Sfne1313 Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 ^ I agree that it would be great for this park. Not for a few years though until they know for sure they will stay open. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaron88stang Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 This article says Six Flags spent 6 Million on theirs. http://abc7news.com/archive/8719601/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diamondbacker27 Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 ^ I agree that it would be great for this park. Not for a few years though until they know for sure they will stay open. Not necessarily, Ed's all about rides. He says that the reason KK was so successful before Six Flags was because they added many rides and coasters. Six Flags just removed, ending in the park's closure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lbeeler Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 This would look amazing on the skyline in my opinion.How much do these cost anyways? as long as its this version and not the one that just goes in a single loop im all in for it lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midgetman82 Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 There's that, and maybe then S&S will have their version ready. It may have lower capacity compared to Premier's but it's an option as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoasterGuy06 Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 ^ I agree that it would be great for this park. Not for a few years though until they know for sure they will stay open. Not necessarily, Ed's all about rides. He says that the reason KK was so successful before Six Flags was because they added many rides and coasters. Six Flags just removed, ending in the park's closure. Ed tends to also leave out the fact that KK had over $60 million in debt that his group had racked up that Six Flags became responsible for when they took over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Farmer Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Nothing too much has been said about the trains, but from what I remember, there's a chance they're not going to be Vekoma. There's only a few manufacturers that could build new chassis for this SLC, but really Vekoma or Kumbak are really the only ones that could make decent trains for this, unless they decide to bring in Premier to design the train, then we're all in trouble. Rocky Mountain It. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diamondbacker27 Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 ^ I agree that it would be great for this park. Not for a few years though until they know for sure they will stay open. Not necessarily, Ed's all about rides. He says that the reason KK was so successful before Six Flags was because they added many rides and coasters. Six Flags just removed, ending in the park's closure. Ed tends to also leave out the fact that KK had over $60 million in debt that his group had racked up that Six Flags became responsible for when they took over. Your the only place I've ever heard this from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoasterCard Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 ^ I agree that it would be great for this park. Not for a few years though until they know for sure they will stay open. Not necessarily, Ed's all about rides. He says that the reason KK was so successful before Six Flags was because they added many rides and coasters. Six Flags just removed, ending in the park's closure. Ed tends to also leave out the fact that KK had over $60 million in debt that his group had racked up that Six Flags became responsible for when they took over. Your the only place I've ever heard this from. Hart didn't sell his rights to Six Flags. He sold to Premier Parks, and I can find no record of there being a $60M debt anywhere. Premier may have acquired $60M in debt in order to purchase the operating rights (which I can't find that number anywhere either) but as far as my research has shown, they didn't acquire debt from Kentucky Kingdom. In fact, Hart, early in his first tenure, made the park profitable and paid off the park's debts accrued by the previous operator. I will keep looking, but I am unable to find anything as of now that points to that large of a debt when he left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoasterGuy06 Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Found the article I get the information from. The debt was actually $52 million that Premier took on plus the park's original investors received stock in Premier Parks. Article here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSkysTheLimit Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Kentucky Kingdom was never in debt the previous time Ed Hart owned the park. The Fair Board would never let him back in if that was true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midgetman82 Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 ^Well, that's definitely what happened the first time he tried to get the park back. But then when everybody else got scared away by the Fair Board, his group was one of the very few left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoasterGuy06 Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 The park certainly had debt. Almost all parks do. How else do you think they were able to by a Vekoma SLC, Intamin Drop ride, and the world's tallest B&M stand up coaster in three seasons? As long as you are current on payments you are fine, but at a certain point taking out millions a year for new attractions will cause you to reach the point where you can no longer keep up on your payments (see Six Flags back in 2010). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoasterCard Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 After some more research, that debt number is correct. However, that size debt appears to be normal for a park attracting over 1M guest per year. The only time the debt becomes an issue is when your revenue isn't high enough to cover the cost of your debt payments.(EDIT: Coasterguy06 beat me to it) When he left the park, it was making plenty of money to cover the debt load or else the ownership would never have been deemed as desirable as it was in 1997. The state dodged a HUGE bullet by having Hart around to call out the HW ownership group that wanted to bury Bluegrass Boardwalk and increase HW's profits. KY would have ended up giving the rights to a group that would just turn around and say "It's not possible to reopen this park." So regardless of whether or not the Fair Board was leery of Hart's original plan, the park has opened, and appears to be in the hands of someone that genuinely cares about its success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSkysTheLimit Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Yeah good point but attendance was up and the park was headed for the right direction even if Premier Parks/Six Flags didn't add rides they would have been fine with attendance still around 1 million but Six Flags removed rides and people did not like that and stop coming which caused what happened in 2010. EDIT: The first time they did choose Ed Hart to operate the park they just wasn't interested with the idea of him borrowing money from the state to finance the project. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodie Warrior Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 ^^I find it hard to believe the crew at Holiday World would purchase a park just to run it into the ground. Especially one like KK which needed (and still needs) a lot of work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kentuckycc Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Yeah good point but attendance was up and the park was headed for the right direction even if Premier Parks/Six Flags didn't add rides they would have been fine with attendance still around 1 million but Six Flags removed rides and people did not like that and stop coming which caused what happened in 2010. EDIT: The first time they did choose Ed Hart to operate the park they just wasn't interested with the idea of him borrowing money from the state to finance the project. Worse than removing/not adding any rides, they let the park go to crap. It was dirty, faded, rides had half finished themes and advertisements. There just was nothing good going for the park during the six flags era, and the park got a terrible repuation, which was well deserved. Really the whole six flags brand got a bad reputation during/prior to the premier bankruptcy. It will take a few seasons of good rides and atmosphere to turn this around. This year seemed like a good start though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midgetman82 Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Yeah good point but attendance was up and the park was headed for the right direction even if Premier Parks/Six Flags didn't add rides they would have been fine with attendance still around 1 million but Six Flags removed rides and people did not like that and stop coming which caused what happened in 2010. EDIT: The first time they did choose Ed Hart to operate the park they just wasn't interested with the idea of him borrowing money from the state to finance the project. Worse than removing/not adding any rides, they let the park go to crap. It was dirty, faded, rides had half finished themes and advertisements. There just was nothing good going for the park during the six flags era, and the park got a terrible repuation, which was well deserved. Really the whole six flags brand got a bad reputation during/prior to the premier bankruptcy. It will take a few seasons of good rides and atmosphere to turn this around. This year seemed like a good start though! Not to completely defend Six Flags for much of the choices they made in that era (and I think there had been a similar conversation here many moons ago on the same topic), but there was a very late point in time when the park started looking better (mostly in '09). Things were a bit cleaner, and there was far more greenery (large bushes and trees) to remove the urban feeling of the surrounding area outside of the park. A friend and I had actually bumped into the park manager at that time and we talked for a little before continuing. But you're right for the most part. It was far too late for the park, because the dirty (a better suited, but more distasteful term used was "ghetto") reputation that had built-up before then had already stuck, so people didn't like to visit for many of the reasons you listed. The park looks 100x better now than what is used to look like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSkysTheLimit Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Yeah good point but attendance was up and the park was headed for the right direction even if Premier Parks/Six Flags didn't add rides they would have been fine with attendance still around 1 million but Six Flags removed rides and people did not like that and stop coming which caused what happened in 2010. EDIT: The first time they did choose Ed Hart to operate the park they just wasn't interested with the idea of him borrowing money from the state to finance the project. Worse than removing/not adding any rides, they let the park go to crap. It was dirty, faded, rides had half finished themes and advertisements. There just was nothing good going for the park during the six flags era, and the park got a terrible repuation, which was well deserved. Really the whole six flags brand got a bad reputation during/prior to the premier bankruptcy. It will take a few seasons of good rides and atmosphere to turn this around. This year seemed like a good start though! Exactly I strongly agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajfelice Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 As much as I support continuous expansion or upgrades for any park, I still question the long-term outlook for Kentucky Kingdom. No doubt the park has come back in a roaring fashion, and I applaud their efforts. However, a park that size in that market is likely unable to continue to expand at their current rate. Of course the first few years will be front-loaded as old rides come back to life and new rides are added in, but I then wonder what Kentucky Kingdom's core competency will be a few years down the road in a market sandwiched by the epitome of guest service, Holiday World, and arguably one of the very best regional parks, Kings Island. It just seems like a slippery slope to be always obligated to invest at least $1 million dollars in "upgrades" annually. That number might not sound like a lot when you compare it to other parks, but the size and scope of Kentucky Kingdom makes me worry about such an obligation. Two rainy or cool summers in a row, and that extra "upgrade" money will become very hard to come up with. I hope my questioning is wrong, but a leasing agreement with a State Fair Board just discourages me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoasterCard Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 As much as I support continuous expansion or upgrades for any park, I still question the long-term outlook for Kentucky Kingdom. No doubt the park has come back in a roaring fashion, and I applaud their efforts. However, a park that size in that market is likely unable to continue to expand at their current rate. Of course the first few years will be front-loaded as old rides come back to life and new rides are added in, but I then wonder what Kentucky Kingdom's core competency will be a few years down the road in a market sandwiched by the epitome of guest service, Holiday World, and arguably one of the very best regional parks, Kings Island. It just seems like a slippery slope to be always obligated to invest at least $1 million dollars in "upgrades" annually. That number might not sound like a lot when you compare it to other parks, but the size and scope of Kentucky Kingdom makes me worry about such an obligation. Two rainy or cool summers in a row, and that extra "upgrade" money will become very hard to come up with. I hope my questioning is wrong, but a leasing agreement with a State Fair Board just discourages me. The park has always been leased from the Fair Board and Hart and his investors have planned to spend $70M over the term of the lease. Yes KK is between 2 major parks, but that doesn't mean it can't carve out its own Niche. I've said all along that KK needs to install unique rides. People may not choose to go to your park OVER their annual trip to Kings Island or Holiday World, but they may choose to go instead of other local non-amusement park attractions if you offer them something different. The biggest problem that the current staff is fighting against currently is the Six Flags perception of the park. It's not one that is easy to shake, but given time, I think that will change. Kentucky Kingdom is never going to overtake either of the surrounding parks as a "destination," but I do believe it can be a great park that serves the city of Louisville and provides visitors with a fun way to spend a day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kentuckycc Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 As much as I support continuous expansion or upgrades for any park, I still question the long-term outlook for Kentucky Kingdom. No doubt the park has come back in a roaring fashion, and I applaud their efforts. However, a park that size in that market is likely unable to continue to expand at their current rate. Of course the first few years will be front-loaded as old rides come back to life and new rides are added in, but I then wonder what Kentucky Kingdom's core competency will be a few years down the road in a market sandwiched by the epitome of guest service, Holiday World, and arguably one of the very best regional parks, Kings Island. It just seems like a slippery slope to be always obligated to invest at least $1 million dollars in "upgrades" annually. That number might not sound like a lot when you compare it to other parks, but the size and scope of Kentucky Kingdom makes me worry about such an obligation. Two rainy or cool summers in a row, and that extra "upgrade" money will become very hard to come up with. I hope my questioning is wrong, but a leasing agreement with a State Fair Board just discourages me. The park has always been leased from the Fair Board and Hart and his investors have planned to spend $70M over the term of the lease. Yes KK is between 2 major parks, but that doesn't mean it can't carve out its own Niche. I've said all along that KK needs to install unique rides. People may not choose to go to your park OVER their annual trip to Kings Island or Holiday World, but they may choose to go instead of other local non-amusement park attractions if you offer them something different. The biggest problem that the current staff is fighting against currently is the Six Flags perception of the park. It's not one that is easy to shake, but given time, I think that will change. Kentucky Kingdom is never going to overtake either of the surrounding parks as a "destination," but I do believe it can be a great park that serves the city of Louisville and provides visitors with a fun way to spend a day. I for sure think there is room in the market for KK. Kings island is a good 2hour drive from louisvilke, so it's had to make a day trip there. I bought a season pass for KI once and just couldn't go often enought to really justify it. The water park expansion was a grea idea. Locals get tired of rides, but a good waterpark will keep local families buying season passes year after year. Holiday world also had a terrific water park, but I don't want to drive so far when I just want to spend a few hours Putin the sun on a Saturday. As far as the dry park, I like where they seems to be going. KK doesn't need a 300ft BM or anything. Smal unique rides will rides could really put the park on the map. Lightning run was a GREAT start! But it wouldn't have worked out for KI or holiday world anywhere near as well IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lbeeler Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 does anyone know if FearFall has LED's? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kentuckycc Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 does anyone know if FearFall has LED's? I'm 99% sure it doesn't. I like the light packages, but I have mixed feelings about them on permanant attractions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lbeeler Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 does anyone know if FearFall has LED's? I'm 99% sure it doesn't. I like the light packages, but I have mixed feelings about them on permanant attractions. cool i saw other versions with LEDS didnt know 100% if it did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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