Busch Gardens Williamsburg (BGW BGE) Discussion Thread

DrachenfireOP · December 10, 2014

^ Funny story about all that, which is an anecdote, but the source I got it from leads me to think it's true. When Drachen Fire was built, it had standard Arrow role-backs, but it also had a very fast lift hill, so it was LOUD. Well, all the residents in the nearby community complained that they could hear it and it was waking them up, so they designed a silent roleback system for it.

So when they built Alpengeist, the park asked for a silent lift out the gate, and they got it! Apollo has the same system. Anyhow, for whatever reason, GP were reporting that they were worried "something was wrong with the ride (Alpengeist)" because it didn't make the traditional "roller coaster sound" going up the lift. So the park eventually let Alpengeist's rolebacks get loud again... Yet as far as I can tell (it's been a few years since I've been to the park), Apollo never changed it's rolebacks

I'll never understand some of the decisions that were made, and I also miss the silent Alpengeist lift.

GwaziBSRider1 · December 10, 2014

I've never found Alpengeist's lift hill to be noticeably loud. I rode it several times in March and didn't notice it at all. Nessie's lift is the only one that I would consider loud, but then again, it's an Arrow lift.

CPmillenia94 · December 10, 2014

^My favorite thing was hearing the lochness sounds walking past the Clydesdales and down towards the river, the rollbacks could be heard far before seeing the ride. And I do remember alpengeist having a fairly loud lift last time I was there. I really don't understand why they trim it so much, it would just be that much better if they didnt.

coasterbill · December 10, 2014

Alpengeist's lift doesn't bother me either, and even if they slowed the second half down a bit I still really enjoyed that part of the ride and think the ride overall is amazing. I love the snappy cobra roll and that hard snap into the mid course.

DrachenfireOP · December 10, 2014

There are definitely louder coasters out there, but it used to have a very silent lift hill, unlike this:

DrachenfireOP · December 10, 2014

Edit - double post internet fail :/

rcjp · December 10, 2014

Alpengeist's lift doesn't bother me either, and even if they slowed the second half down a bit I still really enjoyed that part of the ride and think the ride overall is amazing. I love the snappy cobra roll and that hard snap into the mid course.

I haven't ridden it but that trim on the top of the lift does look very annoying. I love these swooping drops in the back as you get whipped to the side but (based on POVs) that doesn't seem to happen with that trim. Plus the cobra roll would be even snappier if it weren't there (and so would the twist into the MCBR).

zachclarke2 · December 11, 2014

To be honest I don't think I want either the cobra roll or the bank into the mcbr to be any snappier than they are. But I'd be more than happy to take a faster second half of the ride if the mcbr engaged a little less. Wishful thinking, though.

Propeller Factory · December 11, 2014

Alpenguists lift is so loud you can't hear yourself speak it's horrible lol they need to do something about that. Also I hate how snappy it is into the mcbr but in general this is my favorite coaster that I've ridden I love it so much.

mike541x · December 11, 2014

More footage of Alpengeist in it's prime. Check out how fast it goes through the MCBR!

And some Drachen Fire footage...

A.J. · December 11, 2014

I'm disappointed that I never got to ride Alpengeist as it was back in the late 90s but it's still crazy-awesome, and my favorite inverted coaster.

rcjp · December 11, 2014

More footage of Alpengeist in it's prime. Check out how fast it goes through the MCBR!

It's a shame some rides get neutered (a little or a lot) like this (even though some of these remain great). That also reminds me of dragon khan which had a fairly big MCBR neuter this year. Was it the same with alpengeist? Was the change from one season to the other or more gradual?

Also, for those who've ridden it, does the loop feel any faster than other inverts? Because it looks (even now with the trim at the top working) that the train goes through that element faster than most other inverts. And how loud is it? Is the track filled with sand? (on some videos it looks super quiet and on other it makes some" noise). Just curious.

mike541x · December 11, 2014

^Not really sure when the ride was actually neutered. But I will say the loop does feel faster if you're riding in the front compared to other inverts I've been on (I wonder if the zero car has something to with it). As for the noise it's fairly quiet and you can tell it's filled with sand which is a shame. With a coaster this size, if it had the classic B&M roar like Great Bear or Montu, it would make this ride more intimidating IMO.

DrachenfireOP · December 11, 2014

^ Actually I remember being BLOWN AWAY by how cool this coaster sounded in 97' and really liking it. The Arrows had that "loud shaky" sound which, now I have a lot of nostalgia for, but at the time, it was really cool to hear.

I also remember how much Alpengeist spoiled the other coasters at the park for me. I waited over 2 hours to ride it the first time, and was SO UPSET that the line was so long, because the moment I got off, i couldn't wait to go again. We went over to Drachen Fire instead, and I remember how let down I was with DF after Alpengeist. In many ways, the waning popularity of DF gave it short lines, and I don't know many locals who enjoyed it anyhow, but Alpengeist was really a final nail in the coffin, showing you could have an intense ride with many inversions that didn't leave you bruised with ringing ears.

Also, as to your question about the zero car, they added that after the fact because there was some concern that the empty train was not heavy enough to complete the circuit if the train stopped on the MCBR. I don't think a train ever actually vallied in testing, but I think it was determined that it would, either late in construction, or early in testing. If they weren't already so far on in the process, I'd imagine it would have made more sense to just add a 9th row to add the weight, and increase capacity at the same time. Of course, with the added weight and speed, this means the first half of the ride flies! The zero car alone weighs 1500 lbs!

I also don't think Busch has ever intentionally "neutered" Alpengeist. I honestly think it's just however the brakes are calibrated during the off season. Some seasons it seems to trim more than others. Somewhere around 2006/2007 I seem to recall it going at "the old speed" and being really caught off guard by it the first few times.

GwaziBSRider1 · December 11, 2014

I also remember how much Alpengeist spoiled the other coasters at the park for me. I waited over 2 hours to ride it the first time, and was SO UPSET that the line was so long, because the moment I got off, i couldn't wait to go again. We went over to Drachen Fire instead, and I remember how let down I was with DF after Alpengeist. In many ways, the waning popularity of DF gave it short lines, and I don't know many locals who enjoyed it anyhow, but Alpengeist was really a final nail in the coffin, showing you could have an intense ride with many inversions that didn't leave you bruised with ringing ears.

Reading this made me think how Alpengeist is now the coaster with the shorter lines. It's a shame that it's now the most under-appreciated coaster there (even though I still maintain that it's the best). But I guess that's a good thing as well, since you can marathon it almost all the time.

DrachenfireOP · December 12, 2014

^ Agreed. It is without a doubt the best coaster in the park. Apollo is a very close second, and I could see someones argument for Apollo being the best, because they're apples and oranges, and I guess I'm more an apples kind of guy.

Griffon was without a doubt the biggest letdown of a coaster I've ever been on. I was jumping out of my skin to get on it the first time, and when I was done, it just sorta left me feeling "meh." It's not the worst coaster I've ever been on, but it definitely looks like it gives a better ride than it does. It blows my mind that people that have ridden it before are willing to wait in a long line for it. It's also a capacity nightmare. I don't know why BGW didn't go for the SheiKra style double station. I know it's a short ride, but even when the crew is hustling, I feel like I see the trains fully stacked more often than not. It makes it look even worse compared to Verbolten, which is honestly one of the fastest moving lines I've ever been in.

TyRush · December 12, 2014

Both times I went to BGW I just used the Griffion single rider line, saved plenty of time

A.J. · December 12, 2014

Reading this made me think how Alpengeist is now the coaster with the shorter lines. It's a shame that it's now the most under-appreciated coaster there (even though I still maintain that it's the best).

I'm not so sure about that, I would consider Loch Ness Monster as the coaster with the shorter lines. It's the only major coaster in the park that doesn't use quick queue because quite frankly I'm not sure it never needs it.

Also, Alpengeist's mid-course brake did slow the train down but, at least this season, still kept the train going fast enough to whip through the zero-G and the corkscrew. It did kind of meander after that though.

MrSum1_55 · December 12, 2014

^I actually thought that Alpie's brakes killed the second half of the ride for me. (I rode two years ago). I have never seen any other ride go from blackout forces to meandering to the end that quickly. When I saw that one of the last features is the helix, I was excited, as B&M does know how to make a great final helix. But, this element had barely any forces at all. Without the intense breaking, this would probably be my favorite invert.

My favorite coaster in the park is probably Griffon. But, not even for the front row. On dive machines, I actually think that the back row is the most thrilling. The visuals in the front are cool, but the drop is hindered by the extra drag in the rows behind you, resulting in a "floaty" feeling down the drop, at best. The back row, however, gives you a shot of air at the top, causing you to remain stuck to the top of the restraint the whole way down the drop. The second drop is far better in the back as well. And, I do not really care about any of the other features of this ride other than the two vertical drops.

DrachenfireOP · December 12, 2014

^ It sounds like you got a bad year for trims. Some years are really bad, others not so bad, but I will tell you, that helix has always been a bit slow, even in the early days. I never minded, because the zero G role to the intense wingover is enough for me, but if you caught it on a year with less trims, I don't think you'd find much difference after the wingover unfortunately. That said, the two inversions after the breaks can be INSANE when it trims less.