the rider. The rules were clearly stated, but he went on anyways. I get that most people sort of skip over the warning signs - but with a serious injury of his sort I think it was his responsibility to make sure he was ok to ride. The ride ops may or may not be at fault depending on what they knew or didn't know about the rider. I'm not saying the rider is totally at fault - as in he's the only person responsible. What I'm saying is that based on the facts we currently have, the rider is known to be at least somewhat at fault. The reason I can say that is that it's confirmed there's a sign that has a rule saying he couldn't ride, yet he ignored the sign and rode. Unless I'm mistaken about something - I believe that's a fact, not an assumption. Just because the rider is at fault doesn't mean the ride ops aren't. But at this point, saying the ride ops are at fault is absolutely an assumption - because we don't know if they were aware that the guy didn't have legs. For all we know, he looked like a normal person with pants on, and they had no idea he was missing his legs. Until it's confirmed they knew that he didn't have legs, blaming the ride ops is just a guess. And 'HappyEisentrout' stating things like "The riders either got permission from guest services/park op/first aid or pressured the ride ops to let him ride" as factual when he has no idea if that's what happened is clearly a little unfair to the park and/or riders. Edited July 9, 2011 by ILoveRides Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rollin_n_coastin Posted July 9, 2011 Share Posted July 9, 2011 OTSR would likely be a different story though. Just my two cents. Which I wouldn't be surprised if you see the park retro-fit the ride with the i305 style trains. I really hope not, but wouldn't be surprised either. Imagine that just to still not be particularly safe for someone with no legs to ride. At least one of the recent channel 7 articles said that officials don't think mechanical error was a factor. Condolences to this soldier's family for sure. It is horrible. With this and Morey's, I guess it'll come down to what a proper balance between the park's reasonable duty of care is vs. personal responsibility. I've always felt that more weight should apply to personal responsibility, but it seems it is a common reaction to blame others entirely at first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrenata Posted July 9, 2011 Share Posted July 9, 2011 Just clear me out on something They test the rides with water dummies that have no legs, right? So why something like that have never occured before? Maybe they thought the guy would fit in the car just like a water dummie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbalvey Posted July 9, 2011 Share Posted July 9, 2011 No need for the disclaimer, as I've been around long enough to know the humor side of things here. I'm just trying to be a little respectful to the deceased, no matter if he read or did not read the posted warning signs. In regards to who is to blame, that's for the state to figure out. Different people have different ways of reacting to things. Some mourn quietly, some are more outspoken, some feel the need to cry, others feel the need to laugh. I try to respect everyone equally in situations such as these. I don't think it's wrong to ask the same of our other members. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ccron10 Posted July 9, 2011 Share Posted July 9, 2011 Which I wouldn't be surprised if you see the park retro-fit the ride with the i305 style trains. That wouldn't really fix anything. On Storm Runner and Fahrenheit, with somewhat similar restraints, you need two working legs to ride and prostetics aren't allowed. Is this policy set in by Intamin or the parks that operate the rides? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VinTheAttendant Posted July 9, 2011 Share Posted July 9, 2011 I have had to face amputees many times (one had both legs amputated). Let me tell you, it sucks to say no. It's hard to say no. Not only do people around you protest, but you get a devastated look in the face of the would-be rider. I can only imagine it would have been a difficult choice for the RoS crew to make regardless of their knowledge if he was a war vet or not. Of course, not wanting to hurt someone's feelings is no excuse to jeopardize safety. Even wimpy me was able to keep them off of the ride. I just wanted to give a little more intel on what could have been going through the attendant's head. (unless they were just the "I don't care all the time" type of people). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougMJr Posted July 9, 2011 Share Posted July 9, 2011 I'm very upset to see this happen at my home park... I had high hopes for this season with new management. However I am still seeing occurrences at the park that make me sick. Last week I was just about to get on motocoaster when the girl in front of me fell face first into a fence and suffered a large cut across her forehead. The worst part is that she was on the ground bleeding for 10min before medical got there to help. By the time they got her off the ride she was fighting just to stay conscious. When cleaning up the mess they ran out of that spray that helps clean up blood and they had to radio in for more. Now with this accident on ROS I'm sure that there was a lack of communication somewhere. I hope that this tragedy will bring about positive change for the park in the long run. May he RIP and my thoughts and prayers are with the family. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbalvey Posted July 9, 2011 Share Posted July 9, 2011 They test the rides with water dummies that have no legs, right? Wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyEisentrout Posted July 9, 2011 Share Posted July 9, 2011 Millennium Force uses no legged dummies with no lap bar. Best Picture I Could Find Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adavis Posted July 9, 2011 Share Posted July 9, 2011 How did a man with no legs make the minimum height requirement? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougMJr Posted July 9, 2011 Share Posted July 9, 2011 Millennium Force uses no legged dummies with no lap bar. Yes, but I thought that the victim lost one leg at the knee and one at the hip. So if he lost one at the hip then there is really nothing restraining him on that one side. And if he lost one at the knee then the shin guards are being used at all. The dummies at least appear to have a lap, which is where the lap bar and the seat belt rests. With one leg amputated at the hip I would imagine it would be difficult to sit up right, let alone ride a roller coaster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cgodsey Posted July 9, 2011 Share Posted July 9, 2011 Another photo of him here: http://www.buffalonews.com/city/article482793.ece War veteran or not, NO WAY he should have been allowed to ride. Not even close! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spideyfreak Posted July 9, 2011 Share Posted July 9, 2011 Now I'm really starting to wonder what is wrong with these ride ops. There is no way in hell I would have cleared the train for dispatch with him on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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