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Six Flags Corporate Discussion Thread


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Maybe Shapiro's Team will get the "War on Lines" right when his predecessors could not.

 

That's a positive comment..not a negative comment...

 

He said he wouldn't do something like that because, basically, that is what ruined the park. He said he wouldn't market the flats.

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Maybe Shapiro's Team will get the "War on Lines" right when his predecessors could not.

 

That's a positive comment..not a negative comment...

 

He said he wouldn't do something like that because, basically, that is what ruined the park. He said he wouldn't market the flats.

 

He didnt' speak of the War on Lines. I was just making a general comment speaking of the additions of flat rides particularly to Great Adventure.

 

While he said they wouldn't market the new flats, I don't see how adding flat rides ruined the park, nor do I think those were his words.

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It's not just that flats are not prevalent, the issue is that so many flats have been removed in the past few years with no replacements.

 

Looping Starship

Rodeo (OK, that was sort of replaced with the Rockin Tug, that is now not working)

Enterprise

Rotor

Wave Swinger

Bumper Cars

Musik Express

 

At least the Tea Cups and Sky Ride have been running consistently the past two years, as those had not been running for a long time. On top of that patrons were kept in the regarding Houdini and the parachute Drop operates at oly 1/3 capacity.

 

I agree that way too many rides have been removed, counting kiddie rides it was around 33 rides removed from the park in the past 10 or 11 years. Hopefully with the new paint on the parachutes, they will have more sides open. Last season it seemed like only 2 parachutes were running most of the time and once in a while they had 4 running.

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I often see discussions of flats vs coasters to round out a park's attractions, but it seems I rarely see much mention of dark ride installations. I certainly don't expect projects on the scale of what Disney and Universal bring forth, but a newer technology Sally (or whoever) shooting ride or haunted house attraction would be welcome additions. Most dark rides seem to have fairly decent capacity as well. Am I just in the minority, or do others also wish for dark rides in addition to, or possibly in place of, flats?

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I'd like to see more dark rides in parks. I know it gets criticized a lot for not being that great of a ride but Reese's at Hershey is one of my favorite non coaster rides in the park. I'd even take an interactive dark ride over flats. When discussed on other boards at least for Great Adventure the response is usually, with the crowds the park gets people wouldn't behave or vandalize the ride. I don't know about that since if there is a lap bar like on Reese's, I don't think you are getting out of the seat.

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Mark Shapiro interview tomorrow - Friday on CNBC Squawk Box between 6 - 9am. I didn't catch a more precise time. The promo said he'll be talking about stay-cations. We'll see what Mr. Six Flags has to say...

 

I wasn't available to see this interview this morning. Did anyone see it??? Was anything significant discussed?

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Fair enough, but to claim that it will be the best Six Flags park by the end of the year is overly ambitious and is surely a goal that will not be met. Maybe by setting his goal at an unattainable level it'll force the park to increase in quality more than it would if the goal were realistic?

I honestly think the parks quality compared to other parks in the region is quite great. Having essentially no waits for any roller coaster all season, a great water park, lots of shows, and plenty of rides for all ages. All around seems like a winning combination to me.

 

Nice interview, same song and dance, but we'll see how the plans hold up this year.

 

"We are continuing to invest in the parking lots as we do with the parks themselves; using much of the money we make charging for parking. We aren’t that much different (certainly cheaper) from basketball and baseball games with their parking pricing structures.”

 

Gonna have to disagree with this, as parking at Angel stadium is a pretty decent $8, and $5 if you decide to walk a little bit. $15 is a bit steep, in my opinion.

 

Its one thing if you're at Disneyland and you get a quiet, smooth tram ride all the way to the entrance of the park. But at Six Flags the trains are so old and the tram roads are so bumpy, that the trains rattle, bang and bump the entire ride to the park entrance! So if the park pulls 1000 cars, they're pocketing $15000, and I know Mark says it, but it certainly doesn't seem that they've invested that dough on parking lots very efficiently.

I haven't seen a tram at SFA or SFGAdv in any of my past several visits, which is very disappointing.

The SFA comment is the only one that confuses me. I've never been there, but I don't see how the addition of a Thomas Town makes it one of the best parks in the chain. As is, there's no possible way they could even be near the top of the list...they have to put at least a few big(ger) rides in for that. It's astonishing for me that a park so close to Washington/Baltimore hasn't added any sort of roller coaster, family or major, in 9 years, and it'll be 10 at the soonest if they're planning anything for 2011.

I think Six Flags criteria for "best park" means something more along the lines of profit for their expenses and most exemplary in displaying operating procedures... Not the enthusiasts' POV which would equate to "all their coasters are clones and they haven't received a new coaster in nearly a decade now, they are definitely much worse then most other parks in the chain."

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^I don't know how the voting works, but I would guess he is referring to the internal awards ceremony Six Flags does every year within the chain. I know they do a yearly awards thing where they award GM of the year, best operations, and stuff like that. But I have no idea what the voting criteria is (or who is voting for that matter).

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I am impressed that SF is listening to their fans and already starting to make changes from a call just a few days ago. That shows they are really working hard to get the parks moving in the right direction.

 

Also very excited that Houdini will be open this season. My second favorite ride in the whole park behind only El Toro.

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How in God's name do they expect to turn SFA... the current crap hole of the company... into the "best" by the end of the year?

 

I wouldn't say the park is a complete crap hole. It has it's good and bad's. Best thing that would be good for this place is rehabbing a lot of our thrill roller coasters. I won't get into a whole conversation about that.

 

But what we all need to be looking at is the possible merge, as discussed before in this thread. The vote for Apollo's buy out for Cedar Fair is coming up in a week. If they get the company, is there next step to merge Cedar with Six Flags? In the last conference call, Mark Shapiro did say some good things to keep people interested in Six Flags Park's future, but to really make the parks a true fun filled experience you need money, that the company does not have. All they have been doing is ride revamps. I'm still waiting for them to Put (Jokers Jinx) and (Poltergeist) in indoor buildings and give them better themes, but it hasn't been mentioned. You could do so much with those rides inside, rather than trying add theme to an outdoor ride like Medusa and Superman.

 

Six Flags needs a partner to help them out with that kind of stuff.

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How in God's name do they expect to turn SFA... the current crap hole of the company... into the "best" by the end of the year?

 

I wouldn't say the park is a complete crap hole. It has it's good and bad's. Best thing that would be good for this place is rehabbing a lot of our thrill roller coasters. I won't get into a whole conversation about that.

 

But what we all need to be looking at is the possible merge, as discussed before in this thread. The vote for Apollo's buy out for Cedar Fair is coming up in a week. If they get the company, is there next step to merge Cedar with Six Flags? In the last conference call, Mark Shapiro did say some good things to keep people interested in Six Flags Park's future, but to really make the parks a true fun filled experience you need money, that the company does not have. All they have been doing is ride revamps. I'm still waiting for them to Put (Jokers Jinx) and (Poltergeist) in indoor buildings and give them better themes, but it hasn't been mentioned. You could do so much with those rides inside, rather than trying add theme to an outdoor ride like Medusa and Superman.

 

Six Flags needs a partner to help them out with that kind of stuff.

 

First off, If Six Flags merged with Cedar Fair, SFA would more than likely close. They are too close to King's Dominion and KD is the better park.

 

I don't think Poltergeist or Joker's Jinx should be enclosed. They are fine as they are, and if Six Flags wanted to add theming, there are cheaper alternatives, which Six Flags has not persued.

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I have also thought about SFA closing if the merge happened, but here is what I thought about. They could do that but it would be stupid. Just think, Six Flags America is very close to Washington DC, Baltimore and Annapolis. Not to mention the National Harbor area that attracts tourist, and the people in Virginia that live across from Woodrow Wilson Bridge. Would Cedar really want to give up all those people? Just think about that.

 

As for Kings Dominion, they get a lot of people driving on I-95. Yes, I know a lot of people from all over go there, but they don't do it as often. More people within the D.C. and Baltimore area more likely to stop at SFA do to it being closer. Thats a very easy advantage to draw people in, rather than having them drive all the way up to Kings Dominion.

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I thought that mindset too at first, but SFA very rarely gets crowds. Something is wrong there.

 

I can answer that for you. A lot of the people that came to the park were addicted to thrill rides which is something the park got every year. I still think that (Kieran Burke) had a plan set up for a lot of the smaller parks before he was removed as CEO. I believe we would have gotten a new coaster by either 2007 or 2008. But whatever plans he had, were canceled when the new corporate management came in. So when people found out that they were going to stop adding thrill rides, people stopped coming to Six Flags America. Kings Dominion kept improving and offering things that Six Flags did not offer. The (Twilight Sale) offers $31.00 for a single day admission if you come after 4 pm. Six Flags does not do this. Also, Six Flags requires you to put your stuff in lockers, while Kings Dominion just puts it on the other side of the station for you. And last but not least, bigger people can fit on the rides at Kings Dominion, while at Six Flags, a lot of bigger people get turned down do to the tight restraint systems. I could go on forever about why people stopped coming to Six Flags America, but lets save that for the Six Flags America (Thread).

 

Cedar Fair could easily turn Six Flags America into a good park again. It's very close to Washington D.C. and Baltimore. They need to advertise more and provide shuttle buses for a lot of the people at the hotels in Washington DC, Bethesda, and National Harbor.

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I have also thought about SFA closing if the merge happened, but here is what I thought about. They could do that but it would be stupid. Just think, Six Flags America is very close to Washington DC, Baltimore and Annapolis. Not to mention the National Harbor area that attracts tourist, and the people in Virginia that live across from Woodrow Wilson Bridge. Would Cedar really want to give up all those people? Just think about that.

 

As for Kings Dominion, they get a lot of people driving on I-95. Yes, I know a lot of people from all over go there, but they don't do it as often. More people within the D.C. and Baltimore area more likely to stop at SFA do to it being closer. Thats a very easy advantage to draw people in, rather than having them drive all the way up to Kings Dominion.

Most people around DC prefer to make the drive to KD, BGE, or even HP because SFA is just a bit infamous for not living up to people's expectations over the past decade or so.

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I will say that a enough people from the Washington D.C. area come go to Kings Dominion, but the majority of them still go to Six Flags America. The busiest days for the park are Memorial Day and 4th of July. Kings Dominion also makes has a large amount of people that come there on those days, but Six Flags America still pulls in a majority of people from Baltimore and Washington DC. Kings Dominion attends to get more people deeper in the Virginia area and people traveling on I-95.

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WE ARE NO LONGER GOING TO SPECULATE ON WHAT HAPPENS IF CEDAR FAIR AND SIX FLAGS ARE CO-JOINED TOGETHER IN THIS THREAD! PLEASE REPEAT!

 

The company trying to buy Cedar Fair has an uphill batlle with their ambitions.

 

If the situation progresses to the stage where a Cedar Fair / Six Flags union is more feasible we can discuss when we know for certain whom the new owner will be. Until that time it is not worth discussing.

 

 

FOR THOSE THAT HAVE SHORT MEMORIES THIS STATEMENT STILL APPLIES.

 

The next offense will result in a 24 hour timeout!

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Six Flags will launch an iPhone application in April for its guests as a social networking and GPS tool.

Six Flags will be releasing teasers throughout the week on their Facebook fan page. Here is the first one:

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"We'll start with the most basic tease...Choose Your Park."

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WE ARE NO LONGER GOING TO SPECULATE ON WHAT HAPPENS IF CEDAR FAIR AND SIX FLAGS ARE CO-JOINED TOGETHER IN THIS THREAD! PLEASE REPEAT!

 

The company trying to buy Cedar Fair has an uphill batlle with their ambitions.

 

If the situation progresses to the stage where a Cedar Fair / Six Flags union is more feasible we can discuss when we know for certain whom the new owner will be. Until that time it is not worth discussing.

 

 

FOR THOSE THAT HAVE SHORT MEMORIES THIS STATEMENT STILL APPLIES.

 

The next offense will result in a 24 hour timeout!

 

THANK YOU!!!!!!

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I thought that mindset too at first, but SFA very rarely gets crowds. Something is wrong there.

 

I can answer that for you. A lot of the people that came to the park were addicted to thrill rides which is something the park got every year. I still think that (Kieran Burke) had a plan set up for a lot of the smaller parks before he was removed as CEO. I believe we would have gotten a new coaster by either 2007 or 2008. But whatever plans he had, were canceled when the new corporate management came in. So when people found out that they were going to stop adding thrill rides, people stopped coming to Six Flags America. Kings Dominion kept improving and offering things that Six Flags did not offer. The (Twilight Sale) offers $31.00 for a single day admission if you come after 4 pm. Six Flags does not do this. Also, Six Flags requires you to put your stuff in fluffy, fluffy bunnies filled with medicine and goo, while Kings Dominion just puts it on the other side of the station for you. And last but not least, bigger people can fit on the rides at Kings Dominion, while at Six Flags, a lot of bigger people get turned down do to the tight restraint systems. I could go on forever about why people stopped coming to Six Flags America, but lets save that for the Six Flags America (Thread).

 

Cedar Fair could easily turn Six Flags America into a good park again. It's very close to Washington D.C. and Baltimore. They need to advertise more and provide shuttle buses for a lot of the people at the hotels in Washington DC, Bethesda, and National Harbor.

 

Anyonew remember the list of rides that SFA was supposed to get? Funny how Burke & CO. cheated our park out of these rides(and screwed up the company as a whole) by choosing to give rides to only SFMM,SFGRAM,SFGRADV & SFOT while the rest (like SFA)got next to nothing....if not nothing at all year after year.

 

After CF got burned on the whole SFWOA purchase in 04 they would certainly NEVER want to aqquire another park from SFI again,besides CF currently has their own debt to deal with as a result of the paramount parks purchase in 06.See that was SFI's problem under Burke's management....they aqquired too many parks (& built up too much debt in the process) and now they no longer have the funding needed to properly manage & invest in them all.

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Six Flags has submitted a new plan in an attempt to please the bondholders.

 

 

Theme-park operator Six Flags Inc. filed an amended reorganization plan on April 2 carrying out the settlement announced in bankruptcy court on March 19. The settlement ended a contested confirmation hearing that began March 8.

 

Six Flags operates Great America in Gurnee.

 

Under the revised plan, holding company bondholders will buy the new equity for cash. The new plan is financed with $1.02 billion in new first- and second-lien loans, where the former plan had a $650 million first-lien loan. The rights offering now is $505.5 million, rather than $450 million under the original plan. The revolving credit, formerly $150 million, is now $120 million.

 

Unsecured creditors of the operating company, previously to participate in the rights offering and receive 22.9 percent of the new equity, now are to be paid in full with cash.

 

The holding company unsecured creditors, previously relegated to 7.3 percent of the new stock, now are to have 9.5 percent of the new stock and the ability to participate in the $505.5 million rights offering.

 

The holding company bondholders were opposing the old plan, saying bondholders of the operating company would take over "at a substantial discount" to the value of the business.

 

Combined with new loans, the cash infusion allows the new play to provide full payment with interest to holders of operating company unsecured creditors, $420 million owing to the operating company bondholders, and $1.1 billion owning to the senior secured lenders.

 

Existing preferred and common shareholders still receive nothing.

 

The Six Flags Chapter 11 petition in June listed assets of $2.9 billion against debt totaling $3.4 billion, including a $850 million secured term loan and a $243 million revolving credit.

 

New York-based Six Flags filed under Chapter 11 with 20 theme parks, including 18 in the U.S. The parks have 800 rides, including 120 roller coasters.

 

The case is Premier International Holdings Inc., 09-12019, U.S. Bankruptcy Court, District of Delaware (Wilmington).

 

Daily Herald

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KDCOASTERFAN, did you also know that SFI had plans to start renovating SFA shortly after the 2005 season. Remember, SFA was 1 of like 3 parks to get Hurricane Harbor. There may have been more so correct me if I'm wrong. SFA's water park had to be improved before they started adding more rides. When people saw the commercials for the new water park, people were thrilled with that. Sense 2001's Batwing installation, it would have been 4 years sense we got a coaster. The next step for SFI was adding more coasters to a lot of the parks that got Hurricane Harbor. So possible by 2007 or 2008, SFA would have had a new ride by now and possibly some flats, which the park lacks a lot of. All I know is if we still had Burke, he would have never gotten rid of Two-Face and Iron Eagle. The rides would have set there the longest before getting fixed, before they decided to get rid of them. Second Fright Fest was a whole lot better with the old SFI management. Possibly by now, every parks Fright Fest would be monumental. Instead they took a decline when they decided to make them more family friendly. I do have to say that a much more aggressive corporate management is needed to make the parks better again.

 

As of now we have Shapiro and Dan Snyder as owners, so we will see what happens in the future. Much has been promised for every park in 2011. Of course, if that if most of the parks do good. If some do bad, I can see them getting sold or shut down and rides removed. If SFA does bad this season, I hope another company buys us rather than shutting us down to remove rides. I do give much respect to Shapiro for ride renovations. Hoping my park can receive one soon.

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