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Six Flags Great America (SFGAm) Discussion Thread


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I’m so ready for these totally arbitrary and nonsensical covid rules to be over.  So a waterpark with no masks was fine all summer but they can’t run a coaster Or a Scrambler with a bunch of empt

I'm divided when it comes to COVID.  If a state is going to have restrictions, at least do it right. Illinois is allowing water parks because the chemicals in the water have been found to kill CO

Just like at Over Texas, I think that Great America may have leaked its plans for 2021! 🤯🤯🤯

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My point exactly. It was designed/built with the trim break 15 years ago and now they are building mega coasters that deliver much more speed and airtime than raging bull, with the exact same trains and track configuration. If there have been train modifications perhaps the park could purchase new trains and kill the trim. It is beyond unnecessary.

 

It might not be necessary, but from the park's perspective there's zero reason to change anything (it's not as if it's something they could really promote it to the general public, and at best it would bring a few extra enthusiasts, which wouldn't be worth their while). The park isn't going to spend money on something that isn't going to make them money.

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I don't understand why people are so hung up about the trim brake on Raging Bull. The ride was built to have it. There's no removing it. The only way you can ride it without the trim is to ride in manual mode, be on a train moving slow enough not to trigger it, or to be on one of the first few cycles after it turns on for the day. The park is not going to update the PLC to turn off something that decreases the wear and tear on the train and saves them money on maintenence costs.

 

Have you ever rode it? Ride would be a lot better w/o it

Actually, I have. It's not as amazing as people fantasize that it will be. The ride is not a lot better without it. It rides a little quicker through the first half and there is a bit of air on the hill that is trimmed. But I would doubt most people would be able to tell the difference and it wouldn't people rate it in their top 10 because it's a few mph faster.

Did you ride "without trims" on a really slow train, or on the first few cycles? Because if you rode on a really slow train, of course it wouldn't be much better because it would be traveling at a similar speed as a fast train with trims.

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When in doubt, guess County Fair.

 

As for this whole trim brake debate, I guess I'll bite. My thoughts about the whole situation is that yes, I understand that the coaster community feels like the bull has been neutered. The problem with the theory, though, is that the trim has always been on and working! Also, it's only used for a couple of seconds every few minutes, so I don't see how it would run up maintenance costs at all. It's hardly ever used in comparison to the other machinery on the ride. I think the most far-fetched idea that I found though, was the new trains. Yes, new trains would be cool, but what would they accomplish? Look at Hades 360. The new trains did absolutely nothing to help out the ride experience. Also, aren't new coaster trains quite expensive? I would expect 3 trains with 36 passengers each to cost quite a lot, especially from B&M. Finally, why would you replace something perfectly fine on a perfectly good ride that still generates crowds and is typically at least a 45-minute wait?

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^You make good points except I think you might have flipped around the maintenance argument. People were making the point that with the trims active the train experiences less wear and tear since the speed and forces are slightly reduced. Over the course of 1000s of cycles I suppose it could add up, but I really don't know how much of an effect it would have, personally.

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When in doubt, guess County Fair.

 

As for this whole trim brake debate, I guess I'll bite. My thoughts about the whole situation is that yes, I understand that the coaster community feels like the bull has been neutered. The problem with the theory, though, is that the trim has always been on and working! Also, it's only used for a couple of seconds every few minutes, so I don't see how it would run up maintenance costs at all. It's hardly ever used in comparison to the other machinery on the ride. I think the most far-fetched idea that I found though, was the new trains. Yes, new trains would be cool, but what would they accomplish? Look at Hades 360. The new trains did absolutely nothing to help out the ride experience. Also, aren't new coaster trains quite expensive? I would expect 3 trains with 36 passengers each to cost quite a lot, especially from B&M. Finally, why would you replace something perfectly fine on a perfectly good ride that still generates crowds and is typically at least a 45-minute wait?

 

Thanks for this. Gives me something from which to clarify my thoughts. I don't think Bull has been neutered. I think its design has been proven unnecessarily tame by later installations. What bull has over other B&M hypers is its sensation of flight and speed, thanks to its twister layout. What it totally lacks are those repetitive floater hills that accentuate the sensation of height, let them relive the first drop (which we also dominate in the category with since the back of the train isn't dragging behind on the lifthill and the front of the train is allowed to gain speed sooner) and also provide airtime.

 

My argument is that the maintenance argument must be false or that designers in 1999 were overly cautious. I mentioned new trains, if and only if the problem is with wear and tear on the trains that Raging Bull has, if there have been some design modifications that have allowed for more airtime on later installations. All other B&M hypers, focused on airtime rather than the twister layout style, are full of hills that are not neutered. Yes, each ride has a trim break in it somewhere, but on one of 8 hills, not 1 of 1 hills!

 

Its a confusing argument to make but the foundation of it is this: I don't buy the maintenance/wear and tear argument. I don't understand how a train can sustain positive G's of up to 5 numerous times throughout the ride, at the bottom of hills and in helixes, sustains a resting rate of 1 g while stationary, but is too WEAK to be allowed to experience less than HALF of a G force on a floater hill. That hill might be designed as a perfect zero-g float, but we would never know because the speed is reduced before it enters it. Or that hill is negative, but I doubt that. But in an actual ride, you are lucky if you are in a row that allows your but to lift off your seat at all! Honestly it feels like a half a G, like my butt is firm in my seat while my stomach gets a slight tickle in it, and in that case, it isn't negative, and the stress on the wheels is essentially shared between the top and bottom, thereby reducing the stress on the top row of wheels.

 

My final blow to the maintenance argument (if it is pertaining to stress on the train, not on the structure). Why would this hill so urgently need to be neutered to save on maintenance costs when the first drop provides several seconds of gut-wrenching ejector air? So this is why I don't buy the maintenance argument.

 

It is for speed control, so that the ride is rolling along at a predetermined pace, one that is in direct conflict with gravity! If left alone, the ride would hit its mark better on that hill and through to the mid-course break run. Don't worry, I'm not gonna argue that they should turn that off too.

 

The hill is poorly engineered, with or without the break, and all you need to do is ride another mega coaster to know that. Its ineffective in delivering the sensation riders want. My argument is that it has nothing to do with maintenance and everything to do with design flaws and that is why I think that turning off the trim could help in some small way.

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When in doubt, guess County Fair.

 

As for this whole trim brake debate, I guess I'll bite. My thoughts about the whole situation is that yes, I understand that the coaster community feels like the bull has been neutered. The problem with the theory, though, is that the trim has always been on and working! Also, it's only used for a couple of seconds every few minutes, so I don't see how it would run up maintenance costs at all. It's hardly ever used in comparison to the other machinery on the ride. I think the most far-fetched idea that I found though, was the new trains. Yes, new trains would be cool, but what would they accomplish? Look at Hades 360. The new trains did absolutely nothing to help out the ride experience. Also, aren't new coaster trains quite expensive? I would expect 3 trains with 36 passengers each to cost quite a lot, especially from B&M. Finally, why would you replace something perfectly fine on a perfectly good ride that still generates crowds and is typically at least a 45-minute wait?

 

Exactly. It's pointless to remove the trims or buy 3 brand new expensive trains only to please a few coaster enthusiasts. Removing the trims won't bring more people to the ride. The general public doesn't care about Bull's trim brakes. There's a reason why Raging Bull has been the most popular ride in the park since the day it opened in 1999. It's not the most thrilling ride in the world (or even the park) but it's just overall a very fun ride that keeps people coming back again and again. The park will continue operating the ride how it is because it brings thousands and thousands of guests there daily.

 

As far as Bull's design goes, they had no intentions building outwards into the parking lot further (where Hurricane Harbor is now) at the time so Raging Bull was created to fit into the space between American Eagle and Viper where Southwest Territory had opened just a few seasons before. Even some of that space where Bull sits was parking lot that they had removed. Raging Bull is a very compact coaster for the type of ride that it is. There's not really any long stretches that they could've used to add 3 or more consecutive air time hills. I think the layout works perfectly for the space they used.

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All of this argument about the trim break is interesting, but could it conceivably be that Bull wasn't designed for extreme ejector air?

 

Also, whatever this argument of the ride isn't delivering the experience that riders want, please explain to me then why the line for Raging Bull is always one of the longest if not the longest lines in the park, and the capacity that it delivers is nearly double what the other rides can deliver.

 

Seems to me, however it was designed, it's doing a fine job 15 years later of still having guests line up to ride it. It is *hands down* the best investment that Great America has had since Batman based on an ROI standpoint purely from the guests willing to line up and ride it. I'm pretty sure that if you asked your average guest at Great America what the best ride is, Raging Bull would win - if nothing else, the capacity of the ride allows nearly everyone in the park to ride in a single day at least once.

 

For me, it's not my favorite ride, but I'm more than happy to ride it the way that B&M designed it - with the trim brake on and in place.

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This thing is really shaping up - and I have to LOL at people wanting to call this a steel coaster because of the lift. I know it's a dumb discussion, but I simply don't know how you look at this monster and feel the need to worry about it having a steel lift hill.

 

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That rumor floating around about SFGAm charging a $5 up charge fee to enter Hurricane Harbor unless you are a pass holder seems to be true. Looks like there will be a fee of some sort this year. This was posted on their updated website in the FAQ's...

 

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They'd be better off raising the admission price and/or parking price to make the extra money than to do this. I think this is really going to piss people off simply because they're charging for something that they've never charged for before. I feel bad for everyone at guest relations.

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