Hard Rock / Freestyle Music Park Discussion Thread

[Carnage]

Led Zeppelin wasn't a very good B&M.

 

In fact, it probably doesn't rank that much higher in my book than the Vortex stand-ups, Iron Wolf, or some of the weaker B&M's. I'm trying to think of a weaker B&M sit down, but honestly I can't! It would be right below Hydra on my list, maybe.

 

Could be a good fit for a smaller park, or one off the beaten path. Like Silverwood getting a used Deja Vu.

 

But yeah, it'd probably be forgotten if placed in a larger park.

 

If CF buys it it'd probably be a decent fit for Michigan's Adventure. Not much else to do at that park.

[ginzo]

 

Really, what DID Hard Rock Park have going for it?

 

Short lines because nobody ever went.

[montezooma]

^^ LZ may not be a hit with enthusiasts but I am sure it would score big with the GP. It would be an ideal purchase for a major park that is looking to replace its outdated Arrow looper with something that is more modern and easy to maintain as well as being something they could market. Here are my theories:

 

Parks that could use it:

Carowinds - could replace Carolina Cyclone, but I think they have something else in mind for the upcoming years.

Valleyfair - could replace Corkscrew

Canada's Wonderland - could replace Dragon Fyre but too soon after Behemoth.

Six Flags America - LZ would be an ideal fit for this park desperately in need of a new ride

Six Flags St. Louis - could replace Ninja, but they did just build EK

Six Flags Great America - would they dare replace Demon...this could work

California's Great America - they really should replace their woody before they look into replacing anything steel

Six Flags over Texas - could look really good across the lake from the Judge

Sea World Texas - perfect fit!

Sea World San Diego - if they could get the permit this would be an ideal ride for them!

Kennywood - if they have room it would be a nice fit.

Magic Springs - these are the guys that built Chang at SFKK so it wouldn't surprise me

 

 

Parks that can't use it:

Six Flags over Georgia - have enough sit down loopers

Kings Dominion - you can't follow up Dominator with LZ although it would fit nicely in Anaconda's location

Six Flags Great Adventure - too similar to Medusa

Dorney Park - too similar to Hydra

HersheyPark - have enough sit down loopers

Busch Gardens (both) - like they would ever buy something used

Cedar Point - Dick would never put anything used in "his" park

Kings Island - too soon after Diamondback

Six Flags New England - too similar to Dark Knight

Six Flags Discovery Kingdom - too similar to Medusa

Six Flags Fiesta Texas - too similar to Superman

Six Flags Magic Mountain - has enough of that same layout

Knott's Berry Farm - no room

Dollywood - Tennessee Tornado fits the bill

Silver Dollar City - same as Wildfire

Marineland - flat coaster...terrain park

Six Flags Kentucky Kingdom - I can't see Six Flags making that big of an investment in this small park.

Geauga Lake - too late

AstroWorld - too late

 

Parks that can't afford it:

Holiday World - for what it would cost to take down, transport and rebuild they could get something that would better fit their needs

Silverwood - same as above

Elitch Gardens - no room

Great Escape - LZ is a major ride...GE is a minor park

Michigan's Adventure - same as above

Darien Lake - same as above

Joyland - please build Greezed Lightnin' before you take on another project!

 

Have I missed anything?

[Carnage]

Cedar Point - Dick would never put anything used in "his" park

 

What about Skyscraper, which was relocated used.

 

But yeah, you make pretty good points about where it could and couldn't go. Though I'm not too sure if some of the rides you mentioned to remove would be the right size footprint for LZ.

[montezooma]

^ I am not saying that it would replace those rides in their current locations. It would just be a replacement for the ride type.

[crazydaveh]

Parks that could use it:

Sea World Texas - perfect fit!

Sea World San Diego - if they could get the permit this would be an ideal ride for them!

 

Parks that can't use it:

Busch Gardens (both) - like they would ever buy something used

 

SeaWorld parks already have quality B&M's. If Texas or San Diego get one, it won't be a "used" one. Even though the Belgians at InBev are known for penny pinching, they don't want to take away the division that's really banking right now (despite the economy, the Florida parks have been busy just as last year) and with their relationship with B&M, I think they would put something in that's unique, and not a sit down mediocre machine.

[spacemtfan]

Knott's Berry Farm - no room

 

Silver Bullet...and Sierra Sidewinder...and Pony Express...

 

I'm sure if they went as far as taking out Bigfoot Rapids, Mystery Lodge, and some backstage buildings, they'll have plently of room for Led Zeppelin.

 

P.S. Just to add...I think the coolest part about Led Zeppelin was the on-board system, but Robb has already said enough about the music.

[montezooma]

^ Yes they fit each one of those coasters into the park, but they were custom designed to fit into and around existing areas. I highly doubt they could take LZ and fit it into that park. Sorry just wont work unless they stick it out in the parking not where there are non existing structures.

[DBru]

Parks that can't use it:

Dollywood - Tennessee Tornado fits the bill

Six Flags Kentucky Kingdom - I can't see Six Flags making that big of an investment in this small park.

 

Parks that can't afford it:

Holiday World - for what it would cost to take down, transport and rebuild they could get something that would better fit their needs

 

Just how large of an investment do you think this would be?

 

And Dollywood has planned to add a B&M such as this for years...

[montezooma]

Parks that could use it:

Sea World Texas - perfect fit!

Sea World San Diego - if they could get the permit this would be an ideal ride for them!

 

Parks that can't use it:

Busch Gardens (both) - like they would ever buy something used

 

SeaWorld parks already have quality B&M's. If Texas or San Diego get one, it won't be a "used" one. Even though the Belgians at InBev are known for penny pinching, they don't want to take away the division that's really banking right now (despite the economy, the Florida parks have been busy just as last year) and with their relationship with B&M, I think they would put something in that's unique, and not a sit down mediocre machine.

 

Take off your enthusiast hat for a minute and put on your park executive hat. If you can pick up a decent coaster at a fraction of the cost...it is something that is extremely marketable, it has great capacity and it is a B&M which are known for easy maintenance and reliability. Why in the world would you not pick this ride up and install it in either one of the CA or TX parks? With the money saved on the ride hardware they could really do a great job with the themeing.

 

LZ would be a great compliment to the existing coasters and something totally unique to both parks.

[montezooma]

Parks that can't use it:

Dollywood - Tennessee Tornado fits the bill

Six Flags Kentucky Kingdom - I can't see Six Flags making that big of an investment in this small park.

 

Parks that can't afford it:

Holiday World - for what it would cost to take down, transport and rebuild they could get something that would better fit their needs

 

Just how large of an investment do you think this would be?

 

And Dollywood has planned to add a B&M such as this for years...

 

From someone who has been involved in the construction of several B&M coasters the typical cost ratios are: whatever the cost of the ride is is equal to the cost of foundation, footings and erection. The footers for B&M's are huge and deep. Meaning that if the original cost of the ride was $15 million then the breakdown would be approximately $7.5 for the actual ride and $7.5 for construction. So they may be able to buy the ride for $1-$2 million but it is still going to cost them $7.5 to install, not to mention the cost in taking the ride down and shipping it to the new location.

 

As far as Dollywood goes...Why would they want to install a sit down looper when they already have one? Not to mention I was just there and I don't recall one area of the park that is flat where LZ could be installed. Not even their parking lot is flat.

 

If Dollywood wants a B&M I would assume they would go with an inverted.

[ginzo]

As far as Dollywood goes...Why would they want to install a sit down looper when they already have one?

 

And a really solid looper at that. I never made it out to HRP, but I wouldn't be surprised if I liked TN Tornado more than LZ. At least TT has some nice forces to it, particularly in the "magic" second-to-last row.

[taytig]

I actually think Marineland would be a great fit. Think about it - they only have 1 large coaster and they have plenty of flat land. It would be a huge draw for the park and would give something else to do in the park. Personally, I'd rather see a water park at Marineland, but they could add any of the coasters from HRP and they would fit quite nicely. They wouldn't have to worry about themeing - they don't do well in that department anyway. Just think - you could hear "Happiness is.......Marineland as you go through the loop!!"

[Carnage]

^ It took them almost two years to build a topple tower. It would take them a decade to relocate a B&M.

 

I really don't see Marineland putting money into a major ride attraction anytime soon.

[Jds03]

I really don't see Marineland putting money into a major ride attraction anytime soon.

 

Agreed. Marine Land will achieve steady revenues as long as Niagara Falls remains a global tourist spot. They don't need any thing new, especially LZ, which would also take ten years to build.

 

I think Marine Land’s greatest investment was the giant red sign next to the casinos that says “let’s all go to Marine Land!”

[BrownStreak]

Parks that can't use it:

Cedar Point - Dick would never put anything used in "his" park

 

Umm...Cedar Downs, the Midway Carousel, all nine of the rides in Planet Snoopy (2008), and I think Wildcat were all "used." For that matter so were the train engines- one of which is named after his wife.

[robbalvey]

Parks that can't use it:

Cedar Point - Dick would never put anything used in "his" park

 

Umm...Cedar Downs, the Midway Carousel, all nine of the rides in Planet Snoopy (2008), and I think Wildcat were all "used." For that matter so were the train engines- one of which is named after his wife.

I'm pretty sure what Shane meant was a "headliner" attraction. Raptor, Mantis, Maverick, Millennium Force, even Wicked Twister. Something he can point to, and proudly say "That's MY ride! I built that."

 

If Dick is going to build a headliner, *DICK* will build the headliner, not pick up someone else's ride at a fire sale.

 

And some of the rides you mentioned, like the old steam trains and Cedar Downs the only way to get some of that stuff is to buy it used.

 

I trust Shane's input. He's known and worked with some of these people WAY longer than any of us have so I believe his advice is solid.

 

--Robb "That's at least what I think he meant." Alvey

[sfgadviperboi]

Oh my God!

 

We're having a fire...sale.

 

God I love the Arrested Development reference!!!!!

 

Not sure if this is allowed but if people have no idea what we are talking about take a look....

 

 

www.hulu.com/watch/1296/arrested-development-fire-sale

[montezooma]

Parks that can't use it:

Cedar Point - Dick would never put anything used in "his" park

 

Umm...Cedar Downs, the Midway Carousel, all nine of the rides in Planet Snoopy (2008), and I think Wildcat were all "used." For that matter so were the train engines- one of which is named after his wife.

I'm pretty sure what Shane meant was a "headliner" attraction. Raptor, Mantis, Maverick, Millennium Force, even Wicked Twister. Something he can point to, and proudly say "That's MY ride! I built that."

 

If Dick is going to build a headliner, *DICK* will build the headliner, not pick up someone else's ride at a fire sale.

 

And some of the rides you mentioned, like the old steam trains and Cedar Downs the only way to get some of that stuff is to buy it used.

 

I trust Shane's input. He's known and worked with some of these people WAY longer than any of us have so I believe his advice is solid.

 

--Robb "That's at least what I think he meant." Alvey

 

Exactly what I meant.

[carolinacaniac]

^Very true.

 

While there are used rides at Cedar Point, the Headliner Rides were all baught new and custom-made for Cedar Point. Heck, even Wicked Twister is more of a custom ride since it is still the only Impulse Shuttle with two spirals, as well as the only one that is over 200 feet.

 

-Gary T.

[JasonTheRide]

Someone save the Moody Blues dark ride! The rest can burn -- better versions can be found anywhere else, but that dark ride looks so triptacular. What a bummer

[Sean Menefee]

Road at Hard Rock Park not set in rock

Area worries parkway name misleads

 

If the towering Led Zeppelin roller coaster's white curlicues aren't enough, there are signs around the bankrupt Hard Rock Park that provide daily reminders of the theme park's failure.

 

The renamed Hard Rock Parkway was supposed to be a long, four-lane road that could handle the tens of thousands of visitors a day who never showed up. The previous street name, Outlet Boulevard, was a remnant of the Waccamaw Pottery outlets, which enjoyed its heyday but eventually went bankrupt.

 

Now, after a Delaware bankruptcy judge granted an order Tuesday to liquidate the park in Chapter 7 bankruptcy, businesses are trying to figure out how to rename the road - and what its new name should be. "We really need to get the name off everything we have," said Lori Posma, director of sales and catering with the Holiday Inn just down the road from the 55-acre, $400 million theme park.

 

The Holiday Inn was one of the few hotels deemed a "partner" resort with the doomed park, and the hotel wanted to make the most of that relationship.

 

That meant printing fliers, tacking the Hard Rock name to the end of the hotel's name, promoting the park on its Web site and prominently displaying its new address, 101 Hard Rock Parkway, in black lettering on the building's foremost facade.

 

The hotel now is trying to cleanse everything of the Hard Rock brand, after the international cafe company told the bankruptcy court that the park's failure had hurt its reputation. The park opened in April and shut down in bankruptcy in September.

 

Posma has begun to look into requesting a name change, which could be expensive.

 

Hard Rock Park paid for the initial road signs, although Horry County discourages roads named after businesses.

 

"That can be problematic," said Carol Coleman, the county's deputy planning director. "When they built this, of course, everybody was hoping it would be a long-term thing."

 

There's not much concern with another road renamed along with Hard Rock Parkway in September 2007. Backstage Boulevard is generic enough to stay, Coleman said.

 

But for Hard Rock Parkway, replacement signs would have to be paid for by the people or businesses making the request, said Cynthia Thorpe, a senior planner with Horry County. That bill could be more than $1,000, depending on how many signs are needed for the road's six intersections, plus a $250 petition fee to start the process.

 

That doesn't seem quite fair, Posma said.

 

"I don't think that any of us should pay for it to be changed, because we didn't want it changed to begin with," she said.

 

There were only a handful of businesses whose address changed, but it proved to be a costly hassle.

 

Staybridge Suites had to spend about $2,500 printing new business cards, pamphlets and letterhead with the road's new name, said Erik Reis, the hotel manager.

 

He joked that if the county were to rename the road based on what's there now - vacant mall buildings - they could call it Ghost Town Road or Tumbleweed Lane.

 

Several of his co-workers pondered what the new name should be.

 

"Something that's historical and timeless would be great, something they should have gone with in the beginning," said Derek Nelson, a regional director for the hotel group that runs Staybridge. "I can't believe they let [the name] pass to begin with."

 

Shelly Kirkbride and Wendy Hucks suggested renaming the road Waterway Boulevard, which conveniently meshes with the name of their business, Waterway Maintenance on George Bishop Parkway.

 

"I mean, it's going to the waterway," Hucks said.

 

Their office faces the largest intersection in the area, Hard Rock Parkway and George Bishop Parkway, where several new street signs hang above the scant traffic.

 

"Think about all those big green signs," Kirkbride said. "What a waste of money."

 

Patricia Sourlis, owner of the Boathouse Waterway Bar & Grill on Hard Rock Parkway, said it never really made much of a difference to her what the road was named, besides having to reprint various materials.

 

"We would rather it go back to Outlet, because we still have stuff with Outlet Boulevard on it," she said.

 

Posma says her hotel worries about guests who book a room on Expedia.com or other travel sites expecting the park to be open, only to be disappointed when they arrive.

 

It takes a while for the travel sites to be updated, she said.

 

Some online sites still have not reflected the fact that Hard Rock Park ever existed. MapQuest shows the renamed Hard Rock Parkway, but Google and Yahoo maps still have the previous Outlet Boulevard name. Google Maps' satellite picture of the area shows undeveloped dirt where a park would one day rise.

 

Then again, whatever name the road takes might not make too much difference to the drivers who frequently use it.

 

"I don't think we ever thought about [the name]," said Mike Worley, a volunteer at the Christ United Methodist Church.

 

Most just say the church is across from Medieval Times. "I don't know if you were to ask the congregation what that four-lane road out there was, if they'd be able to tell you."

 

http://www.myrtlebeachonline.com/679/story/733607.html

[BeemerBoy]

Liquidation Lane.

Epic Fail Blvd.

Fire Sale Freeway.

Never Think About Building Anything Here Again Road.

[SharkTums]

Most just say the church is across from Medieval Times. "I don't know if you were to ask the congregation what that four-lane road out there was, if they'd be able to tell you."

 

Well that pretty much supports the argument that it wasn't just the 'economy' and 'fuel prices' that killed the park. The freakin locals didn't even care about the place!

 

Again, had this park maybe offered a discount to locals, or a night pass or something maybe the church goers (and it was a pretty big church) across the street would have noticed or cared about the place!

[Sean Menefee]

Liquidation Lane.

Epic Fail Blvd.

Fire Sale Freeway.

Never Think About Building Anything Here Again Road.

 

This sounds like a good Photoshop contest idea I'm thinking.