ebl Posted July 5, 2009 Share Posted July 5, 2009 Dare we even try to bring up safety on our highways? The WDW monorail is INCREDIBLY safer than that, and we continue to drive cars, don't we? Disney will figure this out and make any needed changes to get their system back to operation as soon as possible. As for front seat rides, that may be suspended for awhile. I did get one back in 2006 between Epcot and the TTC. I wonder if they'll make changes to strengthen the cab portion of the trains, similar to what some commuter lines are doing to their cab cars (used when locomotives are pushing the train from behind)? While I doubt texting or cell phone use was an issue here, I do agree that it is becoming a problem more and more (the September 2008 Metrolink crash in Chatsworth CA comes to mind). My sympathies are with the family of Austin Wuennenberg. Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megamatt Posted July 5, 2009 Share Posted July 5, 2009 The answer to this is obvious: Get rid of the human drivers. This should all be done by computers. I'm not 100% sure about this, but I had always thought that the monorails were mostly computer operated and the programming wasn't supposed to allow something like this to happen. Anyone else here who works at the resort know for sure? --Robb EDIT - Nevermind, I see that BeemerBoy already answered this on the last page. Thanks, Scott! I dont work for a WDW but I know a lot about trains. The track has blocks on it just like a roller coaster. Each block is one train length. When a train comes within 2 blocks of another train on the same track(or in this case rail) it should come to a complete stop automaticly. Block Systems have been used by railroads since the 1930's, and backup systems like the one I described have been used since the 90's. Because of the age of the system it may not be pratical to completly computerise the monorail trains, this would require millions and at least a year without any use of the monorail. My prediction is that this was human error, and due to the short length the monorails run they are not equipped with a backup deadman system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paintballer Posted July 5, 2009 Share Posted July 5, 2009 This is saddening. I do believe they're going to revamp the whole system, maybe update to some kind of LIM system, easier and safer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fallen Heretic Posted July 5, 2009 Share Posted July 5, 2009 Thought and prayers to the poor driver and his family. Does anyone know if there is any physical impact safety feratures on the monorails? Looks like the whole cab became the crumple zone, leading me to think that it doesnt have any deformation zones or safety cells built into it. Perhaps everyone figured with the safety systems that none would ever be needed. Thats the thing with these systems though. Any safety system, whether its a human watching a screen or completely automatic, can go wrong for many reasons. Whether its component failure, bugs in the system which hadnt been picked up, someone not paying attention, or even just a peculiar situation that the system wasnt designed to handle. More usualy, its a combination of several factors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
testtrack321 Posted July 5, 2009 Share Posted July 5, 2009 Don't know if this has been posted yet, as I've been following up on A LOT of forums with this story, but here's a possible explanation from an ex-WDW Monorail driver... http://micechat.com/forums/news/119188-monorail-crash-kills-driver-stuns-passengers-disney-world.html#post1055420438 Ok, was posted. This is horrible, but won't stop me from riding them. Safer and more fun than any other mode of transportation around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vekoma_fan Posted July 5, 2009 Share Posted July 5, 2009 this is a sad thing for disney, castmember and family Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacemtfan Posted July 5, 2009 Share Posted July 5, 2009 That is one wicked accident scene. It's a shame that it happened. Although I feel bad for the one killed cast member I was glad no one else onboard was hurt. My speculation is that Disney won't allow visitors in the front of the monorails for a while, but over time, they'll let them back in. Hopefully, this hasn't been answered yet, but how will this affect the monorails at Disneyland in California? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pl6pilgrim Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 There is a news article on the internet saying that the California Disney World Monorail was inspected this morning and is operating as per usual: www.ocregister.com/articles/monorail-resort-disney-2484342-disneyland-florida Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbalvey Posted July 6, 2009 Author Share Posted July 6, 2009 If everyone could please do me a HUGE favor and actually READ this thread before posting to it because the same stories, the same links, the same quotes, etc, keep getting posted over and over again. If your post suddenly dissapears please do not get upset, we are just trying to clean up the thread for those who are actually READING it instead of just looking at the first post and hitting the reply button. --Robb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ginzo Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 If you didn't notice there were NO reports whatsoever of the driver sending text messages when the crash happened. You know I think that is a pretty crappy assumption when you have not a clue what really happened. Have some respect for the cast member and the family of the cast member who lost his life in this horrible accident. I'm just pointing out the obvious: Humans suck at operating machines. Computers do it better! If you think I'm dancing on graves, you've figured me wrong. Bring on Skynet! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rydrmr9 Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 Whoa I heard about this, this morning and was shocked because I rode the monorail an hour before. And earlier yesterday I rode the pink one the front. ~Ryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottBrown Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 If you didn't notice there were NO reports whatsoever of the driver sending text messages when the crash happened. You know I think that is a pretty crappy assumption when you have not a clue what really happened. Have some respect for the cast member and the family of the cast member who lost his life in this horrible accident. I'm just pointing out the obvious: Humans suck at operating machines. Computers do it better! If you think I'm dancing on graves, you've figured me wrong. Bring on Skynet! I'm not quite sure how I feel about that, I remember a few years ago when the airport out here added a computer operated tram system it had several accidents and closed after about a month Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natatomic Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 The more I think about it, the more surprised I am that there's no e-stop button in the stations. At least, I ASSUME there aren't any. After all, there had to have been at least two CMs working the platform at the time - they must have seen monorail pink about to collide with monorail purple, so surely they would have reached for some sort of all-ride braking system button if it were available to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pupkick Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 Horrid horrid advertising. The one I got was a doctor talking about a stopped heart. Classy. In the video: I will say that I understand the employee trying to shut down the camera, but I can't believe he was letting people run free around the crash point. I'm sure they were trying to assist but there's liability there too. I know Disney's no media/controlled media coverage policy of incidents. I'm not saying it's his fault, you can't really predict/fully train for employee reactions when something this surprising/big happens. I'm especially disappointed that the parents let their kids stand there and watch rather than ushering them off. All in all, a bad day for the 'rail. (Holy crap it's been a long time since I posted) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbalvey Posted July 6, 2009 Author Share Posted July 6, 2009 I can't believe he was letting people run free around the crash point. ... I'm especially disappointed that the parents let their kids stand there and watch rather than ushering them off. This is exactly what I thought too. It's a good thing this happened early in the morning when no guests were around. And not just because the crash could have resulted in more injuries, but because the reaction of people in a full station would have been chaotic and probably caused more potential danger than the crash itself! Watching that human behavior unfold on film IMO was almost just as shocking as the actual crash. --Robb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pupkick Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 I couldn't agree more sir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COOOOLkid Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 It's a good thing this happened early in the morning when no guests were around. --Robb Wait, just to confirm, there WERE guests in the monorail trains, right? It was one of the last monorail service for that day? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natatomic Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 I can't believe he was letting people run free around the crash point. ... I'm especially disappointed that the parents let their kids stand there and watch rather than ushering them off. This is exactly what I thought too. It's a good thing this happened early in the morning when no guests were around. And not just because the crash could have resulted in more injuries, but because the reaction of people in a full station would have been chaotic and probably caused more potential danger than the crash itself! Watching that human behavior unfold on film IMO was almost just as shocking as the actual crash. --Robb I dunno. Honestly, I just don't think anyone was thinking straight (the parents or the Cast members - everyone looks pretty darn stunned to me). I mean, this wasn't a routine evacuation or ride malfunction. Plus, I'm sure the CM's main concern was for the pilot who was clearly in danger (probably dead at impact, but without visual confirmation, one hopes for the best and acts as though there is a life to be saved), rather than taking a few minutes to clear away the dozen or so uninjured passengers off of the platform. I think it's just one of those situations that you never know what you'd do or how you'd react in until you're actually in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbalvey Posted July 6, 2009 Author Share Posted July 6, 2009 ^ It just seemed to me (after watching the clip about 10 times and really focusing on what is happening in the background) the cameraman was more concerned about trying to video tape something rather than the driver, the kids, or anyone else in the surrounding area. The last few seconds of the video tell me a LOT about what is going on, or I should say, what is NOT going on. They just casually walk out of the monorail exit as though it was any other day. There was no sign of wanting to run for help, concern for anyone or anything, etc, just causally walking out of the station as though nothing was going on. It's hard to tell who the kids belong to and who the tattooed guy who is jumping over the hand rails is associated with. There was clearly at least one other person with the cameraman, though as you can hear him in the very last frame of the video and you can see another person's legs walk out with him. It was also hard to tell if the CM was pushing everyone out of the station or just the group who was with the cameraman. Regardless, the one "story" that I extracted from that video is that some people there could care less about the crash or the victims, but just wanted to get video of the incident. That to me just says so much about human behavior... --Robb "Your friend is quite a mercenary. I wonder if he really cares about anything, or anybody!" Alvey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sam06pr Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 This is horrific... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natatomic Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 ^^OHHH. I thought you were talking about the CMs and parents. I wasn't even thinking about the cameraman. No, I agree with you wholeheartedly there. However, I wonder if he walked away from the scene because the CM kept telling him to "get out," rather than just to turn the camera off. Not that that excuses him from not trying to help or at least do SOMETHING other than get an exclusive youtube video out of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kennyweird Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 If you didn't notice there were NO reports whatsoever of the driver sending text messages when the crash happened. You know I think that is a pretty crappy assumption when you have not a clue what really happened. Have some respect for the cast member and the family of the cast member who lost his life in this horrible accident. I'm just pointing out the obvious: Humans suck at operating machines. Computers do it better! If you think I'm dancing on graves, you've figured me wrong. Bring on Skynet! Unfortunately, computers can't think, that's why even the most sophisticated transportation systems usually have a human monitoring them. But yeah, it looks like the WDW monorail system could use some more computerization. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyV Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 I'm just pointing out the obvious: Humans suck at operating machines. Computers do it better! Not to drag another tragedy into this thread, but the recent Air France Airbus 330 crash seems to dispute the statement about a computer's ability to do it better or more reliably than humans. Computers are programmed by humans and take input from sensors. Humans and sensors both can fail, so there is always a chance of error. The monorail accident is a horrible tragedy and my heart and prayers go out to the family of the pilot. The more I read about how this happened, the more it appears that this could have been easily avoided if people (yeah, the humans) were paying more attention to what they were doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pupkick Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 After I posted I started to wonder about the camera guy.. and yeah, not only did he stand there and watch.. not only did he walk away easily... but that video sure ended up on the news in a hurry. sad people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbalvey Posted July 6, 2009 Author Share Posted July 6, 2009 But yeah, it looks like the WDW monorail system could use some more computerization. Does it really? I know someone else mentioned something about making the monorail even "more safe" but I gotta be honest, 1 accident in 27 years? 1 fatality in over 1 billion passengers? How many other transporation systems have that kind of record? There needs to be some kind of an invenstigation, sure, don't get me wrong, and hopefully there will be some sort of finding that can be fixed, of course, but I'm not sure I think that it could get any safer or if major changes are needed. Tell you what, let's give it another 27 years and see what happens. If we have another crash, then ok, I'll say some more computerization may be in order, but if not, let's just keep things going as usual. What do you think? --Robb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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