Six Flags [FUN] Corporate Discussion Thread

[eugjackson]

Six Flags no doubt would make more $ if they had better food service as customers would be less likely to leave the park to eat if there were shorter waits and lines moved faster. But you have to take into consideration that involves work.

(Note I am not trying to suggest that the people working in or running these restaurants are lazy, what I am saying is that Six Flags would have to dissect a problem and go about fixing it, and that's just not what they do).

 

One time a yr people rarely care about the things the people in the last 10 posts are whining about. They don;t leave the park for food, in fact it's insane to leave the park for food b/c it's such a time suck. 1 or 2 times a yr visitors expect it to busy and just pay for the overpriced food. The 1 or 2 time people are the people parks love margin wise on profits. The season pass holder who goes 10 or more times a yr provides very little margin.

Season passholders make up about half of SF's overall attendance. The dining pass is a huge cash cow for SF that has played a big part in restoring profitability, however it also causes much bigger crowds at the food service outlets. I know of a lot of people (including GP) that used to eat outside the park, then when the dining pass was introduced they started eating inside the park.

 

However the food service is so slow at some of the major SF parks that I personally know many people who have bought the dining pass in the past that refuse to buy it now. They say the service is so slow that they say it ruins their day, and they have gone back to eating outside the park.

 

And I don't know how you can say a regular day visitor "rarely cares about" slow food lines. If you are waiting to buy food, and the wait is 30+ minutes, you would definitely care.

 

In general, a season passholder or member contributes higher aggregate revenue and profitability to the company over the course of the year than a single day guest...additionally, guests enrolled in our membership program and season passholders often bring in day guests and generate "word of mouth" advertising for our parks. During the 2015, 2014, and 2013 seasons season pass holders constituted 56%, 50%, and 48% of total attendance at our parks.

Straight from SF's annual report

 

It really doesn't matter to me as I have no stake in the outcome. I never eat at SF parks, rarely visit SF parks nowadays (I actually could be considered you're once a year visitor), and really don't care. But I feel like the facts at least should be pointed out.

 

 

Your entire post is based on confounding gross revenue with margin. A season pass holder who goes 10 times is getting 20 full meals plus snacks for $80 and free drinks via the season sports bottle. That comes out to $4 a meal not including snacks. A 1 day person who buys 1 meal is spending $13 plus $4 or $5 for a drink. If you read the thing you quoted they talk about pass holders bringing friends, that's why they have all the bring a friend stuff, which many season pass holders don't like b/c the park is packed. The 1 day being a friend are a high margin customer that SF gets access to by season pass holder BAF days.

[xstech25]

OK so a one day guest is higher margin but that doesn't mean Six Flags makes more $ off of them. SF needs their season passholders and they need to sell food to them, hence why they basically said that in their earnings report.

 

Your theory makes sense at a place like Disneyland, which is so crowded all the time that they may actually lose out on money if there are too many annual passholders in the park (because tourists will spend more), but it doesn't make sense at Six Flags. And I don't know how many times the average person goes but I doubt its 10.

[eugjackson]

OK so a one day guest is higher margin but that doesn't mean Six Flags makes more $ off of them. SF needs their season passholders and they need to sell food to them, hence why they basically said that in their earnings report.

 

Your theory makes sense at a place like Disneyland, which is so crowded all the time that they may actually lose out on money if there are too many annual passholders in the park (because tourists will spend more), but it doesn't make sense at Six Flags. And I don't know how many times the average person goes but I doubt its 10.

 

 

Revenue is different than "making more $ off of them", which is actual profit. 10 time visitor Season pass holder is getting things at $4/meal with a drink(excluding snacks). The 1 day person is spending $18 for the same thing. The actual cost of the meal for SF is maybe $2 or $3. So the margin for a day person is $15 for a season pass holder maybe a $2. Dining passes for SF since they are only $80 are really not profitable for a frequent visitor. Ideally SF wants you to spend the $80 for a dining pass and maybe go 5 times, the 10+ visitors are not good for them. I went to a variety of SF parks all over the country for a 15 total visits. That means 30 meals, and works out to $2.67/meal before my snacks. Not good for SF, but great for me.

[xstech25]

I see what you're trying to say but I disagree with you that most dining passholders pass a point of diminishing returns when it comes to redeeming a full value. If you buy a dining pass for $85 and go 5x, redeeming your pass for 10 meals, thats $8.50 a meal. Now take a market like Chicago which has a metro area of 10 million people and you have more than enough people to make the food lines long even with people who are not redeeming it 20x a year. Sadly SFGAm's food service sucks major a** and the lines are frequently 30+ minutes, if there are people refusing to buy the dining pass because of poor service they are losing out on revenue from one of their biggest cash cows.

 

Now you could make the argument that it doesn't matter because people buy it anyway and wait in line even though it makes them mad and I call BS on that. Once again it might be true for many people, but there are also thousands of people per day that walk across the street to Subway, Culvers, Burger King, Steak & Shake, or drive 5 minutes to Gurnee Mills to have lunch/dinner. This is evidenced by the huge swaths of people crossing the street in front of SFGAm in the middle of the day/at dinner time descending on those restaurants.

[Jman0477]

I have been a dining pass member since the first year I live close to SFA prob 20mins or so, I often go 1-2times per week for the water park and the meal I have used each lunch and dinner + snack since march. I see some people who only use lunch credit often not getting the full benefit of the program.

[RollingCoasting]

I think the food-pick up idea sounds like a reasonable idea. It could be marketed as another passholder perk, and it sounds like a selling point in terms of getting a pass for most people.

[eugjackson]

2017 Full Year Operating Schedules are out for most of the warm weather parks OG, OT, FT, DK, the exception is MM

[RollingCoasting]

I have a feeling SFGAm's will be released after NCC on Saturday

[Superbatboy]

How is Six Flags and Vekoma's working relationship currently? I know they had some issues in the past, and wasn't Six Flags responsible for making Vekoma file bankruptcy back in the early 2000's?

 

The reason why I ask, is because once every park in the chain has a Joker and/or Justice League, they'll need a new ride to mass-clone. These new Vekoma launched coasters (Firestorm and Space Warp) look like they are stock rides meant to be cloned and probably relatively inexpensive. Right up Six Flags' alley

[coasterkid124]

I thought for sure that the Mack Power Splash would be the next cookie cutter. Or it could be the Proslide water coasters if it works out for SFFT.

 

I just really hope to see some larger coasters at some point in the future, even if it's just for the flagship parks. I can't imagine that 5-10 years in the future, people will continue flocking to these parks for the same ride collections. Even Cedar Fair isn't THAT conservative with additions.

[Superbatboy]

I just really hope to see some larger coasters at some point in the future, even if it's just for the flagship parks. I can't imagine that 5-10 years in the future, people will continue flocking to these parks for the same ride collections. Even Cedar Fair isn't THAT conservative with additions.

 

Maybe Dive coasters will be the next thing for the flagships, considering there are rumors of one for SFMM. Though they really should just bite the bullet in put gigas in L.A, Jersey, and Chicago at the very least. I guess time will tell...

[prozach626]

Dive coasters would be interesting. That way after a couple seasons we all get to experience the first drop without a holding brake, since Six Flags won't repair it when it breaks the first time.

Edited January 16, 2017 by prozach626

[Superbatboy]

Dive coasters would be interesting. That way after a couple seasons we all get to experience the first drop without a holding brake, since Six Flags won't repair it when it breaks the first time.

Haha right?!? I still remember that video of Valravn cycling without the holding brakes. Looked super fun and intense.

 

It'd be nice for Six Flags' cheapness to pay off once in a while

[prozach626]

In all seriousness though, I had pegged Great America's X-Flight to be the new Batman clone. I didn't necessarily think it would be called X-Flight at all of the parks, but I thought it would have been mass produced by now.

[Superbatboy]

In all seriousness though, I had pegged Great America's X-Flight to be the new Batman clone. I didn't necessarily think it would be called X-Flight at all of the parks, but I thought it would have been mass produced by now.

I had both X-Flight and Superman Ultimate Flight as candidates to be cloned all over Six Flags. There were also rumors of SFGAM's Goliath being cloned. Interesting how none came to fruition. Six Flags must be getting an incredible deal on those 4D free spins, cant help but think they might be installed at EVERY Six Flags park except for MM and maybe Great Escape.

[Superbatboy]

Wish Six Flags would clone the hell out of a mega lite or Hyper GT-X

[prozach626]

Well, I guess Superman kind of got cloned heavy, but not to the extend of Batman. How many Supermans are there now, three? Georgia, Great America, and Great Adventure, right?

[Superbatboy]

Well, I guess Superman kind of got cloned heavy, but not to the extend of Batman. How many Supermans are there now, three? Georgia, Great America, and Great Adventure, right?

Whoops I should've clarified, I meant Superman Ultimate Flight at SFDK. I thought for sure we'd see Sky Rocket IIs all over the Six Flags chain. Compact, low-cost, easy to market. I wonder if the maintenence and/or pull on the power grid is more than they are willing to put up with.

[sirloindude]

I just wish they'd focus the new-ride-every-year mentality more onto their flats. The Justice League rides seemed like a stroke of genius and I was excited to see Six Flags embrace the ability of non-coaster attractions to make an impact, but then I see rides like these Joker mini-4D coasters and the Larson loops going into parks like SFGAdv and SFGAm and I wonder what the heck Six Flags is thinking. I just feel like for the type of guest those rides are going to attract, you're better off saving the money and building a better coaster several more years down the road. Six Flags has built some of the best thrill rides anywhere and while I admit I look at things from a different perspective, I would imagine that it's hard to get excited for these mini-coasters in parks with Batman - The Ride, Kingda Ka, Raging Bull, Goliath, etc.

 

For those that have been to these parks, though, what have been your observations on the Larson loops and the Joker coasters? Do they appear to be drawing a more family-style demographic, or is it pretty much just the thrill-seekers?

[RaceBoarder]

I just wish they'd focus the new-ride-every-year mentality more onto their flats. The Justice League rides seemed like a stroke of genius and I was excited to see Six Flags embrace the ability of non-coaster attractions to make an impact, but then I see rides like these Joker mini-4D coasters and the Larson loops going into parks like SFGAdv and SFGAm and I wonder what the heck Six Flags is thinking. I just feel like for the type of guest those rides are going to attract, you're better off saving the money and building a better coaster several more years down the road. Six Flags has built some of the best thrill rides anywhere and while I admit I look at things from a different perspective, I would imagine that it's hard to get excited for these mini-coasters in parks with Batman - The Ride, Kingda Ka, Raging Bull, Goliath, etc.

 

For those that have been to these parks, though, what have been your observations on the Larson loops and the Joker coasters? Do they appear to be drawing a more family-style demographic, or is it pretty much just the thrill-seekers?

 

Joker very much stands out at SFGAm. Most of the parks clientele isn't aware that the same ride exists at several other SF parks. The only complaints I hear are from enthusiasts.

[sirloindude]

I'm not so concerned about cloning. For example, I wish every SF park had a B-TR (not that it would help me out much in Orlando, but I absolutely love that ride). I guess I was more curious about how popular they were, especially at the larger parks where there are more "substantial" thrills. That being said, if they're popular, good for them. I admit I struggle to look at what a ride for what it is, and that's probably why these mini-4Ds don't hold any real appeal for me other than bolstering my track record.

Edited January 16, 2017 by sirloindude

[livai]

How is Six Flags and Vekoma's working relationship currently? I know they had some issues in the past, and wasn't Six Flags responsible for making Vekoma file bankruptcy back in the early 2000's?

 

 

after years of nothing, this year bought two trains for blue hawk to six flags over georgia

[prozach626]

I just wish they'd focus the new-ride-every-year mentality more onto their flats. The Justice League rides seemed like a stroke of genius and I was excited to see Six Flags embrace the ability of non-coaster attractions to make an impact, but then I see rides like these Joker mini-4D coasters and the Larson loops going into parks like SFGAdv and SFGAm and I wonder what the heck Six Flags is thinking. I just feel like for the type of guest those rides are going to attract, you're better off saving the money and building a better coaster several more years down the road.

I agree that I would also rather see large coaster construction every several years, as opposed to these smaller coasters and additions. However, SF must be getting the return on investment they're looking for, since they have continued this strategy for several years now. I would like to think they are establishing a better mid-level foundation to raise some larger coasters within the next few years. Over the last several years SFSTL has received Sky Screamer, Boomerang (blah), Aqua Twist, Justice League, a Larson Loop, and now Spinsanity. I don't particularly get excited for any one of these additions, but if you look at all of those changes as opposed to just adding one 15-20 million dollar coaster over the last five years, I think the multitude of low to mid level rides creates a greater overall effect on the general appearance and atmosphere of the park. That, and many of these new attractions replaced older attractions in disrepair. Many of these rides can be considered family rides and mild level thrill rides. If you take all of this into consideration, although I won't hold my breath, it wouldn't surprise me to see a significant coaster addition within the next three to four years, which would mix well among the multitude of other recently added 'decent' attractions, as opposed to a golden nugget stuck in the middle of a pile of dog crap.

 

I can only comment on our park, since I don't pay too much attention to other SF parks. (CF fanboy) I can say that I had my first visit this year after a five year break and all of these new attractions, with the addition of several new restaurants and a bar area, made for a pretty positive change in the park. I was pleasantly surprised.

 

HWfan would be proud of this post.

[RollingCoasting]

Whoops I should've clarified, I meant Superman Ultimate Flight at SFDK. I thought for sure we'd see Sky Rocket IIs all over the Six Flags chain. Compact, low-cost, easy to market. I wonder if the maintenence and/or pull on the power grid is more than they are willing to put up with.

 

 

I thought the same thing about Full Throttle. Only $6 Million, very impressive stats (to the GP atleast), and also compact.

 

But Free-Spins are also cheap, compact, easy to market, and supposedly easier to maintain, so I'm guessing that's why Six Flags ditched Premier (For now)

[SixFlagsAstroworld]

I just noticed that Six Flags updated their website to a more mobile friendly version. It's actually a good move since the previous version was pretty buggy on mobile devices