GoBears Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 Isn't the zero-g stall going to be similar to the feel of S&S El Loco's hang time in those crazy dive loops? I think it's hard to say exactly what the Zero-G will feel like until after Goliath opens, especially since this is a new inversion. I'm very excited to try it out though! 13 weeks from today until Goliath opens (if everything is on schedule) and 10 weeks until the park opens! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan P. Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 I honestly love the design. It is a great blend between the metal and the wood. It does make hard to decide if it is a woodie or a hybrid, but does it really matter. If it is a great roller coaster, it is a a great roller coaster. Even though the lift hill has a metal structure, it gives a more insecure feeling since there are fewer supports around you creating an open feel. I think this is an upgrade not a hindrance to the ride. Cannot wait to ride this when it opens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. M Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 (edited) ^as far as the ongoing argument with that, my stance is the same as mitch hawker poll's. If the track or supports or some vital part of the ride is partially or completely steel then the wheels have to be traditional steel wheels for it to count as wooden. Polyurethane on steel track is the only way it can be counted as steel really. If this is true, then will that poll count Goliath as steel? It's track and supports are partially steel and the wheels are polyurethane? By definition, a wood tracked coaster is layers of wood molded to the support structure with steel rails on top. This is what Goliath has for its running surface. The only difference between Rocky Mountain's wood coaster track and traditional wood track is that the top layer is all steel (their topper track) instead of a wood plank with bar stock steel for the running surfaces. The iron transformations of the now 3 previous wooden coasters have the ENTIRE laminate replaced by steel in the shape of the previous wooden track. I didn't think this was that difficult to follow. And I don't believe anybody is contesting that at this point. Has anybody said, "Oh no, now Goliath is a steel coaster!"? My point is there's more that makes a wooden coaster FEEL like a wooden coaster than just what the track is made out of, and the support structure is an enormous part of that. The wheels are a smaller but still important part. RMC has gone way further in blurring the lines here, and for some that's a disappointment. As for calling it a "hybrid", that bothers me too since there is no wooden coaster that doesn't have some steel in its construction as well. So what makes it a hybrid? Edited February 22, 2014 by Dr. M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilrider Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 ^I'm not sure why I'm mentioned in that quote box but I didn't write that post. Me neither. Fixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcjp Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 Isn't the zero-g stall going to be similar to the feel of S&S El Loco's hang time in those crazy dive loops? I think it's hard to say exactly what the Zero-G will feel like until after Goliath opens, especially since this is a new inversion. I'm very excited to try it out though! 13 weeks from today until Goliath opens (if everything is on schedule) and 10 weeks until the park opens! I'm assuming it will provide zero-g and not negatives, as the name suggests. I imagine it will be like a zero g roll with the difference that instead of completing a 360 roll you twist 180 degrees in one direction , stay upside down for a while, and then twist back in the opposite direction. I think it's definitely something we could see in future coasters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willthegolfer Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 ^as far as the ongoing argument with that, my stance is the same as mitch hawker poll's. If the track or supports or some vital part of the ride is partially or completely steel then the wheels have to be traditional steel wheels for it to count as wooden. Polyurethane on steel track is the only way it can be counted as steel really. If this is true, then will that poll count Goliath as steel? It's track and supports are partially steel and the wheels are polyurethane? By definition, a wood tracked coaster is layers of wood molded to the support structure with steel rails on top. This is what Goliath has for its running surface. The only difference between Rocky Mountain's wood coaster track and traditional wood track is that the top layer is all steel (their topper track) instead of a wood plank with bar stock steel for the running surfaces. The iron transformations of the now 3 previous wooden coasters have the ENTIRE laminate replaced by steel in the shape of the previous wooden track. I didn't think this was that difficult to follow. And I don't believe anybody is contesting that at this point. Has anybody said, "Oh no, now Goliath is a steel coaster!"? My point is there's more that makes a wooden coaster FEEL like a wooden coaster than just what the track is made out of, and the support structure is an enormous part of that. The wheels are a smaller but still important part. RMC has gone way further in blurring the lines here, and for some that's a disappointment. As for calling it a "hybrid", that bothers me too since there is no wooden coaster that doesn't have some steel in its construction as well. So what makes it a hybrid? The word hybrid is usually used in two ways. One meaning is a wooden hybrid coaster with wooden track and completely steel supports (ie: Voyage). A steel hybrid has track that is completely steel (ie: NTAG) with wooden supports. Goliath has wooden track with mostly wooden supports. If the Mitch Hawker poll really does say that if any significant part of the ride is steel, then the wheels must be steel, are the supports for just the lift hill significant enough for Goliath not to be considered a wooden coaster? If so, Goliath would not be a wooden coaster according to the Mitch Hawker poll, but they can't count it as steel either. In my book, this is a wooden coaster due to the track being wooden. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
netdvn Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 Are we REALLY getting into this argument again? Goliath is a wooden coaster. It doesn't matter what the supports are or what wheels it runs on. If it's got wooden track, it's a wooden coaster. If you wanna classify it as a steel coaster, be my guest, but it's still a wooden coaster regardless. I remember reading that Wodan ran on polyurethane wheels to keep noise down. Does that make Wodan a steel coaster too? And if Morey's can finally start construction on this coaster, it will have a support structure similar to Goliath's. Does that make it a steel coaster or a wood coaster? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aCoasterStory Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 And if Morey's can finally start construction on this coaster, it will have a support structure similar to Goliath's. Does that make it a steel coaster or a wood coaster? This is the first I've seen/heard of this coaster...looks like it'd be fun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willthegolfer Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 ^^Exactly, it's definitely all about the track, supports make no difference. That Morey's coaster looks pretty sweet, who designed it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. M Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 Again, not arguing that it isn't a wooden coaster. Just wanted to clear up the Mitch Hawker thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anewman35 Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 Surely they must have known how they were building the lift before construction started. Anyone else find it strangely calculating that they should release this info now, shortly before construction on the lift starts and they can no longer keep it a secret? Were they fearing a negative backlash? While I have no idea why the renderings didn't show this originally, it seems crazy to think they'd care at all about a "backlash" from a very small amount of people. They aren't building this for the people on the message board, they're building it for the millions of people in the general public who attend every year, and they won't care AT ALL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downunder Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 I couldn't care less if the supports were made of Lego (as long as it was safe, only a hypothetical pedantic people), it looks like a righteous ride. If I get to ride this next year, it looks like Outlaw Run will only last 1 year at the top of my rankings. The proof will be in the actual riding of course, but looking good so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonnyRCT3 Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 Are we REALLY getting into this argument again? Goliath is a wooden coaster. It doesn't matter what the supports are or what wheels it runs on. If it's got wooden track, it's a wooden coaster. If you wanna classify it as a steel coaster, be my guest, but it's still a wooden coaster regardless. ^ Haha, this. However, I have to say this. Topper track is a grey area, at least for me. Yes, still a wood coaster, but the amount of steel on it is quite excessive. Especially for a wood coaster. Just my 2c. CLICKY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
talonec Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 I think the changes are hot. I'd tap that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ytterbiumanalyst Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 Goliath keeps looking better all the time. I had wondered why they were waiting so long to start the lift hill, when the lift hill was the first part they built of Outlaw Run. I for one love the look, and I agree with others that this isn't a traditional wooden coaster and doesn't need to conform to the look of traditional wooden coasters. I'm at a point in my life now where I am looking for new experiences, things I've never done before, and not just taller/faster/bigger rides. Goliath is looking to be fantastic, and absolutely a new experience. We already have our hotel booked for July, and I am very much looking forward to this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beatle11 Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 That drop looks incredible! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fooz Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 Are we REALLY getting into this argument again? Goliath is a wooden coaster. It doesn't matter what the supports are or what wheels it runs on. If it's got wooden track, it's a wooden coaster. If you wanna classify it as a steel coaster, be my guest, but it's still a wooden coaster regardless.[/img] Yeah, but it has steel track. It sits on top of some wood, but everything within the wheel assembly is steel, just like, say, a steel coaster. I don't really care if anyone thinks it is one way or another, but the attitude of "there's no argument! I'm obviously right!" is silly. Wooden casters were built one way for a century. Now a ride like this is being built in a completely different way, of course there's room for questioning it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeJayDoubleyou Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 ^I'm going to have to agree with you on this one. The lack of wood in the actual rails of the track make me think of it as more of a steel coaster. Either way, this ride looks absolutely stunning! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lareson Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 It's why I think that Goliath is actually a true hybrid coaster, combines both aspects that make it a wooden coaster and a steel coaster. Even though the park is marketing it as a wooden coaster, it really is closer to a steel coaster than a wooden coaster. Poly wheels, the rails actually being steel filled with a "design mix" as RMC is calling it, are what make it a steel coaster and the wood track structure and supports make it a wooden coaster. It's why I think starting with this, a hybrid classification should be made. I don't argue that Outlaw Run is a wooden coaster because it runs like a wooden coaster as the train has steel wheels, but now that Goliath's trains have poly coated wheels, it's certainly not going to run like a wooden coaster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vonni Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 Doesn't El Toro at SFGAd have poly wheels? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prozach626 Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 (edited) Sorry but I don't see this as an improvement at all. Even if the structure is steel, I like how traditional wood coaster supports look. I liked how the zero g stall was buried within the ride, now it's just out in the open like a steel coaster. I mean, why even make it look like that, why not just use big steel beams like on Skyrush? Wouldn't it save on some material costs? Well, like it or not, one thing is for sure. We will never again have a coaster structure as towering and magnificent as SOB's lift hill/turn/drop. Hate on the ride all you want, but you have to admit that 200 ft tall wall of wood was awe-inspiring. Also, the debate may continue, but I honestly don't think RMC cares if they're making wooden coasters at this point or not. Aren't we basically saying that if there's a slab of wood imbedded in the track somewhere, we can call it a woodie? I'm just not sure anymore, we may reach a point where the line between them is so fine it's totally meaningless. How sure are you that RMC gives a crap about what it's 'classified' as? Wood, steel, elephant shit.. who cares what the coaster is made of, as long as it produces an amazing ride?!?!?! Let go of the nostalgia and try to have an open mind. What makes RMC so great is that they have the ability to think outside of the box. Just relax and enjoy the coaster for what it is, instead or trying to worry about whether or not the coaster is 'technically' wood or steel. The design has an advanced and intimidating look to it, which in my opinion fits RMC perfectly. Edited February 23, 2014 by prozach626 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lareson Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 Doesn't El Toro at SFGAd have poly wheels? That's true. All of the Intamin pre-fab coasters use poly wheels, but at least the track on those are still wood. The track is just super accurate compared to a traditional wooden track build, so it's able to use poly wheels without destroying them. That's why they're not used on traditional wooden coasters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. M Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 Are we REALLY getting into this argument again? Goliath is a wooden coaster. It doesn't matter what the supports are or what wheels it runs on. If it's got wooden track, it's a wooden coaster. If you wanna classify it as a steel coaster, be my guest, but it's still a wooden coaster regardless.[/img] Yeah, but it has steel track. It sits on top of some wood, but everything within the wheel assembly is steel, just like, say, a steel coaster. I don't really care if anyone thinks it is one way or another, but the attitude of "there's no argument! I'm obviously right!" is silly. Wooden casters were built one way for a century. Now a ride like this is being built in a completely different way, of course there's room for questioning it. Nope, no room for debate here, if you disagree with the general consensus you are ignorant and silly. You might as well call the sky purple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKvillalba Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 Well, in my humble opinion I think everybody is free to classify coasters the way they feel more comfortable to, because as far as I know there is not any "official" classification. It is as OK as the people who says "I don't give a $#% as long as it's an amazing ride". For me: -A wooden coaster is the one with wood structure and (mostly) wood track. Obviously all wood coasters do have steel parts just as any other wood structure does (nails, screws, etc) without them making the coaster a "hybrid". -A steel coaster is the one with structure and track both made of steel. -A hybrid coaster, is the one that mixes steel structure and wood track (e.g. Hades 360) or vice versa (IRat). Also the ones with mixed structure in a significant way (not nails, not screws nor coasters with 10 steel beams and 1000000000000 made of wood) count as hybrid for me. So, as a (personal) conclusion: Goliath is a hybrid coaster. IRat, TNTG and MedusaSC are also hybrids but in a different way. Outlaw Run is a woodie. An RCM is the most innovative and amazing coaster manufacturer nowadays!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vonni Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 Sorry but I don't see this as an improvement at all. Even if the structure is steel, I like how traditional wood coaster supports look. I liked how the zero g stall was buried within the ride, now it's just out in the open like a steel coaster. I mean, why even make it look like that, why not just use big steel beams like on Skyrush? Wouldn't it save on some material costs? Well, like it or not, one thing is for sure. We will never again have a coaster structure as towering and magnificent as SOB's lift hill/turn/drop. Hate on the ride all you want, but you have to admit that 200 ft tall wall of wood was awe-inspiring. Also, the debate may continue, but I honestly don't think RMC cares if they're making wooden coasters at this point or not. Aren't we basically saying that if there's a slab of wood imbedded in the track somewhere, we can call it a woodie? I'm just not sure anymore, we may reach a point where the line between them is so fine it's totally meaningless. How sure are you that RMC gives a crap about what it's 'classified' as? Wood, steel, elephant poo-poo.. who cares what the coaster is made of, as long as it produces an amazing ride?!?!?! Let go of the nostalgia and try to have an open mind. What makes RMC so great is that they have the ability to think outside of the box. Just relax and enjoy the coaster for what it is, instead or trying to worry about whether or not the coaster is 'technically' wood or steel. The design has an advanced and intimidating look to it, which in my opinion fits RMC perfectly. I know you and I have butted heads a lot, but I actually completely agree with you on this point. You put it perfectly. Who cares if Goliath is a wooden Coaster or a steel Coaster. It us undoubtably going to be one of the best Coasters of our generation! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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