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Busch Gardens Williamsburg (BGW BGE) Discussion Thread

P. 456: Information about Christmas Town 2021!

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I'm really not liking how packed in this will be next to Apollo's Chariot. Looks like less than 50 feet or so from the lift. I've always been a believer that coasters should be spaced out somewhat evenly for aesthetic purposes and balance in the park to disperse crowds. This look like Busch Gardnes just wanted to add a coaster to a quality collection, and this won't live up those standards.

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I'm really not liking how packed in this will be next to Apollo's Chariot. Looks like less than 50 feet or so from the lift. I've always been a believer that coasters should be spaced out somewhat evenly for aesthetic purposes and balance in the park to disperse crowds. This look like Busch Gardnes just wanted to add a coaster to a quality collection, and this won't live up those standards.

 

This is my main concern. Of course capacity is going to be a pain in the @$$, but the fact that you will now be driving into the so-called "world's most beautiful theme park" with a mess of tacky colored steel combined just ruins to overall feel BGW strives for.

 

But after seeing the additions of Mach Tower and Verbolten, this doesn't surprise me at all...

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Don't always agree with Lance, but this pretty much sums it up:

 

While this is an excellent ride for a smaller park like SFDK, it really does not have the capacity required for a large park like Busch Gardens Williamsburg. For those not aware, the trains are small… only two cars long, each one holding six riders, for a total of 12 per train… and due to the design it can only run one train at a time. A little quick math will tell you that if they can manage to dispatch a train cycle every 3 minutes, the ride only has an hourly capacity of 240 riders per hour. Now compare this to the theoretical capacity of Apollo’s Chariot, which is said to be capable of up to 1,750 riders per hour. It hardly seems fair doesn’t it? Even if the park is open for 14 hours (10am to Midnight), assuming zero downtime, this new coaster will only thrill 3,500 park guests maximum in a single day. When the park racks up 18,000 to 30,000 guests a day during the busy summer season, only a fraction of the park’s guests will be able to ride this thing.

 

http://screamscape.com/html/busch_gardens_williamsburg.htm

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Maybe when I start my internship I'll convince them to change their plans. What they need is another country, like Spain or something.

 

If one intern can have that much impact then Busch Gardens may be in more trouble than I thought.

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Since everyone's knocking the ride, I'm gonna go out on a limb and play devil's advocate.

 

1. We still don't know if this is gonna be a common clone or a custom layout. That design model looks like it can easily be customized to the park's wishes. All we know is a coaster is going on that spot similar to Superman/Sky Scream. Another case of I'm gonna wait and see what the park has in store before knocking anyone/anything.

 

2. The Busch chain is no stranger to common clones. Scorpion, Wild Maus, and two of the three Texas coasters are clones. If the cloned coaster is good enough, I could care less about what goes in that spot. I don't care what everyone thinks.

 

3. It's low capacity. While I would rather vouch for a higher capacity ride, plenty of major parks have added low capacity rides in the past. Hypersonic, Firehawk, Daredevil Dive, Green Lantern First Flight, Mystery Mine, Stunt Coaster, Volcano, etc... All low capacity rides. If you visit at the right times, you won't even have to worry about lines to begin with.

 

4. OK fine, it's up against another coaster. Knowing the park, they'll theme it up and make it look nice. Not a huge deal. Plus the roller coaster crossing has three coasters literally on top of each other, yet people like that. Having another coaster in Festa should hopefully push crowds out of Germany and distribute them around the park a little better.

 

5. Splashus Maximus was rarely ever used when I'd walk by it. Even during the hot season. Plus the balloons end up all over the place, are a pain to clean, and they're terrible for the environment. I'm surprised the park hasn't removed that thing earlier.

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I actually have no problem with the type of ride in discussion. It looks like fun and I'm sure will be a hit with park goers. Hopefully BGW has plans to address capacity issues as well.

I'm more concerned with the overall direction of the park since it left Anheuser-Busch's hands. While I think it was a fun ride, I don't think Verbolten was necessarily the hit the park was hoping for after sinking $56 million into it and seeing only a 4% increase in attendance. I'm not sure if people would go so far as to call it a failure, but Mach Tower doesn't seem like it was a hit either. I haven't been following BGW too closely over the past few years but I do sense a general malaise among long time fans and the direction the park is going.

Anyway, I haven't been to the park since 2012. I'm looking forward to a trip or two this spring and summer.

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I'm more concerned with the overall direction of the park since it left Anheuser-Busch's hands. While I think it was a fun ride, I don't think Verbolten was necessarily the hit the park was hoping for after sinking $56 million into it and seeing only a 4% increase in attendance. I'm not sure if people would go so far as to call it a failure, but Mach Tower doesn't seem like it was a hit either. I haven't been following BGW too closely over the past few years but I do sense a general malaise among long time fans and the direction the park is going.

 

While Mach Tower was, indeed, a debacle, Verbolten has been quite a hit with visitors, and has been quite popular (the only real griping I've heard about the coaster has been among coaster enthusiasts, but let's face it--that's the enthusiast community for you). The park did make some mistakes with shows. Entwined hasn't exactly been a "hit."

 

But I live in Williamsburg, and I haven't detected a "general malaise among long time fans" (at least not among locals).

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I'm more concerned with the overall direction of the park since it left Anheuser-Busch's hands. While I think it was a fun ride, I don't think Verbolten was necessarily the hit the park was hoping for after sinking $56 million into it and seeing only a 4% increase in attendance. I'm not sure if people would go so far as to call it a failure, but Mach Tower doesn't seem like it was a hit either. I haven't been following BGW too closely over the past few years but I do sense a general malaise among long time fans and the direction the park is going.

 

While Mach Tower was, indeed, a debacle, Verbolten has been quite a hit with visitors, and has been quite popular (the only real griping I've heard about the coaster has been among coaster enthusiasts, but let's face it--that's the enthusiast community for you). The park did make some mistakes with shows. Entwined hasn't exactly been a "hit."

 

But I live in Williamsburg, and I haven't detected a "general malaise among long time fans" (at least not among locals).

 

I think the "malaise" mainly stems from some of the fan sites, like the one linked to earlier in this thread. The author of that article does bring up some good points but I'm wondering if it's just a case of people expecting a brand new expansion, like a new country, and then only getting a "low capacity clone" for their worries.

Again, I think BGW will put their own spin on this attraction and I think I will enjoy it regardless of the issues brought up. I've liked the majority of Premier rides I've ridden and nothing from these "clones" says anything different to me.

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^"New country" rumors have been knocking around for years (and, no doubt, will knock around for years to come). And you've pointed out my main reason for staying away from "one-park fansites"--they're just a wee bit obsessive. (I prefer TPR's more "global" approach.)

 

I'm a "wait-and-see" type of person. I think there's a tendency to "hope for the best, expect the worst" on many fansites (not just park-related ones, either).

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I think BGT is an excellent park; one of the best parks around, even. But BGW doesn't quite have that same level of awesomeness about it. Verbolten's a cool ride and all, but it's not a top-10 coaster like i305 just down the road or even as much fun as Cheetah Hunt at BGT. Alpengeist is one of my least favorite inverts (conversely, Montu is right at the top of my list, pending a ride on Banshee). While Loch Ness Monster is one of the best Arrow coasters, it's still an Arrow coaster. Apollo's Chariot blew my mind when I first rode it in spring 2002. But it doesn't have that WOW factor anymore.

 

They need a ride with that WOW factor. And while this proposed ride might have that, the capacity looks to be such a nightmare that I just don't think the end result will be all that great. I suppose if you think of it more like a flat then it might not be all that bad, but the low capacity may still be disappointing.

 

And I'm not trying to say that BGW is a bad park by any stretch. It's not. It just doesn't stand up too well to direct head-to-head comparisons with its sister park.

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I think BGT is an excellent park; one of the best parks around, even. But BGW doesn't quite have that same level of awesomeness about it. Verbolten's a cool ride and all, but it's not a top-10 coaster like i305 just down the road or even as much fun as Cheetah Hunt at BGT. Alpengeist is one of my least favorite inverts (conversely, Montu is right at the top of my list, pending a ride on Banshee). While Loch Ness Monster is one of the best Arrow coasters, it's still an Arrow coaster. Apollo's Chariot blew my mind when I first rode it in spring 2002. But it doesn't have that WOW factor anymore.

 

They need a ride with that WOW factor. And while this proposed ride might have that, the capacity looks to be such a nightmare that I just don't think the end result will be all that great. I suppose if you think of it more like a flat then it might not be all that bad, but the low capacity may still be disappointing.

 

And I'm not trying to say that BGW is a bad park by any stretch. It's not. It just doesn't stand up too well to direct head-to-head comparisons with its sister park.

 

I've only been to BGT once and was expecting it to blow BGW out of the water. Maybe it was the homer in me, but I thought BGT only really edged BGW by a little. Granted, I haven't visited BGT since 2006. I still find Apollo's Chariot as great as it was its first season. I was actually a little underwhelmed by Montu, given its reputation. I will say that Alpengeist for me has gone way down hill for me over the past 5-6 years and I'll only give it a token ride. Also, I really was hoping for something along the lines of Cheetah Hunt instead of Verbolten.

How's Kumba running these days? I remember loving the hell out of it but have the nagging suspicion it may have roughened up a bit over the past 8 years.

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Honestly, an additon like this just doesn't seem to add up to me. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't actually a S:UF clone. The Height of 150ft. is roughly the same as the smaller of the 2 new S&S 4D zacspin type coasters. Fingers crossed.

 

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I think it looks like great addition, if it's true, the rides at SFDK and Holiday Park looks awesome.

 

I'm sure the park have considered the capacity, and are addressing it to fit their needs. Even if they don't, they won't be the first big park to install a low capacity ride, as mentioned earlier.

 

Also we need to remember that the park got a ridiculously expensive coaster in 2012, I think a big ass, expensive ride for 2015 is out of the question.

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I've only been to BGT once and was expecting it to blow BGW out of the water. Maybe it was the homer in me, but I thought BGT only really edged BGW by a little. Granted, I haven't visited BGT since 2006. I still find Apollo's Chariot as great as it was its first season. I was actually a little underwhelmed by Montu, given its reputation. I will say that Alpengeist for me has gone way down hill for me over the past 5-6 years and I'll only give it a token ride. Also, I really was hoping for something along the lines of Cheetah Hunt instead of Verbolten.

 

I have to agree with this. I think BGT has the better roller coasters, but BGW has a better overall experience and atmosphere.

 

How's Kumba running these days? I remember loving the hell out of it but have the nagging suspicion it may have roughened up a bit over the past 8 years.

 

When I rode it last year, it was amazing! The only part I found remotely "rough" was the turn between the interlocking corkscrews. It's still one of my favorite roller coasters.

 

As for this new ride, if it is a S:UF clone, Drachen Fire won't be the most hated ride in BGW history. I'm sure Busch will the ride make stand out but I will say that I think it's really bizarre that they would put it directly right next to Apollo's Chariot.

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I think BGT is an excellent park; one of the best parks around, even. But BGW doesn't quite have that same level of awesomeness about it. Verbolten's a cool ride and all, but it's not a top-10 coaster like i305 just down the road or even as much fun as Cheetah Hunt at BGT. Alpengeist is one of my least favorite inverts (conversely, Montu is right at the top of my list, pending a ride on Banshee). While Loch Ness Monster is one of the best Arrow coasters, it's still an Arrow coaster. Apollo's Chariot blew my mind when I first rode it in spring 2002. But it doesn't have that WOW factor anymore.

You're strictly talking about roller coasters though. I believe that Busch Gardens Williamsburg is a much better complete experience. Plus the landscaping is just gorgeous!

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I think BGT is an excellent park; one of the best parks around, even. But BGW doesn't quite have that same level of awesomeness about it. Verbolten's a cool ride and all, but it's not a top-10 coaster like i305 just down the road or even as much fun as Cheetah Hunt at BGT. Alpengeist is one of my least favorite inverts (conversely, Montu is right at the top of my list, pending a ride on Banshee). While Loch Ness Monster is one of the best Arrow coasters, it's still an Arrow coaster. Apollo's Chariot blew my mind when I first rode it in spring 2002. But it doesn't have that WOW factor anymore.

 

They need a ride with that WOW factor. And while this proposed ride might have that, the capacity looks to be such a nightmare that I just don't think the end result will be all that great. I suppose if you think of it more like a flat then it might not be all that bad, but the low capacity may still be disappointing.

 

And I'm not trying to say that BGW is a bad park by any stretch. It's not. It just doesn't stand up too well to direct head-to-head comparisons with its sister park.

 

I've only been to BGT once and was expecting it to blow BGW out of the water. Maybe it was the homer in me, but I thought BGT only really edged BGW by a little. Granted, I haven't visited BGT since 2006. I still find Apollo's Chariot as great as it was its first season. I was actually a little underwhelmed by Montu, given its reputation. I will say that Alpengeist for me has gone way down hill for me over the past 5-6 years and I'll only give it a token ride. Also, I really was hoping for something along the lines of Cheetah Hunt instead of Verbolten.

How's Kumba running these days? I remember loving the hell out of it but have the nagging suspicion it may have roughened up a bit over the past 8 years.

 

I think both parks are beautiful and both parks have great coaster collections. They're both world class parks.

 

That being said one park has Kumba and one park doesn't... so there's no debate for me. I love the coasters at both parks though... the only bad coaster at either of them is Gwazi.

 

By the way, I just wanted to point out that I love Alpengeist. I don't know why people think this ride is rough... it's really not, at least not when we rode it this Spring. Maybe we just got it on a good day or maybe it had an issue with a wheel last year but I loved this ride in the front and the back. That Cobra roll is flat out nuts. Montu is better, but in my opinion only slightly.

 

Oh... and Kumba isn't rough at all, no need to be concerned. We rode it for the first time this February and it puts every other B&M I've ridden to shame.

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I just don't get the bitching about the capacity of this ride. They could do nothing and capacity would be zero. It is a unique ride and there isn't another one like it for thousands of miles. Why does everything have to be a people eater? Be happy they are getting something.

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I am taking my 4 kids on Friday for the first time. I am hoping for a small crowd. Now I can get that Air Grover credit without looking like Chester the Molester. I will then have both Air Grovers out of the way. They all want to wear their BGT shirts. I am not a fan of wearing amusement park shirts to amusement parks but it is for the kids. If you go Friday and you see a dorky looking family in BGT shirts its me. My wife refuses to wear one.

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^^^Agreed. Premier has a dual station option (IE: Mr. Freeze coasters) that maybe BGW could be considering. Still won't make it a people eater but who cares? These Premier coasters are a lot of fun and it is better than no addition at all.

Plus there's no confirmation that is the type of ride/coaster they are getting....

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^^^Agreed. Premier has a dual station option (IE: Mr. Freeze coasters) that maybe BGW could be considering. Still won't make it a people eater but who cares? These Premier coasters are a lot of fun and it is better than no addition at all.

Plus there's no confirmation that is the type of ride/coaster they are getting....

 

Exactly. I'm a fan of Premier launched coasters, myself; then again, we really don't know for sure yet, do we?

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^^^Agreed. Premier has a dual station option (IE: Mr. Freeze coasters) that maybe BGW could be considering. Still won't make it a people eater but who cares? These Premier coasters are a lot of fun and it is better than no addition at all.

Plus there's no confirmation that is the type of ride/coaster they are getting....

 

Exactly. I'm a fan of Premier launched coasters, myself; then again, we really don't know for sure yet, do we?

 

Would it be possible to add an extra car or more seats to the two cars? This would increase capacity on top of the duel station. I am excited for an addition like this. It has a unique look plus an twisty layout.

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