Six Flags Great America (SFGAm) Discussion Thread

[TheMaxster]

Even though it's a good park, SFGAm doesn't have the same high quality thrills as other Six Flags parks. The park could really use some ride that is more intense than the other coasters seem outdated. I don't want to see them go, but I would really like a ride that would be 100% worth going to the park for. Unless Six Flags puts some money into the park, I would rather be at Busch Gardens where they have a larger variety of attractions. I know that the company has to be careful with their money but I look at parks like Six Flags Great Adventure and think, "now that's a destination!"

[Ed Farmer]

Demon has always been a headache, but it's still a great ride. The theme is too good to get rid of. Maybe a new Mack or Gerstlauer (they do work out of the old Anton factory) version of the Demon would be a good idea, eventually.

 

 

My (baseless) nightmare scenario regarding Demon's future is exactly that- it eventually gets to the point where they're not willing to continue pouring money into it, and a mind-numbing Eurofighter with black track and some sort of continuation of the Demon theme winds up in it's place. I hope they're willing to continue maintaining Demon much like they are Whizzer. That pop of airtime you're treated to if you're sitting in the last row on it's first drop is second only to Raging Bull's first drop in this park.

[GayCoasterGuy]

^Remember, Gerstlauer works out of the former Schwarzkopf factory and is very able to design a large coaster with full 24-passenger trains (like the ones they just build for sooperdooperLooper). That was more along the lines of what I was thinking, not a Eurofighter. But who knows!

 

Have you ridden both? I usually prefer the more compact style of certain rides. For example, I'll take BTR over Raptor any day. I have yet to try out Gatekeeper but I must say it looks pretty cool. X-Flight is my 3rd favorite coaster at SFGAm.

 

Great America has been "outdone" by CP for a long time - in terms of size and scale of rides, but I think we still have better coasters. I haven't ridden Gatekeeper yet (not in huge hurry to get to it; as much as I try and try, I just can't get into most B&M rides), but people who have ridden both seem to prefer X-Flight.

 

It's all about taste, they are both great ride parks. Unfortunately for us local to Great America, Cedar Point wins by a landslide in terms of overall operation/efficiency and it's probably an easier park to just "hang out at" as a season pass holder. Quality of food and getting the food (service!) is much higher at CP. CP doesn't have 1/2 mile walks to and from coaster stations to the rest of the park. Exercise is great, but sometimes I just wanna chill out at Great America - it's not the best park to chill out at. I don't think any of the Six Flags are.

 

SF is becoming more and more a "Season Pass holder park." The more people hang out there, the more they see stuff like 30 minute waits for cold fries and too many empty seats going out on coasters. It's not about complaining or being too critical, I'm being honest But then of course that opens the discussion that MOST people don't know how well some places are run. (And I know there are some people here who present great discussions on that stuff!) In all fairness to SF, the park is much better than it was 10 years ago. There is still a bunch of room for improvement.

[deathbydinn]

It's all about taste, they are both great ride parks. Unfortunately for us local to Great America, Cedar Point wins by a landslide in terms of overall operation/efficiency and it's probably an easier park to just "hang out at" as a season pass holder. Quality of food and getting the food (service!) is much higher at CP. CP doesn't have 1/2 mile walks to and from coaster stations to the rest of the park. Exercise is great, but sometimes I just wanna chill out at Great America - it's not the best park to chill out at. I don't think any of the Six Flags are.

 

I'm never even thought of that - but I totally agree with you. I think because Cedar Point has so many rides and because so much of the crowds will be waiting in lines, it makes the midways themselves a much more relaxing day. Even on the days when I went and ride lines were spilling out the entrances, the midways were never crowded and it was easy to just sit down and chill out. Great America does a few good chill out areas though, the patio in Yukon is nice since most people don't seem to know it exists, and the building in Orleans next to Cyber Cafe is really good for hot days. Of course the best area was the Hometown garden, which hopefully will make it's way back soon.

[GayCoasterGuy]

^And seating. CP has tons of seating everywhere. They operate on a different principle. Someone can explain it much better than me

 

CP operates on an ethic midway between the big corporate (SF) style and the kind you can find at Holiday World.

[Airtime&Gravity]

The new sports bar is a nice place to hang out on hot and/or crowded days.

 

My issue with Six Flags Great America is that there is no shade, and the aforementioned lack of areas to take a break. I do think comparing Great America to Cedar Point is unfair though, mainly due to how much larger Cedar Point is. Granted, this exception can't be made for the operation of the rides themselves though. Operations seem to be off this year based on what I've heard and experienced, but hopefully those issues improve soon as the Summer season gets into high gear. I've only been to the park once so far this season, and my visit was fairly poor. I tossed that up to my visit being the same day as some school choir/band competition, and the park not being redy to handle crowds of that level so early in the season(They were at/near Fright Fest levels). Granted, the park should have been running at full capacity, but I was willing to give the park a break as it was early and a one day event when it wouldn't be anywhere near as crowded for several more weeks. However, it sounds like service issues persist.

 

That being said, Viper's crew was awesome on the day of my visit. Six Flags should look at what that crew does and replicate it at all the other attractions.

[GayCoasterGuy]

I do think comparing Great America to Cedar Point is unfair though, mainly due to how much larger Cedar Point is.

 

How much bigger is CP than GA? Are you speaking of actual park space, and not counting all the accommodations at CP? I think I remember CP, SFGAm, SFGAd and SFMM to be all relatively close in size (ride/walkway areas only). I'm sure someone knows much better than me.

 

Either way, just doing the entrance and exit walks to the main coasters at GA will take you for much MUCH longer walks than those at CP. Walking around the whole Great America and riding all the coasters (with their incredibly long enters/exits) is for sure a much longer walk than doing the same thing at CP. Most modern Six Flags coasters have intentionally long enters/exits.

 

I helped a guy in a wheel chair up the exit of Raging Bull once. It was horrible for both of us. They gave him a time to come back. So back he went, down the exit and up again later.

[batmanfan80]

I tried to stop there quick around 4:30 today on my way to Milwaukee. Bad idea. Must've been about 20 buses. The GSA had the security lines far longer and slower than the TSA. There were maybe 4 lanes open and I had a way easier time clearing airport security and customs the last few trips I've taken. Way easier than this mess. They keep letting people cut too. One family member or friend will be in line and then their whole extended family of 10 more people just bowls through everyone to get where they are. It wasn't bad the last time I was there. And I went at a more peak time of day. The second lot wasn't that full. Think we were parked around Robin 54. The line was moving so slow that we just left. Seemed like they were at a pace of about one person per minute. I wonder if we really need all this bag searching along with the tiny seatbelts some coasters have. If they're so worried about gangbangers and whatnot bringing weapons, there's gotta be other ways to dissuade them from going. Six Flags should consider a longer season. A lot of the weather we've had so far hasn't been all that much different than a lot of days during the offseason. Seems like people will still go if it's cold and/or raining. I've heard there's been a lot of cheap tickets sold this year so maybe that has something to do with the crowd size. That might have a bigger impact than weather.

[Woodie Warrior]

Even though it's a good park, SFGAm doesn't have the same high quality thrills as other Six Flags parks. The park could really use some ride that is more intense than the other coasters seem outdated.

 

I would say Raging Bull, X-Flight, Superman, Vertical Velocity, Batman, they are all VERY thrilling coasters. The only thing more thrilling than those rides would be a accelerator coaster like Top Thrill or Kingda Ka, but I don't think SF is going to be building any more of the 400+ feet tall ones thanks to Kingda Ka's maintenance issues with all the lightning strikes and whatnot.

 

I know this forum is not to compare SFGAm and SFSTL, but I'm sorry, if any SF park needs a major/signature coaster it is SFSTL. All of our roller coasters can be found at other parks that have more coasters, so why would anybody not in the area visit our park. I don't think we will ever get a B&M hyper, but Iron Horse for the Boss would be nice. Okay, I'm done ranting.

 

All I'm saying is, SFGAm is a great park with nice and thrilling coasters, a good selection of flats, and your management keeps all the "retro" rides in. All you guys need is a couple of more modern flats, like a Screamin' Swing or a SkyScreamer. A purple and gold SkyScreamer could be a nice replacement for Ragin' Cajun. Or maybe for Condor. Screamin' Swing could replace Ragin' Cajun too.

[GayCoasterGuy]

^SFSTlouis has one of biggest coasters that ever was... Screamin' Eagle. Oh wait, the early 80s is over, sorry

 

But seriously, that ride was a big deal way back. Then American Eagle came along, and it was also huge. As for St. Louis, the Boss is such an excellent ride... I know people complain that it's too rough, but during Dare Devil Daze last September, it was in incredible shape. I had ridden it opening year, 2000 (knock you out silly rough) and 2001 (not as rough), but last September it was downright incredible. A maintenance guy was telling me how much work they had been putting into it, including spraying the ride down during dry times to keep everything in tip top shape. Still has a couple rough spots (helix), but was easily a top 10 for me.

[Woodie Warrior]

^SFSTlouis has one of biggest coasters that ever was... Screamin' Eagle. Oh wait, the early 80s is over, sorry

 

But seriously, that ride was a big deal way back. Then American Eagle came along, and it was also huge. As for St. Louis, the Boss is such an excellent ride... I know people complain that it's too rough, but during Dare Devil Daze last September, it was in incredible shape. I had ridden it opening year, 2000 (knock you out silly rough) and 2001 (not as rough), but last September it was downright incredible. A maintenance guy was telling me how much work they had been putting into it, including spraying the ride down during dry times to keep everything in tip top shape. Still has a couple rough spots (helix), but was easily a top 10 for me.

 

Yes, if there is any "signature" coaster at SFSTL, it is the Boss. But SFGAm has TWO "signature coasters": X-Flight (only wing coaster in the chain) and Raging Bull (the REAL signature coaster)

[Turkey Leg]

I was only at Cedar Point once, last month. We bought the $65 fast lane passes. I agree with pretty much everything gaycoasterguy said about Great America vs. Cedar Point. CP's Max Air is clearly better than SFGAm's Revolution. Wicked Twister is about the same as Vertical Velocity, but a little better because WT twists at both ends. Also, the line for WT moves much faster than V2 for some reason, even though there wasn't a Fast Lane at WT. CP's Millenium Force has a steeper and longer first big drop than SFGAm's Raging Bull, and in my opinion the view of the lake on Millenium Force is better than the view of the tunnel of Raging Bull, but that might be just because I'm so used to Raging Bull. I rode Gatekeeper twice, the second time we were stuck on it for about 15 minutes, Gatekeeper and Top Thrill Dragster have to be shut down when there are high winds to to its proximity to the lake, something SFGAm regulars don't necessarily think about. We asked for a partial refund for the fast lane passes because Gatekeeper and Top Thrill Dragster were down for so long, and they refunded us $15 per pass ($50 is the cost of a fast lane pass that doesn't include Gatekeeper or Top Thrill Dragster), so that was fair.

 

Other than X-flight, the only thing SFGAm does better than CP is the sports bar. SFGAm's sports bar has Bulls/Blackhawks/Cubs/White Sox/Brewers/Bears/Packers jerseys and decals. Cedar Point's sports bar has those generic sports decorations and wallpaper that looks like it belongs in a child's bedroom.

 

SFGAm in my opinion is not worth going to unless you have a season pass or you use a bring a friend for free or $10 or maybe $15 coupon. It is not worth buying any food items at SFGAm unless you have the season dining pass. SFGAm foodservice operations are so slow you can probably go outside the park to a local restaurant and back and it would still be quicker than waiting in SFGAm food lines. It will also be better quality and cheaper, and you will get more exercise. SFGAm is absolutely a season pass holder park, which reminds me: Don't expect short lines for Coasters After Dark this Friday simply because it's for season pass holders only. Pretty much anyone who goes there is a season pass holder.

[Ed Farmer]

As for St. Louis, the Boss is such an excellent ride... I know people complain that it's too rough, but during Dare Devil Daze last September, it was in incredible shape. I had ridden it opening year, 2000 (knock you out silly rough) and 2001 (not as rough), but last September it was downright incredible. A maintenance guy was telling me how much work they had been putting into it, including spraying the ride down during dry times to keep everything in tip top shape. Still has a couple rough spots (helix), but was easily a top 10 for me.

 

Every time that I make the trip to that park I keep expecting to get murderated by The Boss based on enthusiast whining. Year after year, without fail, the whining ends up being baseless noise. I'm impressed with the quality of work the park and it's maintenance staff have put into Boss- especially considering that it's a giant 13 year old CCI coaster. Not too many of those have fared well in the years since they were built.

[GayCoasterGuy]

Whizzer always keeps me coming back. I'm a total Anton geek and don't think I'll ever grow out of it.

[Geauga Dog]

I don't consider it fair to compare Great America to Cedar Point as they are two very different parks in how they operate. I've never had issues with operations at Great America on many of the visits I've had even if some rides aren't run as efficient as they should be.

 

CP's Max Air is clearly better than SFGAm's Revolution...CP's Millenium Force has a steeper and longer first big drop than SFGAm's Raging Bull, and in my opinion the view of the lake on Millenium Force is better than the view of the tunnel of Raging Bull, but that might be just because I'm so used to Raging Bull.

 

Those are not necessarily fair comparisons either. It's a no brainer that the larger ride, in the case of two mentioned here, is going to be better than the smaller ride. It would be easier to compare Magnum to Raging Bull and other than the lake view on Magnum it's clear that Raging Bull would win since it doesn't try to maim man parts.

 

SFGAm is the superior park if compared to SFStL (a park I equally love) but what St. Louis has is the distinction of having three excellent wood coasters which is very rare for a Six Flags park as majority of the parks are heavy in the steel department. All they need is a signature steel coaster and a few modern flats to round out the offerings and SFStL would be up to SFGAm's level.

[Jerrykoala2112]

I don't think it's fair to compare Max Air and Revolution. Revolution isn't as tall, but it definitely spins faster and is very forceful. Max Air is tall, but that's all it really has going for it. It doesn't spin that fast. Just depends if you're into big and forceless, or small and forceful.

[goatdan]

I had ridden it opening year, 2000 (knock you out silly rough) and 2001 (not as rough), but last September it was downright incredible.

 

Yeah, I didn't ride it last year, but what in the world was up with that? I rode it in 2000 shortly after it came out, and it was amazing... just how poor it rode immediately after it came out. I mean, Son of Beast was WAY smoother.

 

I went back in 2001 and got talked into going back on it by my group, and it was like a totally different and better ride.

 

I can't say much of what it has done since then, as I haven't rode it in the times I've been at St Louis, but I can't think of one other time that a ride that debuted so poorly got so much better the following year. Was something major done to it?

[goatdan]

Those are not necessarily fair comparisons either. It's a no brainer that the larger ride, in the case of two mentioned here, is going to be better than the smaller ride.

 

At least for me, I find this to rarely be the case. I find Millenium Force dreadfully dull, although to be honest I'm not a huge fan of Raging Bull either. I like the smaller, more compact rides with lots of quick turns that they can't do with the larger ones. I would take Batman any day over every other inverted coaster made, excepting perhaps Montu when it came out before it was horribly braked. In wooden coasters, once you get too big I find them just dull.

 

Having said that, Cedar Fair has run Cedar Point on the premise that it is a thrill seekers paradise, and so they always need to get the biggest of whatever is the latest and greatest. If you like big things, you love Cedar Point. It's a simple strategy that keeps their turnstyles clicking, and at least for that park is one of the best "country-wide" strategies for a single park that is out there, in my opinion. If you like height and speed, there is no better park in the world for you than Cedar Point.

 

The Six Flags parks as a chain try to cater to everyone, and in doing so cater to no one group in particular. This may be attributed to the fact they are regional parks (whereas Cedar Point tries to break that mold), or whatever, but they are also very successful at what they do. It is just a different strategy.

 

Oh, and when Vertical Velocity's back spike was working, I found it FAR superior to Wicked Twister. Without that spike, I find both of the rides to be pretty silly.

[GayCoasterGuy]

Yeah, I didn't ride it last year, but what in the world was up with that? I rode it in 2000 shortly after it came out, and it was amazing... just how poor it rode immediately after it came out. I mean, Son of Beast was WAY smoother.

 

I can't say much of what it has done since then, as I haven't rode it in the times I've been at St Louis, but I can't think of one other time that a ride that debuted so poorly got so much better the following year. Was something major done to it?

 

I think The Boss had some minor re-profiling between 2000 and 2001. In 2000, it was easily one of my favorites. Not since a brand new 1990 Texas Giant had a ride knocked me so silly. The track wasn't rough, it just tried to knock me out a few times down in those valleys between the big drops. Was that your experience? I went back in 2001 and it was still a great ride - but all the bite was gone.

 

Last September, it was phenomenal. A touch rough in the valleys and helix, but incredible air time all over the place. It was also a very cool and dry night, that may have helped.

 

At least for me, I find this to rarely be the case. I find Millennium Force dreadfully dull, although to be honest I'm not a huge fan of Raging Bull either. I like the smaller, more compact rides with lots of quick turns that they can't do with the larger ones.

 

It's amazing what the psychology of a ride can do. It seems that "bigger is better" really does work for many people. Whatever coasters we like, for whatever reasons ("its bigger/faster," charm, comfort, etc.) it doesn't matter. It would be lame if we all liked the same stuff equally. It works out great for me, as the rides I prefer usually have shorter lines than the bigger ones.

 

Kennywood Thunderbolt, Cyclops, Legend, SFOG Mind Bender - those really do it for me. Those are the most perfect, full and well-rounded rides I have ever been on (I haven't done the Rocky Mountain coasters yet). While I do enjoy riding Top Thrill Dragster and Millennium Force, I wouldn't go out of my way for them. Most of my favorites I would classify as "variety rides." Heck, I found the best ride at Carowinds to be the Goldrusher.

[goatdan]

I think The Boss had some minor re-profiling between 2000 and 2001. In 2000, it was easily one of my favorites. Not since a brand new 1990 Texas Giant had a ride knocked me so silly. The track wasn't rough, it just tried to knock me out a few times down in those valleys between the big drops. Was that your experience? I went back in 2001 and it was still a great ride - but all the bite was gone.

 

When I first rode it, I expected it to be awesome - perhaps because I had just rode a lot of the "class of 2000" rides including both Legend and Villain (and Son of Beast VERY early on, when it was super smooth... for like three days), and I was surprised by how rough and I guess the word "under-designed" that I felt that the ride was immediately. Maybe I caught it on a bad day, but while I rode each of the first three multiple times, I came off Boss with a headache after my first ride.

 

Rode it again in 2001 and it was like a whole different ride. Seemed smooth, amazing air, good laterals. Maybe it just doesn't know what it wants to run like any given day...

 

It's amazing what the psychology of a ride can do. It seems that "bigger is better" really does work for many people. Whatever coasters we like, for whatever reasons ("its bigger/faster," charm, comfort, etc.) it doesn't matter. It would be lame if we all liked the same stuff equally. It works out great for me, as the rides I prefer usually have shorter lines than the bigger ones.

 

WARNING: Long story coming. Skip it if you don't like long stuff.

 

From what I've seen, those people who are at least mildly scared of heights tend to like the taller / faster rides the most. I'm not going to call that perfect in all cases, but for people that get worked up about going up 200 feet in the air and then hurtling toward the earth, the bigger and better it is, the more of a rush when it is conquered.

 

I'm not scared of heights at all. I'm cautious, so it isn't like I hop off buildings or anything, but I also know when I'm safe, and when I'm on roller coasters I'm safe. So, going up 200+ feet in a roller coaster isn't something where I personally feel a great sense of 'conquering' anything. I don't get the same rush in situations like that.

 

What gets me is when a ride truly surprises me, which on big rides where you can see exactly what is coming up, I don't get.

 

And you're exactly right. I remember the one year I was in ACE was in 2000 because I was hitting enough parks where there was an ACE discount or benefit that I figured why not, we were walked back for the opening of Son of Beast early. It was actually the first day it ran after it's first closure, and it happened to be the day that we were visiting. The wait to open was taking a long time, and we were in the group of ACErs talking. We were mostly keeping to ourselves - I had developed a HUGE distaste over some of them talking about how they would keep their seat harnesses up higher - and then a couple of them started talking with us. They asked the question of what we thought the best ride was.

 

I tried to change the subject because my favorite ride was the much hated (at the time) Outer Limits: Flight of Fear with over the shoulder harnesses. To be fair, later that day I'd visit Holiday World where both Raven and Legend would pass it, but I really do love Flight of Fear. And enthusiasts hated it. At this point, I had probably rode about 200 coasters, so it wasn't like I didn't have much to base it on... it's just in all my hobbies, I tend to like things that other people don't.

 

I'll never forget it - the guy that I was talkingn to said that was okay, and that we all needed to like different stuff, or else every park would have the same few rides that everyone liked, and nothing would be different. It was about the only time I felt like it was okay to have that opinion as an ACEr. Last time I would ever be a member, too. I like lab bars and not falling out, personally.

 

Anyway, that's the thing about rides. We all like them for different reasons, and that is what makes going on different coasters so worth it.

 

Kennywood Thunderbolt, Cyclops, Legend, SFOG Mind Bender - those really do it for me. Those are the most perfect, full and well-rounded rides I have ever been on (I haven't done the Rocky Mountain coasters yet). While I do enjoy riding Top Thrill Dragster and Millennium Force, I wouldn't go out of my way for them. Most of my favorites I would classify as "variety rides." Heck, I found the best ride at Carowinds to be the Goldrusher.

 

I love Mine Trains and Arrow suspended rides. I also love rides where there is some sort of unique history to them - the ride was changed because of whatever, or didn't open on time because of something, or whatever. When rides that have unique backstories combine with the small twisty layouts I love, they usually end up in my favorites. Then, if I'm lucky enough to have some sort of personal connection - lucky time riding, memorable reason I got there, certain friends with me, etc - they go up even more.

 

I'd name my favorites as Raven, Flight of Fear (although I actually like it LESS with the lap bars, believe it or not), Great America's Batman (SO much fascinating history!), Mr. Freeze, Kumba, Air, Medusa (Discovery Kingdom) and Zippin Pippin. My favorite ride at Magic Mountain is Ninja.

 

I'm crazy.

[GayCoasterGuy]

It was about the only time I felt like it was okay to have that opinion as an ACEr.

 

All us ACE members don't have the same opinions. Just like all us TPR members don't

 

Last time I would ever be a member, too. I like lab bars and not falling out, personally.

 

I've been an ACE member since 1986 and follow rules - always have, always will. Do a "few bad apples" really spoil the whole bunch? I've seen people in other coaster clubs doing really dumb - and illegal - things. I don't judge the whole group based on what a couple members have done. ACE definitely has flaws (a web page would be nice, it's 2013!) but so do all the clubs I've ever been a part of. Obviously, the good outweighs the bad (for me).

 

I've cringed at things coaster enthusiasts have done, not just ACE members. Good thing TPR and ACE have codes of conduct!

 

I'm crazy.

I wrote the book; you're in good company

[goatdan]

Last time I would ever be a member, too. I like lab bars and not falling out, personally.

 

I've been an ACE member since 1986 and follow rules - always have, always will. Do a "few bad apples" really spoil the whole bunch? I've seen people in other coaster clubs doing really dumb - and illegal - things. I don't judge the whole group based on what a couple members have done. ACE definitely has flaws (a web page would be nice, it's 2013!) but so do all the clubs I've ever been a part of. Obviously, the good outweighs the bad (for me).

 

I've cringed at things coaster enthusiasts have done, not just ACE members. Good thing TPR and ACE have codes of conduct!

 

The culture of ACE seems to have *definitely* changed since 2000 when I had that experience, and I do judge everyone equally and individually. Having said that, the perception of ACE by many within the management side of parks is only now starting to change from what it was about 10 years ago. I have no issue with anyone joining, but for me the benefits - of which honestly lately there would have been none for me other than the newsletter - do not outweigh the 'getting put in the ACE camp' by those outside the club.

 

I fully support their intentions of preserving the history of tracked rides, as I think that the industry does a really bad job of tracing their history... which makes sense in some ways. When perhaps the most important founder of the industry says that his park isn't a museum, it's hard for others to treat their parks that way... but, on the flip side, the important advances that were made in the 80s, while often painful today, led to the awesome stuff we now have...

[GayCoasterGuy]

^Good way of looking at it. I have been in a few clubs, and I find each club has it's pros and cons. I love hanging out here at TPR and watching the great videos. I can't get any of that through ACE. But seeing that I really like old classic stuff (I still miss Geauga Lake's Big Dipper) it makes sense for me to be an ACE member - they have a vested interest in preservation (see Mission Beach Giant Dipper, etc.).

[Turkey Leg]

This is a long shot but does the Flash Pass work for Coasters After Dark?

[Woodie Warrior]

Can passholders from other Six Flags parks attend Coasters After Dark?