Busch Gardens Williamsburg (BGW BGE) Discussion Thread

[Top Thrill Dragster]

Maybe Busch decided to add this instead of a flat ride. This ride has to have a lot more marketing potential compared to a flat ride.

 

And maybe once the ride is through its first couple of seasons, the demand dies down to what you could expect with a big flat ride.

[cfc]

^It will probably have better capacity than Mach Tower!

 

That's true of most of the benches at BGW.

[CPSFMMCW]

Plans were released. Found on the BGWfans website. Looks like its definitely superman ultimate flight.

[gerstlaueringvar]

Just being crazy, but does the definition of a clone include different size? BGW could certainly build an 200+ft one with a three cars or even four cars train.

 

So far, I don't really think BGW can't figure out a way to increase the capacity.

[Password121]

From http://screamscape.com/html/busch_gardens_williamsburg.htm it seems that it will be an exact clone. BGW put in plans for a 150ft. Attraction, so it doesn't seem to be changing. Also, outside of a dual loading station, which the article says likely isn't happening, theoretical capacity (actual bases on efficiency, breakdowns, etc.) can't be changed, unless the train is extended, which probably wouldn't happen, unfortunately.

[CPSFMMCW]

I think if they wanted, they could extend the trains, but a dual loading station is out of the question. Just look at the plans. We would've seen it there if it were included.

[soldier148]

This idea just doesn't sit well with me.

[thrillseeker4552]

^Same. BGW just got a launched coaster a few years ago. And this one is quite low capacity. It just wouldn't look good or fit well in the park.

 

And I don't think they could extend the trains. Cresting those sharp peaks and sharp drops would most-likely cause too many negative Gs in the back when going down and too many negative Gs when cresting the top in the front seat.

[rcjp]

^You're right, the layout doesn't seem to be made for longer trains. A dual station would be the only way.

[KBrylczyk]

I don't see why you guys are complaining about the possibility that the ride could be a Superman-clone. I mean, Holiday Park added one and nobody called them "Six Flags Holiday Park". I haven't ridden Superman: Ultimate Flight, but it looks like a really fun ride that would be awesome with themeing.

 

Holiday Park doesn't have nearly the amount of guests that BGW does. I've not ridden one of these rides myself but they do look very fun, as you said. The concern on most people's minds here is the crippling capacity. We're talking less than 300 people per hour with quick dispatches. Meanwhile Alpie, Apollo, Nessie, Griffon, Verbolten, etc, all can pump over 1,000 people per hour. When those lines get above 2 hours with that capacity, can you imagine what this would end up with?

 

Again, nothing against the experience of the ride. Busch will definitely be able to make it pretty and I'm sure it's a lot of fun, it's just a poor choice for a park of this size.

[coasterfreak101]

Huh...I'm really interested to see how they make this work (and how they can spin it as a good decision).

[cal1br3tto]

I'm not totally on board with any complaints about this being a clone (are there many?). As an enthusiast, it won't draw me to the park, so I understand the disappointment for us folks. And I guess they won't have any claims to "first" or "only," unless it's regional or they can wring out some arcane record. Otherwise, not the biggest issue for me.

 

All the evidence posted is from public records like planning documents, correct?

[CPSFMMCW]

I took the liberty of applying the plans to a google earth view of festa Italia.

Red: queue

Yellow: exit

Blue: ride

Green: station

 

The only other thing that it might effect is they might remove one of those yellow/orange buildings on the right so that the blue could be extended. If it isn't to be removed, then the blue is the correct size of the ride.

[coasterfreak101]

^The problem isn't so much that it's a clone (though the Busch parks should be held to a higher and more creative standard, which they usually live up to) - it's that it's a clone that holds twelve riders per two-minute cycle. Busch Gardens has significantly higher attendance figures (2.85 million in 2012; I can't find SFDK's but Six Flags' highest-attended park was SFMM at 2.7 million) and something that might fly at SFDK is not going to work out at a park like BGW without modifications.

[Password121]

I'm really not liking how packed in this will be next to Apollo's Chariot. Looks like less than 50 feet or so from the lift. I've always been a believer that coasters should be spaced out somewhat evenly for aesthetic purposes and balance in the park to disperse crowds. This look like Busch Gardnes just wanted to add a coaster to a quality collection, and this won't live up those standards.

[Intimidator305]

I'm really not liking how packed in this will be next to Apollo's Chariot. Looks like less than 50 feet or so from the lift. I've always been a believer that coasters should be spaced out somewhat evenly for aesthetic purposes and balance in the park to disperse crowds. This look like Busch Gardnes just wanted to add a coaster to a quality collection, and this won't live up those standards.

 

This is my main concern. Of course capacity is going to be a pain in the @$$, but the fact that you will now be driving into the so-called "world's most beautiful theme park" with a mess of tacky colored steel combined just ruins to overall feel BGW strives for.

 

But after seeing the additions of Mach Tower and Verbolten, this doesn't surprise me at all...

[coasterfreak101]

Don't always agree with Lance, but this pretty much sums it up:

 

While this is an excellent ride for a smaller park like SFDK, it really does not have the capacity required for a large park like Busch Gardens Williamsburg. For those not aware, the trains are small… only two cars long, each one holding six riders, for a total of 12 per train… and due to the design it can only run one train at a time. A little quick math will tell you that if they can manage to dispatch a train cycle every 3 minutes, the ride only has an hourly capacity of 240 riders per hour. Now compare this to the theoretical capacity of Apollo’s Chariot, which is said to be capable of up to 1,750 riders per hour. It hardly seems fair doesn’t it? Even if the park is open for 14 hours (10am to Midnight), assuming zero downtime, this new coaster will only thrill 3,500 park guests maximum in a single day. When the park racks up 18,000 to 30,000 guests a day during the busy summer season, only a fraction of the park’s guests will be able to ride this thing.

 

http://screamscape.com/html/busch_gardens_williamsburg.htm

[soldier148]

Maybe when I start my internship I'll convince them to change their plans. What they need is another country, like Spain or something.

[redfoot12]

Maybe when I start my internship I'll convince them to change their plans. What they need is another country, like Spain or something.

 

If one intern can have that much impact then Busch Gardens may be in more trouble than I thought.

[netdvn]

Since everyone's knocking the ride, I'm gonna go out on a limb and play devil's advocate.

 

1. We still don't know if this is gonna be a common clone or a custom layout. That design model looks like it can easily be customized to the park's wishes. All we know is a coaster is going on that spot similar to Superman/Sky Scream. Another case of I'm gonna wait and see what the park has in store before knocking anyone/anything.

 

2. The Busch chain is no stranger to common clones. Scorpion, Wild Maus, and two of the three Texas coasters are clones. If the cloned coaster is good enough, I could care less about what goes in that spot. I don't care what everyone thinks.

 

3. It's low capacity. While I would rather vouch for a higher capacity ride, plenty of major parks have added low capacity rides in the past. Hypersonic, Firehawk, Daredevil Dive, Green Lantern First Flight, Mystery Mine, Stunt Coaster, Volcano, etc... All low capacity rides. If you visit at the right times, you won't even have to worry about lines to begin with.

 

4. OK fine, it's up against another coaster. Knowing the park, they'll theme it up and make it look nice. Not a huge deal. Plus the roller coaster crossing has three coasters literally on top of each other, yet people like that. Having another coaster in Festa should hopefully push crowds out of Germany and distribute them around the park a little better.

 

5. Splashus Maximus was rarely ever used when I'd walk by it. Even during the hot season. Plus the balloons end up all over the place, are a pain to clean, and they're terrible for the environment. I'm surprised the park hasn't removed that thing earlier.

[redfoot12]

I actually have no problem with the type of ride in discussion. It looks like fun and I'm sure will be a hit with park goers. Hopefully BGW has plans to address capacity issues as well.

I'm more concerned with the overall direction of the park since it left Anheuser-Busch's hands. While I think it was a fun ride, I don't think Verbolten was necessarily the hit the park was hoping for after sinking $56 million into it and seeing only a 4% increase in attendance. I'm not sure if people would go so far as to call it a failure, but Mach Tower doesn't seem like it was a hit either. I haven't been following BGW too closely over the past few years but I do sense a general malaise among long time fans and the direction the park is going.

Anyway, I haven't been to the park since 2012. I'm looking forward to a trip or two this spring and summer.

[cfc]

I'm more concerned with the overall direction of the park since it left Anheuser-Busch's hands. While I think it was a fun ride, I don't think Verbolten was necessarily the hit the park was hoping for after sinking $56 million into it and seeing only a 4% increase in attendance. I'm not sure if people would go so far as to call it a failure, but Mach Tower doesn't seem like it was a hit either. I haven't been following BGW too closely over the past few years but I do sense a general malaise among long time fans and the direction the park is going.

 

While Mach Tower was, indeed, a debacle, Verbolten has been quite a hit with visitors, and has been quite popular (the only real griping I've heard about the coaster has been among coaster enthusiasts, but let's face it--that's the enthusiast community for you). The park did make some mistakes with shows. Entwined hasn't exactly been a "hit."

 

But I live in Williamsburg, and I haven't detected a "general malaise among long time fans" (at least not among locals).

[redfoot12]

I'm more concerned with the overall direction of the park since it left Anheuser-Busch's hands. While I think it was a fun ride, I don't think Verbolten was necessarily the hit the park was hoping for after sinking $56 million into it and seeing only a 4% increase in attendance. I'm not sure if people would go so far as to call it a failure, but Mach Tower doesn't seem like it was a hit either. I haven't been following BGW too closely over the past few years but I do sense a general malaise among long time fans and the direction the park is going.

 

While Mach Tower was, indeed, a debacle, Verbolten has been quite a hit with visitors, and has been quite popular (the only real griping I've heard about the coaster has been among coaster enthusiasts, but let's face it--that's the enthusiast community for you). The park did make some mistakes with shows. Entwined hasn't exactly been a "hit."

 

But I live in Williamsburg, and I haven't detected a "general malaise among long time fans" (at least not among locals).

 

I think the "malaise" mainly stems from some of the fan sites, like the one linked to earlier in this thread. The author of that article does bring up some good points but I'm wondering if it's just a case of people expecting a brand new expansion, like a new country, and then only getting a "low capacity clone" for their worries.

Again, I think BGW will put their own spin on this attraction and I think I will enjoy it regardless of the issues brought up. I've liked the majority of Premier rides I've ridden and nothing from these "clones" says anything different to me.

[cfc]

^"New country" rumors have been knocking around for years (and, no doubt, will knock around for years to come). And you've pointed out my main reason for staying away from "one-park fansites"--they're just a wee bit obsessive. (I prefer TPR's more "global" approach.)

 

I'm a "wait-and-see" type of person. I think there's a tendency to "hope for the best, expect the worst" on many fansites (not just park-related ones, either).

[aCoasterStory]

I think BGT is an excellent park; one of the best parks around, even. But BGW doesn't quite have that same level of awesomeness about it. Verbolten's a cool ride and all, but it's not a top-10 coaster like i305 just down the road or even as much fun as Cheetah Hunt at BGT. Alpengeist is one of my least favorite inverts (conversely, Montu is right at the top of my list, pending a ride on Banshee). While Loch Ness Monster is one of the best Arrow coasters, it's still an Arrow coaster. Apollo's Chariot blew my mind when I first rode it in spring 2002. But it doesn't have that WOW factor anymore.

 

They need a ride with that WOW factor. And while this proposed ride might have that, the capacity looks to be such a nightmare that I just don't think the end result will be all that great. I suppose if you think of it more like a flat then it might not be all that bad, but the low capacity may still be disappointing.

 

And I'm not trying to say that BGW is a bad park by any stretch. It's not. It just doesn't stand up too well to direct head-to-head comparisons with its sister park.