Kentucky Kingdom (SFKK, KK) Discussion Thread

[Midgetman82]

Nope, sounds like it will stay... for now. God only knows when a problem with the ride will arise.

[Jerrykoala2112]

Kentucky Kingdom posted a very interesting video showing park attendance when Ed Hart was the manager between 1990-1998, then showing Six Flags operating the parks between 1998-2009. Honestly, Kentucky Kingdom seems to be throwing Six Flags under the bus, but I don't see why not! Hopefully, Ed Hart can once again make attendance spike back up like he did in the 90's. Here's the video...

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MEpeyqjV1Y

 

I love how the speaker says "Mile High Falls"

[Ace Of Spades]

I only had two problems with that otherwise good video:

1) Removing Hellevator was not really their choice. After the bad publicity it got from the good old slice-and-dice incident, the drop tower pretty much had to be removed.

2) Greezed Lightnin' was called outdated and unliked, and yet somehow many claimed it was the best coaster at the park.

 

In any event, the presentation does show that if Ed Hart can get back in the groove he had in the 1990's, the park could very well have an epic, epic rebound come 2011 and beyond.

[Midgetman82]

Greezed Lightnin' is a nice coaster to ride, but I always find the line empty for some reason (That fact I love! More re-rides for me!).

[spaceace12]

GL was the second best coaster in the park behind Chang.......When I was there, the only line was for the twins and it was because of bad operations.

[CoasterGuy06]

It's funny they single out Greezed Lightnin for helping with the park's decline, when it was the exact same coaster SFOG's investment group sited as a poor addition when they sued Time Warner.

[mudvayneimn]

I personally considered GL the second best ride in the park (once TR really went to hell in a hand basket) but seriously, It was a dead ride to the GP. The weekend after opening weekend I managed to get 68 rides IN A ROW on it. In 2004 I tried it again and my niece and I got in over 120 cycles in a 2 day span, each day we were able to run a marathon.

 

I definitely didn't agree with the way they positioned the Hellevator removal or the GL addition but it made me realize the overall reason for the "throw SF under the bus" tone. With the short term history of KK, people got used to every other year there being something crazy and fresh to check out. Under SF management, rides were removed (understandable) but nothing of significant importance was added. For us coaster geeks, GL was a welcomed addition, but that wasn't what the GP around here were used to out of KK. If an impulse actually had been built, I think the park would've seen another boost in attendance, as that would've been something unique to this area, and with NO inversions, couldn't be compared to the Vampire. With GL you got a launch, loop, hill, loop, slow down. Most of the people I was around didn't care for it just because "Vampire had more loops" and the launch couldn't make up for it. Believe it or not, people LOVED the Vampire, even with it's "curse". Getting stuck on Vampire gave you bragging rights, people still love to claim they got stuck on Vampire in one of the loops around here! GL couldn't compare in their eyes and while it was another coaster, you couldn't say it was better than anything KI already had at that point.

 

I feel like SF screwed up understanding the park demographic. When I was growing up (pre-1999) it broke down to this, if you wanted quiet family fun you went to HW (Beechbend really wasn't on the map). If you wanted many different options for everyone in the family, you took the trip to KI. If you wanted the biggest collection of the most intense rides you will find within an hour drive (At the time KI had The Beast, FOF, Vortex, and I won't count King Cobra bc Chang obliterated it) you went to KK. That was the view my friends, family, most of my school mates, and I had on the parks in this area. Like I stated earlier, people here love to brag, and that's what KK let us do in the 90s! All you heard around here was T2 is better than Top Gun (seriously what people said in the first 3-4 years of it's life), Chang is better than King Cobra, Vampire is better than Vortex because it goes backwards, and Hellevator is better than the Eiffel Tower! When KI started adding to their thrill collection in 1999 and SFKK began to remove some and not add anything significant, it became more logical to go to KI, and that's what we did.

 

/longest post of the year for me.

[Jew]

So basically...Ed Hart had success with constant capital additions when he didn't really have any competition. Go figure.

[traincrossin]

So basically...Ed Hart had success with constant capital additions when he didn't really have any competition. Go figure.

Do you think that same strategy will still work when the reopen Kentucky Kingdom with competition in the area?

[CoasterGuy06]

I understand using the removal of Hellvator because it did cause a decrease in attendance. The ride was not properly maintained which led to a MAJOR accident that made nationwide news. This led to its removal and a black eye for the park.

 

Now my question is if the park is SO dependent on major additions, what are they going to do when the park runs out of space in say....well, now really.

[Jerrykoala2112]

So basically...Ed Hart had success with constant capital additions when he didn't really have any competition. Go figure.

 

I still think Kings Island was tough competition with Kentucky Kingdom. They too seemed to be adding capital investments every year, but we only saw a video of Kentucky Kingdoms attendance growth and decline.

 

I wish I could see these charts from every park, I find them pretty interesting!

 

I understand using the removal of Hellvator because it did cause a decrease in attendance. The ride was not properly maintained which led to a MAJOR accident that made nationwide news. This led to its removal and a black eye for the park.

 

Now my question is if the park is SO dependent on major additions, what are they going to do when the park runs out of space in say....well, now really.

 

Well, Ed Hart said on his YouTube videos that the Chang area will be used for the water park expansions, but the front side of the park where Greezed Lightning is where the new B&M is going to. Removing the unpopular attractions is an option too, but the B&M is the only major ride they're adding. They're spending 3 million to fix up Twisted Twins and getting new trains! So, adding a new coaster isn't too bad.

[coasterdude5]

As said many times here, if a park wants to build a big attraction such as a coaster, they'll find the room. And finding room doesn't always mean taking out other attractions. With a little creativity and perhaps some shifting around, alot can be fit into a tight space.

 

/Wow that last sentence sounded great.

[Midgetman82]

^^The area SkyCoaster and Road Runner stood.

 

Call me crazy, but I think it would be possible to get rid of the Top Elim. Dragsters and use that area for the station of a roller coaster that passes over Blizzard River or Thunder Run. Just a crazy thought.

 

Are they going to use this area to be the parking lot since parking will be free?

[Jew]

Of course it will still work. The real issue is going to be the cost of all these new additions. It's a whole different landscape now: Holiday World is a major player, Beech Bend appears to making a serious commitment to expand their amusement business, and obviously Kings Island has been pretty consistent in adding major rides every few years as well. Plus the addition of indoor waterparks to the region.

 

In order to make an impact in what is now a much more crowded market, they are going to have to spend more on major rides (a splashdown boat or drop tower won't cut it anymore) and spend more to market those major rides. He's already backing himself into an expensive corner by talking such a big game, which is probably why he's asking for a $50 millon bond to pay for the first wave of expansion/renovation...at least that way he isn't losing too much of his own money if he can't sustain this plan of constant major additions!

Edited December 28, 2010 by Jew

[Midgetman82]

I'm sure with what Ed Hart has planned, people in and near the Louisville area will be very satisfied with KK and keep coming back. What it looks to me is that Ed is trying to do what he did before Premier took over, get more people from outside Kentucky to come to the park.

[mudvayneimn]

All Ed has to do is continue to add a ride every other year, or two. Something that is unique to the area or a bigger/better version of what HW or KI has (flat ride speaking). What happened last time is that the additions pretty much flat-lined, and that also led to the luke-warm reception GL received. Because of Ed's 10-year expansion plan, when it came time for "coaster talk" in 2002, everybody thought something big, or at least substantial was coming since the park had gone without a major-thrilling coaster since 1998. That was why GL never really got too much of a chance with the normal folks here. It was not enough thrill, and a little too late.

 

Anyway, there is an actual reason (other than my personal hopes) I'm betting KK can/will be successful again. My family have a "formula" for making trips to the regional parks, and it's one that most of the families I know do also. We plan for 3 trips to visit the amusement parks around here a year. The one (or two) that do add rides will get the first visits. Now if ride stands out and blows away expectations, the third park that didn't add anything runs the risk of being skipped for the year to make a second trip to the park with the "best new ride". Since my family didn't really care for the water park, and HW and KI started offering more and more, SFKK was only visited during the State Fair....maybe. As long as there is something new to check out at the park every other year, and ride additions don't fall of the face of the Earth, KK could become a healthy, profitable park again.

[redfoot12]

I think there is an incredible opportunity here for KK to get back in the game. That chart shows that there's a history of the park's bringing in crowds and distancing themselves from what happened when Six Flags ran the park is a smart move. It's just going to take a unique new marquee attraction and a strong regional marketing campaign. Having never visited the park, I'll be going regardless during its first year operating again.

[Chroniq]

So basically...Ed Hart had success with constant capital additions when he didn't really have any competition. Go figure.

Do you think that same strategy will still work when the reopen Kentucky Kingdom with competition in the area?

 

 

Joey- You need to be praised for your intelligent thoughts more often.. I just saw this video on Screamscape and was going to post essentially what you already posted.

 

The youtube video mentions that new rides brought new guests to the theme park. I believe the largest increase was 200,000 year over year.

 

If you build a new ride every year that will pull in guests but also not break the bank, you are probably looking at around 3-5,000,000 each year. If you are building a new ride every year you can't amortize the costs as you have to pay for another new ride the following year. So if a new ride brings in 200,000 new guests and prevents a loss of a 100,000 , you are paying between 10 and 20 dollars for each new guest. These are really conservative numbers.

 

The average guest spend at these cheaper regional is 50 dollars (being very generous with my numbers). Overhead is typically 80 percent.. So your net profit is around 10 dollars. But wait! You have to pay for that new ride.. See my point?

[lilsam1993]

So basically...Ed Hart had success with constant capital additions when he didn't really have any competition. Go figure.

 

IMO, Holiday World and Beech Bend arent close to being competitors with Kentucky Kingdom. Kentucky Kingdom did have competition back in the day and that was Kings Island. Kings Island and Kentucky Kingdom went head and head each season. When Six Flags took over the park Kings Island added the action zone and later the son of beast. Then Six Flags gave up on Kentucky Kingdom and focused on other Six Flags parks.

[Midgetman82]

Holiday World is a competitor because of their water park, that is what it looks like to me.

[Jew]

^I'm glad someone else finally understands. I just hope the fair board will negotiate a lease that ensures the interest payments on the bond are paid out before Ed Hart gets to touch any profit from the park.

[lilsam1993]

Holiday World is a competitor because of their water park, that is what it looks like to me.

 

Remember, Ed doesn't really won't a water park, he just want a ride park/thrill park. Holiday World in my opinion really doesn't have much to offer in the ride department. Don't more people go for rides than water anyways?

[ernierocker]

^Don't underestimate the draw of water parks.

[Jerrykoala2112]

Holiday World is a competitor because of their water park, that is what it looks like to me.

 

Remember, Ed doesn't really won't a water park, he just want a ride park/thrill park.

 

Yeah, that's why he's doubling the size of the water park

 

Holiday World is a competitor because of their water park, that is what it looks like to me.

 

Don't more people go for rides than water anyways?

 

And the water park industry is expanding while the theme park industry is shrinking, so it could go either way. Most people go to Kentucky Kingdom for the water park anyways, the ride park is really lacking (but that could all change under Ed's management)

[The_Mad_Hatter]

/\/\/\First, didn't he say there will be a water park expansion?

 

Also, water slides can be thrilling, especially now. I think slides fit the ride category as well.