SupremeClientele Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 This is to be taken in the context of if the park was not sold. If the park had not been not sold the creditors would own the land and the assets of the park. You're not totally getting it. The creditors did own the park. They could have operated it if they decided to invest more money into it. They didn't, which is why it went from being in a restructuring (Chapter 11) to liquidation (Chapter 7). They decided not to because they felt that there was no money that could be made off of further investment. You may need to spend money to make money, but spending more money does not mean you make more, right? This seems like such a scam. So the original guys build a 400 million dollar park with other peoples money. It fails, closes and everyone is out their money. Then the same guys pick up the same park with their own money for pennies on the dollar. I can't decide if this is illegal or simply brilliant. Its completely legal. And really, does anyone care who opens it as long as its open? Its an amusement park. Only the worst people alive would have ethical standards about visiting amusements, otherwise you should re-consider going to any funfairs, any facility in Japan, Six Flags, Cedar Fair, Busch, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chauncey Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 And really, does anyone care who opens it as long as its open? Its an amusement park. Only the worst people alive would have ethical standards about visiting amusements, otherwise you should re-consider going to any funfairs, any facility in Japan, Six Flags, Cedar Fair, Busch, etc. uh, why? what have any of the companies you mentioned, every single fun fair on earth (really? everyone?), or the entire nation of Japan (apparently!), done that are so unethical? i honestly can't think of anything — this little deal on the other hand? it just doesn't feel right to me… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capitalize Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 Wow, Cypress Gardens? I'm not sure its possible, but I actually think HRP may fail EVEN WORSE now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larrygator Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 This is to be taken in the context of if the park was not sold. If the park had not been not sold the creditors would own the land and the assets of the park. You're not totally getting it. The creditors did own the park. They could have operated it if they decided to invest more money into it. They didn't, which is why it went from being in a restructuring (Chapter 11) to liquidation (Chapter 7). No, I get it. You are rephrasing exactly what I said. I said that if the creditors had not sold the park, they would still own it. You said the creditors sold the park, so they no longer own it. No difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carolinacaniac Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 If there was ever a rat to be smelled, this may be the nest. I liked the park and all, but this really does seem screwed up. Makes me wonder if other instances like this may have helped to downgrading of our economy. -Gary T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SupremeClientele Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 uh, why? what have any of the companies you mentioned, every single fun fair on earth (really? everyone?) The carnival industry is built on the backs of people working schedules that all but guarantee drug use, to speak nothing of the goon squads who enforce cash transactions among vendors and games. or the entire nation of Japan (apparently!) A good number of the parks in Japan are yakuza fronts, and even Disney Tokyo has had admitted past financial dealings with them. They almost certainly continue to have them so given how ingrained organized crime is in the country. I'd say paying off or contracting services from international crime syndicates is probably up there in terms of unethical things you might do. I mean, think of it this way: Would the fact that BMW used concentration camp labor unapologetically make you think twice about buying an M-Class? Then why would some Sheik losing money in a theme park worry you about returning? God knows wherever these Russian investors are from, they probably aren't nice either. If you prefer to imagine that this was a calculated plan on behalf of the the park's management to sink the park to buy it and manage it again, that's fine. Again, I remind you: It is not your money. Makes me wonder if other instances like this may have helped to downgrading of our economy. Its not really the time for this sort of argument, but the wealth that has been lost was completely illusory. It did not exist. HRP, if anything, was merely part of the illusory economic growth bubble that has since popped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHILLERLC1 Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 This is a coaster forum but let's get our cars right too. Anything "-Class" is Mercedes not BMW. I'm not as into this Baker group analysis as the rest of you are. It's just that this time it's a lot closer in my face to read and as we see there's cases hidden in other areas/arenas where this similar instance may have occurred. I'm just not aware of it. I'm just saying "Oh man" to put it kindly at least to learning they were the last group involved with Cypress Gardens. Hopefully they do something right from here on up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larrygator Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 I'm not too certain of the background, but did Steve Baker and Baker Leisure really run Cypress Gardens into the ground? Hasn't Cypress Gardens been dead for years? Seems like these guys may have dug up the Cypress Gardens body and then reburied it in a deeper hole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SupremeClientele Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 Well then you can talk about Mercedes, CHILLER. Its not like they were adverse to plugging tools in the hands of Jews/Catholics/Gypsies at gunpoint. Walt Disney was reputed to be an anti-semite, and whom openly dreamed of his totalitarian community of the future, yet I don't see many folks arguing that Universal is the more ethical theme park chain. This is nothing. The Cypress Gardens point larrygator makes is also valid. How do you kill something that was already dead by trying to resurrect it? Operating as a water park only is still more than what was there prior to their arrival. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbalvey Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 This is a coaster forum but let's get our cars right too. Anything "-Class" is Mercedes not BMW. No kidding! I was almost buying this guys nonesense about Disney and organized crime and Japan and gypsies and drug lords (sounds like a GREAT idea for a Tarrantino flick) but once he made that BMW mistake CLEARLY he's full of it! Mistaking a BMW for a Mercedes...SHEESH! --Robb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meteornotes Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 This thread has suddenly gotten a lot more entertaining than anything at HRP. I'm getting my popcorn. And my tin foil hat, to keep the space monkeys from reading my thoughts... dt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldJJman Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 I wonder where they got the money to be part of this new investment group.... Call me stupid (you will anyway), but weren't these bozos the ones that got the millions in severance? Just a thought, I think that the fifth investor has got to be none other than that brilliant money mogul from Southern Star Amusements - Danny Rogers!! JJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SupremeClientele Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 The yakuza thing should be well known to any Americans traveling over there given the hard-on the Japanese have for covering up tats, but alas, it never is. Every once in awhile you'll get a story like this: http://www.japantimes.co.jp/weekly/news/nn2005/nn20050528a4.htm ...but most stories, if any develop, are probably not going to be of enough value to a western audience to justify translation to english. Anyhow, the point is no one cares where the money comes from to operate or how its spent so long as they operate. Posing over that issue seems absurd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbalvey Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 ^ That story seems pretty far fetched. Let's see how many times are Disney removed from the organizations? Let's count: Oriental Land Co., operator of Tokyo Disney Resort Once removed. (Disney only licenses their property to OLC) admitted May 20 it has outsourced cleaning services Twice removed since 1984 to a real estate company connected with Three times removed rightists and formerly with the underworld, Four times removed? The whole "formerly" thing is a little confusing. and said it will not renew the contract when it ends in August. Problem solved! I don't see what the big deal here is. --Robb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meteornotes Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 ^Yes, but the article didn't report about the company's connections to the Illuminati and their orbital mind-control lasers. Again, a tin foil hat is going to be your only protection in this war for truth. Seriously, I think I've seen higher journalism standards in the Weekly World News when they used to report on Bat Boy... dt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chauncey Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 If you prefer to imagine that this was a calculated plan on behalf of the the park's management to sink the park to buy it and manage it again, that's fine. Again, I remind you: It is not your money. uh, when did i say that? i don't believe that at all, really, it's just that reading over these stories, something just feels wrong to me deep down in my guts, and it's really turning me off to Hard Rock Park (which i had originally thought was a pretty cool idea, and felt kind of bummed about when i heard about their troubles!) of course, maybe your right: if i saw all the back-room dealings of the major chains laid bare like this i'd feel it was wrong to — i don't know, and i could never know — but i don't see how that could ever possibly make this any more right… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mechanic Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 "Right and Wrong" have very little to do with "Business Ethics". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 ^Yes, but the article didn't report about the company's connections to the Illuminati and their orbital mind-control lasers. Again, a tin foil hat is going to be your only protection in this war for truth. Seriously, I think I've seen higher journalism standards in the Weekly World News when they used to report on Bat Boy... dt What would Hard Rock Park be like....ON THE MOON??!?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meteornotes Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 ^Controlled by the moon yakuza, no doubt. They already run the cheese operation there. dt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 M-Class = Moon-Class It all makes sense now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mechanic Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 No way man... The yakuza left the Oriental Land Co in charge of their moon operations and have moved on to Mars. M-Class = Mars Class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SupremeClientele Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 That story seems pretty far fetched. Let's see how many times are Disney removed from the organizations? The story is pretty clear apart from the engrish: OLC (who own and operate Disney's Tokyo Resort) admitted that they have had about 25 years worth of dealings with an international crime syndicate and apologized, probably because they were publicly outed or whatever. It doesn't really do anything to argue against my main point, which is that no one asks where the money comes from or cares where it goes (as you establish), and that the whole HRP was bought by INSIDERZ~! deal is basically meaningless, assuming the place opens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cfc Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 ^Controlled by the moon yakuza, no doubt. They already run the cheese operation there. dt Actually it's all the work of Mr. Big, Fearless Leader, and Boris Badenov and Natasha. That would certainly explain all the giant, metal-eating mechanical mice currently infesting DisneySea. Only Rocky and Bullwinkle (or perhaps Captain Peachfuzz) can save us now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcjaco Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 This thread is in need of a spanking! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeemerBoy Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 ..or Sam Cassell. Or Both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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