CHILLERLC1 Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 I have the range of Memorial Day weekend or 2 weeks later when I have off the 2nd week of June. I need Family Kingdom, Carowinds, Trimper's, and Griffon still as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jarmor Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 I can see why the new owners of HRP arent that keen on doing the free admission. The park is pretty well themed and has the show venues. most parks that are free admission and pay per ride (from my experience) doesnt really offer ablove average theming or show venues. I can kinda understand the wanting to appeal to the locals because they have to branch out. They have to get their base first them branch out the the nation and the world. Im glad the park was saved and I really hope they have a "lesson learn" mantality when it comes to this season. But in the mean time im gonna go down (or is it go over for me) and get the final credit I dont have lol). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jew Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 So this investment group consists of some of the old owners? Can you say scam? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbalvey Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 ^ Yeah, dude, you didn't know that? The two main guys are part of the group that bought the park! It does seem very shady to me. Someone builds a park for $400 million, runs it totally into bankruptcy, then buys it back for $25 million? Hmmm.... --Robb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy T. Koepp Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 The only thing that would make it any more shady is if they used governmet bailout money to make this purchase. But, if that was the case. Then as an American taxpayer, I would in a sense own HRP. Guy "Self proclaimed owner amd manager of HRP." Koepp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themeparkman25 Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 ^^^That is really weird that the new management is partly owners that ran the park into bankruptcy. But my question is, why did the Delaware bankruptcy court allow FPI to buy it if it just consisted of old owners under a new name? I don't agree with that decision now especially when there was other companies interested that were willing to pay a little more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cfc Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 If you fail spectacularly enough, you can get away with all kinds of crap. But if you're just a small, everyday failure, you're screwed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denning Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 ^^^That is really weird that the new management is partly owners that ran the park into bankruptcy. But my question is, why did the Delaware bankruptcy court allow FPI to buy it if it just consisted of old owners under a new name? I don't agree with that decision now especially when there was other companies interested that were willing to pay a little more. Happens all the time, most of the ownership groups arising out of bankrupcty have at least a partial connection to the previous group. All that matters is that the chance of the creditors being paid the $25 plus some future profits is the best option out there. The old ownership structure did not work, and none of the debt was going to be paid, not $25 million, nothing. All the creditors care about is getting there money back, letting the park stay closed out of spite is bad business as is holding out for theoretical foreign buyers who appear at the last minute. There were months of discussions you have to believe that the $25 million dollar offer was the best real offer actually out there. In bankruptcy work in this economy, or in any economy, you can't play the would have, should have game. Let's just hope that the new ownership group learned from the mistakes of the not so distant past and that the park stays open this time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capitalize Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 So if the current theme falls through, can Nights in White Satin continue to be "Nights in White Satin" and use the song? I found the song to be the only redeeming thing about that ride... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themeparkman25 Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 All that matters is that the chance of the creditors being paid the $25 plus some future profits is the best option out there. The old ownership structure did not work, and none of the debt was going to be paid, not $25 million, nothing. Thanks for all that information, I like knowing the works of this kinda of stuff. But you said that some of the future profits, if there are any, will be paid to some of the creditors that just lost untold amounts of money. I didn't know that was part of the deal of chapter 7 bankruptcy. Also, I thought of the $25 million paid by FPI, it would be paid to some of the creditors with about 10 cents return to the original dollar. When you say nothing was going to get paid, what do you mean? Jordan "I'm a finance major" Darrington Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larrygator Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 When you say nothing was going to get paid, what do you mean? Jordan "I'm a finance major" Darrington This is to be taken in the context of if the park was not sold. If the park had not been not sold the creditors would own the land and the assets of the park. Since the park was sold the creditors now have $25 million. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbalvey Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 why did the Delaware bankruptcy court allow FPI to buy it if it just consisted of old owners under a new name? It's not *just* the old owners under a new name. It's 5 people. 3 of them are new, 2 of them are the old owners. --Robb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denning Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 Now, I cannot say anything for certain, I have not read the filings in the proceedings, nor have I acted for any of the creditors. The question is that asked by the Court is this, what is the most that can be gotten for the creditors. There are three options: 1. Sell the assets off individually and see what you can get. Which is usually not ideal as you have to arrange everything seperately lots of lawyer fees, and details. 2. Do a straight sale which is possibly what happened here and take a loss with no chance of any future payment. or 3. Which is common and what I assumed happen here, arrange for a sale of all of the assets to an entity that wishes to run it as a going concern. In that case, it is possible that to get partial payments from future profits if successful. When selling as a going concern the sale price is usually less, but not extremely far from, the value of the assets being sold individually. In this case, the creditors and their advisors would assess the possibility of their being a positive return from the new entity and discount the minimum sales price accordingly. Usually creditors like the going concern because they already have taken the hard loss on their loans, but still have a possibility of recouping a portion, as opposed to the straight sale when no matter how successful the park may become their is no chance of ever getting a penny more than $25 million. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jew Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 why did the Delaware bankruptcy court allow FPI to buy it if it just consisted of old owners under a new name? It's not *just* the old owners under a new name. It's 5 people. 3 of them are new, 2 of them are the old owners. --Robb I wonder where they got the money to be part of this new investment group.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themeparkman25 Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 Were they always apart of FPI or did they join after the failure? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denning Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 why did the Delaware bankruptcy court allow FPI to buy it if it just consisted of old owners under a new name? It's not *just* the old owners under a new name. It's 5 people. 3 of them are new, 2 of them are the old owners. --Robb I wonder where they got the money to be part of this new investment group.... That is the first rule of financing, only invest other people's money! If it does not work out, then all you lost was your equity ownership shares which you never really paid for. And they got this money the same way they got it last time, by charming banks into trusting them with a business plan. Now even though the credit market is much tighter now, you can see them pitching, at a $400 million investment, we needed to hit $x dollars of spending, we only had $y, but with a $25 million investment we only now need spending of $z to make a profit. So if you liked at $400, you will love it at $25! Keep in mind that for investors theme parks are like sport teams, ego investments that people typically will buy in hopes of the capital value increasing, even if the annual profit projections are not as positive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbalvey Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 OMG! So this gets better. So apparently the new owners of Hard Rock Park include the guys who ran Cypress Gardens into the ground? http://www.orlandosentinel.com/travel/attractions/orl-biz-tourism-and-travel-022309,0,761384.story About six months after ending its management agreement with Cypress Gardens in Winter Haven, Orlando's Baker Leisure Group has a new project: Hard Rock Park in Myrtle Beach, S.C. President Steve Baker said Baker Leisure is now the operating company for the failed music-theme park, having helped arrange the partnership that bought and intends to revive the bankrupt attraction. FPI MB Entertainment LLC, a group of partners that includes Baker Leisure and one of its Russian business clients, has received permission from a U.S. bankruptcy court in Delaware to purchase the assets of the $400million park for $25million. "It's a very well-built park, very well-designed," Baker said of the complex, which opened only last year. "Their biggest problem was that they believed they could attract 3million people a year." That's not possible, even in the best of times, Baker said. He hopes to build attendance to about 1million a year with increased marketing for the park, which is scheduled to reopen Memorial Day. "They made a lot of mistakes that are easy to fix," he said. "That's the good news." Baker said the deal to purchase the park came together after he was approached in September by some of the original investors in the park who were hoping he could find the money — and talent — to pull the park out of bankruptcy. The new company, FPI MB Entertainment, was created as a result. I just don't know what to say.... --Robb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrancew_hod Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 ^So what you are saying is that if we want to ride any rides, we'd better get up there quick when it reopens? Terry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chauncey Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 OMG! So this gets better. So apparently the new owners of Hard Rock Park include the guys who ran Cypress Gardens into the ground? well, then, at least we know what their plans are: rip out all the rides, and replace them with water-slides — they can call it “Hard Water Park!” that probably wasn't funny… this whole deal just sickens me, though — any desire i had to ever go to Hard Rock Park has vanished almost completely, just because i don't want to give up my money to any of these assholes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themeparkman25 Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 I can't believe my eyes, I am literally flabbergasted at this entire thing, it is just too funny. As if the entire 5 month operating life of HRP wasn't enough, a bunch of guys that can't run a successful business without destroying the park created their own LLC and are now at the helm of the park. I am going to have to book my trip out there stat! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montezooma Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 This seems like such a scam. So the original guys build a 400 million dollar park with other peoples money. It fails, closes and everyone is out their money. Then the same guys pick up the same park with their own money for pennies on the dollar. I can't decide if this is illegal or simply brilliant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cfc Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 Their next magical trick: Run HRP into the ground this season, declare bankruptcy, then buy it back for a truckload of turnips, ala Animal Crossing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coasterdude5 Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 I feel dumb for asking this - but are these two people that are on the "team" from HRP's old management team or were they people who got the idea for the park together. If these are two guys who only envisioned the place and helped to get it off the ground so-to-speak and didn't really have anything to do with it failing, then what's the big deal? Now if these two guys were part of the management, then something's messed up. I guess I'm trying to turn a blind eye to this - I really want to see this park succeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbalvey Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 If these are two guys who only envisioned the place and helped to get it off the ground so-to-speak and didn't really have anything to do with it failing, then what's the big deal? Now if these two guys were part of the management, then something's messed up. I don't know for sure, but we met one of the guys who envisioned it but he also seemed to have a hand in the day-to-day running of the park. I'm 99% sure this guy is one of the two guys in the deal. Not sure who the other guy is, but I'm pretty sure these guys came up with the idea, pitched it, built it, and helped to run it. It's not like there were a couple of "Dreamers" that came up with the idea and handed it off to someone else. --Robb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coasterdude5 Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 ^ Ah, then they got the "best of both worlds" . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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