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Busch Gardens Williamsburg (BGW BGE) Discussion Thread

P. 445 - Busch Gardens' Mardi Gras Celebration

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Boys don't get me wrong. I'm not saying Griffon is going to be bad or anything like that. It could have been better. The reason why I said the floorless trains are pointless on this ride is on the seats Sheikra have you can't touch the floor anyway. Plus those trains are more expensive being floorless. Also why no tunnels? Come on people that's a digression from Sheikra. they should have put a tunnel with snow inside.

 

You're annoying.

Someone has to say it.

 

- Maliboomer

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^^^ The floorless trains will have no front bar to them like Sheikra's trains have. Basically, the only thing between you and the ground on the vertical drop will be your restraint. That's gonna be awesome.

 

Thats an excellent point! People that I have ridden with that were scared of the ride told me they would put their feet up against the bar and push themselves into their seat to ease their fear. The fact that you only have your restraint between you and the ground, thats freakin sweet!!

 

The more this ride sinks in the more I realize its going to be awesome. Thanks B&M and Busch Gardens!!

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So now we need the official TPR updates for this ride's construction, right? Did I miss them, or were there pages like there are for CP and DW?

 

-James "Thanks, mailboomer, I wasn't going to say anything, but it needed to be said" Dillaman

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Not to mention that the end seats will be over NOTHING. No track or anything. How crazy is that???!!! X is insane and there are bigger seats on it!

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Will the weight of six more people intensify the ride?

No!

I think it will, especially on the end seats, plus you can not go wrong with more weight (more speed).

No!

 

Train weight has absolutely nothing to do with the maximum speed that can be achieved for a given drop height.

 

ideal drop: V² = 2*G*H or V1² = V0² + 2*G*H

 

It's funny how these false assumptions come up every other week, it's even more funny that just these are proposed by dedicated roller coaster fans...

 

well, "funny"? not really...

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^Really? I've always heard the more weight in the train, the faster it is.

You might mix some effects.

 

With a heavier train on a given track, a given start speed should be carried a longer time, since there is more inertia to overcome given friction. This might explain why an empty train will be slower towards the end of a ride than a fully loaded one. This, in combination with weather influence may change the character and *overall average* speed experience a lot.

 

What i'm referring to is that indeed gazillions of coaster fans still believe that a heavier train will give "faster" speeds, which is not true. Once again: given speeds are kept better then, which is a very different effect.

 

However, you will never be able to change the laws of gravitation by "always hearing something"!

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All I know is, when I add weight to my model coaster trains, they go through all the elements faster. It doesn't matter if the train will make this coaster go faster, because I'm sure the people at B&M factored the new trains in to their calculations.

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A couple more construction pictures from this weekend to hold everyone over. Doesn't look like a whole lot has been done since last weekend but I'm sure they'll start making some real progress after the holiday.

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^Really? I've always heard the more weight in the train, the faster it is.

You might mix some effects.

 

With a heavier train on a given track, a given start speed should be carried a longer time, since there is more inertia to overcome given friction. This might explain why an empty train will be slower towards the end of a ride than a fully loaded one. This, in combination with weather influence may change the character and *overall average* speed experience a lot.

 

What i'm referring to is that indeed gazillions of coaster fans still believe that a heavier train will give "faster" speeds, which is not true. Once again: given speeds are kept better then, which is a very different effect.

 

However, you will never be able to change the laws of gravitation by "always hearing something"!

 

Well, here's my two cents!

 

First of all, to tell you the background: I worked as a ride op for PKI on the beast rollercoaster for 2 years. In the control room for the ride, there is a readout of the speed of the ride at 3 points: The exit of the first tunnel at the base of the first drop, the 2nd tunnel after the MCBR, and the entrance to the helix tunnels. While operating with a full train, the speed at the bottom of the first drop would be around 67-69 mph, but when operating with an empty train the speeds would only be around 58-60 mph. The same correllation is true at the MCBR (although that is more to do with the magnetic brakes having less effect on the train when it is full as it moves faster through them) and the Helix. So although I understand your physics, my experience actually shows the opposite to be true: More weight = higher speeds.

 

-James "am prepared to hear why I'm wrong " Dillaman

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I'm not convinced, it is easy enough to time empty trains and full trains and see for yourself.

I think you are refering to the law of dropping 2 different weights.

 

ex. if you drop a 20lb ball and a 5lb ball off a roof they fall at the same speed and would hit the ground at the same time. Coasters and inertia are a little different.

 

JEFF

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With a heavier train on a given track, a given start speed should be carried a longer time, since there is more inertia to overcome given friction. This might explain ....

 

Well, here's my two cents!

 

First of all, to tell you the background: I worked as a ride op for PKI on the beast rollercoaster for 2 years. In the control room for the ride, there is a readout of the speed of the ride at 3 points: The exit of the first tunnel at the base of the first drop, the 2nd tunnel after the MCBR, and the entrance to the helix tunnels. While operating with a full train, the speed at the bottom of the first drop would be around 67-69 mph, but when operating with an empty train the speeds would only be around 58-60 mph. The same correllation is true at the MCBR (although that is more to do with the magnetic brakes having less effect on the train when it is full as it moves faster through them) and the Helix. So although I understand your physics, my experience actually shows the opposite to be true: More weight = higher speeds.

 

-James "am prepared to hear why I'm wrong " Dillaman

 

You are perfectly right the way you describe it. My initial post is directed to all these fanboys out there who still think that a heavier train will give higher achievable speeds than the theoretical possible maximum. Many of these also believe that if a drop was steeper, the maximum achievable speed would increase too. Now that's the rubbish we are reading over and over in many roller coaster forums. For just these common misconceptions I used the "falling weights example" (although formulated), as pkdcoaster pointed out.

 

What you are describing is just what I have called "keeping speed better", (or call it "keeping kinetic/potential energy"). And there is no doubt that effects of friction vs. weight do impact right from the train's release off the chain (or a launch), as your numbers clearly show. Nothing new, however often very misunderstood.

 

I am well aware the differences between any theory & idealized behavior and how things come along in practice. Nevertheless you might not be able to classify any real life influence unless you are aware how some basic principle is influenced or even "distorted". Effects somewhat "add up" like with the construction of a house. You better start bottom up. For some out there (not you) i'd often want to say: "Don't talk about roofs in case you don't even know walls!"

 

To my understanding we are both correct with our views.

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I can't belive I'm reading this-

 

Coaster enthusiasts bashing a new ride installation.

 

I think EVERYBODY HERE would be happy to see another Beemer in a park. Especially a ride with a few new concepts on it. This is absolutely shocking to me to see people go competely insane about how much they hate the design, hate the 'cloning' etc. for a ride that hasn't even opened yet. This is shameful to say the least.

 

Instead of complaining that it's a clone (Which, in all reality it isn't, as the design is modified over SheikRa's design in many ways) let's celebrate the fact that this ride is not only spectacular in it's concept, but that a park which has had an eight year drought of serious trackage.

 

It is well known that Busch Entertainment co. uses similar architects to design the basics of a ride based upon terrain availability (I.E. space available, hills/valleys, existing rides, etc.) and then uses B&M to finish out the design to fufil basic requirements of the ride's nature. Knowing this, we can safely assume that rides will be similar in layout, elements etc. but still unique to how each ride is designed and built.

 

If you look at the basic layout of Drachen Fire and Kumba, for example, they have very similar structural detail (Look at the lift hills, for blessed sake!) and have similar elements (yes, Kumba had an Immelman, and Drachen Fire had the Corkwinder) but they both featured a Batwing/Cobra Roll and at least two corkscrews (Yes, Drachen Fire had one removed.) Evne the colors were similar (Both had Electric Blue track, and whereas the trains were red on DF, Kumba's structure was red.)

 

This is a trend which is not going to stop, folks- BEC is going to use what they know works and works well to keep people happy at all the parks, no matter which one they're building a new ride at. Instead of whining over a particula ride's features, etc. let's be sane about this and say 'GREAT RIDE!

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ex. if you drop a 20lb ball and a 5lb ball off a roof they fall at the same speed and would hit the ground at the same time. Coasters and inertia are a little different.

 

JEFF

 

... only if you are in a vacuum.

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^^^^

 

QueerRudie said it best... ANY new coaster is great news for BGE and this coaster is going to be INTENSE. I can't believe this thread was buried under so many others... I guess posting will pick up here as soon as track arrives.

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I just have one sort of doubt. If anyone has seen Robbs ShieKra video, you'll notice that the trains look really sleek, especially on the drops. Now I dont know if its the fact that its 8 rows, 3 cars; or something else, but I just hope Griffon can have that same sleekness without 10 seats looking overly bulky.

 

other than that, WAHOO!! FINALLY A NEW RIDE FOR BGE!

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Well, while the sides will be streamlines of course the open-ness of the trains will take away some from that "sleek" look you mentioned. It's just bare bones... seats and restrains, wheels and covers. I think they were going for the "immense stength" look anyways...

 

On the BGE announcement page of Griffon they've mocked up what one of the trains will look like from a SheiKra photo.

 

http://www.buschgardensnews.com/060822_Griffon_Web/ppages/ppage5.html

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It looks like a great coaster and i'm sure the experience wont be the same as SheiKra. I hope to ride it sometime soon myself. The floorless dive machine idea is neat but as said before the 10 row cars might look a bit... "to wide", i hope it doesn't make the coaster look ugly but judging from the fotos it probarly wont be so bad.

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