Six Flags [FUN] Corporate Discussion Thread

[SFA Regular]

Maybe parks just need to implement Flash Pass better?

 

At SFOT, the Flash pass line merges with the regular line just before the station in most cases. Exceptions that I can think of are Bobsled, Gold River, and the log flume (Flash Pass only uses Flume 2, though, can't get on Flume 1 with it).

 

That sounds like a good idea. That way nobody is being put before one another. In my opinion, they dealt with the old style of flash pass back when Premier Parks ran Six Flags, so why did they ever have to change it? All they did was please flash pass riders and upset the people waiting in the regular line. So I do agree with (Houston Thrills). It needs toe implemented better, but then again, certain rides are not all designed to be implemented like that. Who knows, maybe Mr. Weber will think of something.

[larrygator]

SFARegular - Do you not understand that those with Fastpass are paying for a better park experience?

 

Does it also bother you when you sit on a plane in coach that some people paid more to sit in First Class?

Does it bother you that others paid more for their cars and are driving much nicer vehicles?

Does it bother you that rich people spends millions to live in bigger houses than you?

[SFA Regular]

SFARegular - Do you not understand that those with Fastpass are paying for a better park experience?

 

Does it also bother you when you sit on a plane in coach that some people paid more to sit in First Class?

Does it bother you that others paid more for their cars and are driving much nicer vehicles?

Does it bother you that rich people spends millions to live in bigger houses than you?

 

No it does not bother me at all. If thats what they want to do then they deserve it. But why does it all have to be implied with a theme park as well. So basically what you are saying is that sooner or later the richer people will rule all SIX FLAGS parks and the average people will only get whats left of it? Of course I'm probably going to get called on over exaggerating but, Kings Dominion seems to operate normally and still gets everything that Six Flags parks don't. People there don't complain in and say "Hmmmmm, man, I sure wish they would start that Flash pass thing that Six Flags does". Instead the park, really trains the ride attendants to move quickly and efficiently, so that trains to get through each cycle and the line can move quicker. In my opinion, Flash Pass is an easy way out for the company not addressing the problem of slow lines.

[Skycoastin Steve]

^^Yeah, I find it very hard to justify a complaint against people who are paying a pretty hefty sum of cash to use a Flash Pass and skip the line. Anyway, a regular Flash Pass just saves you from standing in line, it doesn't save you from waiting whatever the wait time would have been. In some cases, the wait time is over-estimated and you end up waiting longer than you would have if you stood in line.

 

^Rich people won't take over SF parks as long as season passes are as cheap as they are.

[SFA Regular]

^^Yeah, I find it very hard to justify a complaint against people who are paying a pretty hefty sum of cash to use a Flash Pass and skip the line. Anyway, a regular Flash Pass just saves you from standing in line, it doesn't save you from waiting whatever the wait time would have been. In some cases, the wait time is over-estimated and you end up waiting longer than you would have if you stood in line.

 

^Rich people won't take over SF parks as long as season passes are as cheap as they are.

 

Good point made. See, I'm not a hypocrite. I like to hear other people's opinions. I'm going to give it a rest right now. I will continue tomorrow.

[larrygator]

No it does not bother me at all. If thats what they want to do then they deserve it. But why does it all have to be implied with a theme park as well. So basically what you are saying is that sooner or later the richer people will rule all SIX FLAGS parks and the average people will only get whats left of it? Of course I'm probably going to get called on over exaggerating but, Kings Dominion seems to operate normally and still gets everything that Six Flags parks don't. People there don't complain in and say "Hmmmmm, man, I sure wish they would start that Flash pass thing that Six Flags does". Instead the park, really trains the ride attendants to move quickly and efficiently, so that trains to get through each cycle and the line can move quicker. In my opinion, Flash Pass is an easy way out for the company not addressing the problem of slow lines.

 

1 - You don't need to be rich to afford a Flash Pass, especially with the dirt cheap season pass prices at SF. (Sorry to repeat you Steve)

2 - Somebody forgot to train the ride ops at Volcano: Blast Coaster and Flight of Fear to move quickly and efficiently.

3 - Flash Pass is a way for parks to increase revenue and provide a better park experience.

Edited May 13, 2010 by larrygator

[AGLOIATHPENGUIN123]

I hope this all turns out good. And im also wondering if the parks are gonna get the special ride in 2011. I like the flash pass situation as it is so leave it be

[MagicMountainMan]

I'm actually glad that Shapiro is out and I guess I wasn't the only one that thought he didn't know how to really run the "amusement park" side of things. He's definitely the mold for a business man and that's how he treated Six Flags, as a business. Therefore I'm quite glad that they are bringing in somebody that is less business and more amusement park, if that makes any sense. I do commend Shapiro for getting Six Flags through the bankruptcy and getting the chain to actually be cash flow positive, among other things; he definitely did a great job there. So thanks Mark, you will be missed... Kinda.

 

As far as the Flash Passes go, if you don't like them you've clearly never used one yourself. They made my day at Great Adventure so great because I got on so many more rides I was very glad that I had shelled out the cash to get one. And no, the company doesn't use the Flash Pass as an excuse for poor operations. No, Flash Passes really don't add to the wait seeing as the people are actually waiting to get on the ride, just not in the line. And no, rich people are not going to take over Six Flags....

 

Seriously, saying that having better operations eliminates the need for a Flash Pass, go on a really crowded day to any theme park and it won't matter how fast the operations are, you're still going to be waiting for a heck of a long time.

 

-Brandon "Lots of questionable posts here today" Tisor

[ParkTrips]

I'm going to give it a rest right now. I will continue tomorrow.

it is against forum rules to threaten others

[robbalvey]

I'm going to give it a rest right now. I will continue tomorrow.

it is against forum rules to threaten others

[G$ Kurt]

If a ride has three trains, then only the third train should be used for Flash pass and the other two are only for people in the main line so that it keeps moving.

 

No possible way this would make operations faster, in fact it would slow them down significantly. Reason being that there are hardly enough people using Flash Pass to fill every third train, and if there's one thing I know the gp (or anyone for that matter) is not ok with is sending half empty trains while they wait in line.

 

But anyways, it is very sad to see Shapiro leave! I strongly believe that his Chicago childhood was a strong reason the Little Dipper is still around today, and for that one reason alone im sad he's leaving. But truth is he did so many wonderful things for the parks.

 

And hey, isn't Cedar Fair shopping around for at least two new board members now?

[AGLOIATHPENGUIN123]

Call me paranoid but i keep thinking about if they will take out old rides like collossus or the revolution. But i don't think they would do that.

[AGLOIATHPENGUIN123]

Of course that's if they get rid of (Flash Pass).

 

If they don't want to get rid of Flash Pass just go back to making it one designated row. People were much more comfortable with that and it was fair to the people waiting in the main line. Designate (Flash Pass) only for the middle car.

 

Obviously Flash Pass is creating additional revenues for the parks since the program is being phased into ALL the parks.

 

If they get rid of the Flash Pass, how are they going to afford to enclose Joker's Jinx?

 

It doesn't have to be fair for the people in line. The people with flashpassess pay up to 80 dollars more. They should be able to pic a row. I doesn't have to be fair to the people who DIDNT pay 80 dollars more.

[AGLOIATHPENGUIN123]

I prefer they don't get premier rides, because that is what makes parks like SFMM so unique and fun. Other parks that are near have those premier rides and you can ride them there. SFMM has none but its cool because its a new suprise everytime you ride a new ride there.

[SFA Regular]

I prefer they don't get premier rides, because that is what makes parks like SFMM so unique and fun. Other parks that are near have those premier rides and you can ride them there. SFMM has none but its cool because its a new suprise everytime you ride a new ride there.

 

Whats wrong with (Premiers). They seem like good rides to me. Joker's Jinx at SFA spent it's longest downtime in 2006 when it needed a part. But ever sense then it has been running fine. In think it could use the same prep that Poltergeist gets, given the fact that Poltergeist is a lot faster than Jinx. But other than that, I could possibly see a lot of unique attractions coming to Six Flags parks with Alexander Weber as CEO. Paramount's parks tried to build different things, to let them stand alone from other theme parks. Volcano, was very unique, given the fact that they only built one.

 

You never know, maybe one day we will see a (Premier) suspended launch. Thats if the company was willing to pay them the money to design something like that.

[Capitalize]

EDIT - Forget about it, I'm not going to keep bringing up the lockers.

Edited May 13, 2010 by Capitalize

[cfc]

Call me paranoid but i keep thinking about if they will take out old rides like collossus or the revolution. But i don't think they would do that.

 

If you "don't think they would do that," why bring it up?

 

I'd like to issue a friendly reminder that proper grammar, spelling, and punctuation count on TPR. Occasional errors and typos are OK (we all make them), but please be more careful to avoid a string of mistakes--and there has been quite a string of such errors in this thread lately.

 

I now return you to the "Six Flags Bankruptcy & Restructuring Discussion," which is already in progress.

[Houston Thrills]

I prefer they don't get premier rides, because that is what makes parks like SFMM so unique and fun. Other parks that are near have those premier rides and you can ride them there. SFMM has none but its cool because its a new suprise everytime you ride a new ride there.

 

Whats wrong with (Premiers). They seem like good rides to me. Joker's Jinx at SFA spent it's longest downtime in 2006 when it needed a part. But ever sense then it has been running fine. In think it could use the same prep that Poltergeist gets, given the fact that Poltergeist is a lot faster than Jinx. But other than that, I could possibly see a lot of unique attractions coming to Six Flags parks with Alexander Weber as CEO. Paramount's parks tried to build different things, to let them stand alone from other theme parks. Volcano, was very unique, given the fact that they only built one.

 

You never know, maybe one day we will see a (Premier) suspended launch. Thats if the company was willing to pay them the money to design something like that.

 

I don't understand why you have such a hardon for Premier. They're no better/worse than any other manufacturer.

[SFA Regular]

Yea, your right. I guess I'm just a fan boy for Premier launch rides. But anything at this point and time is good. Again, with Alexander Weber, I expect more unique things to be built inside of Six Flags parks. Hopefully it gets to the level where you say "Hmmm, I would really like to go there and ride their new Intamin or family fun racing coaster".

 

By the way, I feel like I'm beating dead horse, when I comment about the same thing. I'm going to give this thread a rest until this evening. Hopefully it will give me more time to think of possible ideas that Alexander Weber will consider doing.

[OldJJman]

^ You might want to consider the FACT that Mr. Weber may not be there next year.

 

As stated in the article, for now, he is only there until they find a permanent replacement.

 

It may be him, it may not. Speculation on what he might/might not do is kinda pointless at this place in time.

 

 

JJ

[JEAPUgrad]

I prefer they don't get premier rides, because that is what makes parks like SFMM so unique and fun. Other parks that are near have those premier rides and you can ride them there. SFMM has none but its cool because its a new suprise everytime you ride a new ride there.

 

Whats wrong with (Premiers). They seem like good rides to me. Joker's Jinx at SFA spent it's longest downtime in 2006 when it needed a part. But ever sense then it has been running fine. In think it could use the same prep that Poltergeist gets, given the fact that Poltergeist is a lot faster than Jinx. But other than that, I could possibly see a lot of unique attractions coming to Six Flags parks with Alexander Weber as CEO. Paramount's parks tried to build different things, to let them stand alone from other theme parks. Volcano, was very unique, given the fact that they only built one.

 

You never know, maybe one day we will see a (Premier) suspended launch. Thats if the company was willing to pay them the money to design something like that.

 

I don't understand why you have such a hardon for Premier. They're no better/worse than any other manufacturer.

 

My guess is he'll wind up in the follow up to the documentary with the woman who feels emotionally attached to the 1001 Nights ride at Knoebels.

 

But only this time it'll be at Joker's Jinx expense.

[I love DW]

Still seems odd to me that right after coming out of bankruptcy Six Flags replaces the CEO that I thought they had done fairly well under (maybe I'm wrong?). However best of luck to Dr. Weber, hopefully the parks can return to greatness again (and dare I say a return to where they are theme parks once again and not just one giant corporate billboard).

[Tiburon503]

I do commend Shapiro for getting Six Flags through the bankruptcy and getting the chain to actually be cash flow positive, among other things; he definitely did a great job there.

"Free Cashflow Positive" is a metric trumpeted to investors who have no idea what earnings are. It's B.S., because it's not linked to profitability. Truly, it's nothing more than a form of "arbitrage" (see "Enron: The Smartest Guys In The Room").

 

Mark Shapiro was ultimately fired by the new Board of Directors, because his initiatives failed to demonstrate real growth for the company. "Six Flags Media Networks", the department responsible for many of the corporate sponsorships and advertising barely registered a blip. In-park advertising equated ~1% of earnings IIRC, and the advertising market has been "soft" during the current recession. Guest acquisition came at the price of "giving away the gate", with the hopes of increased spending covering the steep discounts (as opposed to the huge ticket, concession, and parking increases implemented in 2006). Six Flags emerged from bankruptcy with a sizable $1.1B debt (roughly close to Cedar Fair's $1.76B figure), so I doubt they'll be going on any major spending sprees (especially without the investment clout the publicly traded Cedar Fair possesses). Mark's strategy of fast talking, hard walking was not going to cut it with bondholders. He destroyed their positions (and those of every single shareholder) in the former Six Flags Theme Parks. They swapped debt for equity as a last resort. Mark Shapiro almost sent Six Flags into an automatic "Chapter 7" liquidation, and bondholders took the debt for equity swap as it was the better deal in this soft real-estate market. In four years (financially), Mark did nothing to fix the bottom line, and his few attempts (divestures, in-park advertising) were dismal failures. Let's not forget the SIZEABLE loses Mark Shapiro was hiding that became public during the bankruptcy proceedings either.

 

Mark Shapiro gets credit for cleaning up the parks, and motivating personnel. That's great and all, but that's like rewarding a parent for taking care of their kids. You're SUPPOSED to do that, especially when you're not doing much else! People deride Premier Parks for questionable theming (Scream being the prime and legit example), but refuse to give even the most minute praise for initiatives like "The Golden Kingdom", "Hurricane Harbor NJ", the "Looney Tunes Seaport(s)" at Great Adventure and Worlds of Adventure. Mark Shapiro also left many rides "standing but not operating", removed "family" rides without replacement, and cheaply themed (if it all) many attractions while spinning an experience on par with Disney. Laughable in my opinion. Ultimately, Mark Shapiro failed upward to the tune of $3M, his contractual package for successfully steering the company though bankruptcy. I should fail so greatly!

 

I'd say one of Mark Shapiro's best moves was taking a more hands on role of park oversight as CEO. Kieren Burke delegated too much responsibility to park GMs after the departure of Gary Story. Park GMs were too busy building big coasters to pump up their numbers, while neglecting the small things that make a theme park memorable. In reality, big coasters at the majors didn't doom Premier Parks. It was the "flagging" of many smaller marks (and the huge debts brought on by that), as well as the post "9/11" downturn that did them in. It certainly wasn't "Kingda Ka" or "Tatsu".

[larrygator]

Mark Shapiro gets credit for cleaning up the parks, and motivating personnel. That's great and all, but that's like rewarding a parent for taking care of their kids. You're SUPPOSED to do that, especially when you're not doing much else! People deride Premier Parks for questionable theming (Scream being the prime and legit example), but refuse to give even the most minute praise for initiatives like "The Golden Kingdom", "Hurricane Harbor NJ", the "Looney Tunes Seaport(s)" at Great Adventure and Worlds of Adventure. Mark Shapiro also left many rides "standing but not operating", removed "family" rides without replacement, and cheaply themed (if it all) many attractions while spinning an experience on par with Disney. Laughable in my opinion. Ultimately, Mark Shapiro failed upward to the tune of $3M, his contractual package for successfully steering the company though bankruptcy. I should fail so greatly!

 

I'd say one of Mark Shapiro's best moves was taking a more hands on role of park oversight as CEO. Kieren Burke delegated too much responsibility to park GMs after the departure of Gary Story. Park GMs were too busy building big coasters to pump up their numbers, while neglecting the small things that make a theme park memorable. In reality, big coasters at the majors didn't doom Premier Parks. It was the "flagging" of many smaller marks (and the huge debts brought on by that), as well as the post "9/11" downturn that did them in. It certainly wasn't "Kingda Ka" or "Tatsu".

 

 

As someone who lost quite a bit of money on the stock during the Snyder/Shapiro days. I don't think we can understate the job Shapiro did in cleaning up the parks and motivating personnel. It was not an easy task when you look at where the company was when Shapiro came on board.

 

However, you are correct that as a public company, fiscal oversight is are huge. However, I don't think the fiscal turnaround could start at the company until front line attitude and appearance changed. I think it was a losing proposition from the get go to change both in the time frame Shapiro had when also saddled with so much debt.

 

Moving forward the only way to turn it around is increased gate prices (so folks but that's a fact). However, as unwelcome as that may sound, it would be even more unwelcome if Shapiro has tried to institute higher gate prices with dirty parks and uncaring park personnel.

[KDCOASTERFAN]

Which Cedar Fair and Busch parks/rides have the fluffy, fluffy bunnies filled with medicine and goo? I know BGT used to have them for all coasters a few years back, but during my last visit that was no longer the policy.

Same here as in all my visits to KD in recent years I've always been able to use the bins on the platform for storing loose articles.

 

If attractions have already gone through the planning & design stages then I doubt that there's be any cancellations due to management changes as they'd lose an awful lot of money that's already spent.