Hard Rock / Freestyle Music Park Discussion Thread

[southerncoasterguy]

^ NO!!! No park company should buy this place. The park was built on a FAILED ENTERTAINMENT COMPLEX!

 

And then the park FAILED.

 

There is a reason why TWO entertainment venues in the same location both failed. It's a poor location and a bad idea.

 

Anyone who would buy this park OTHER than to purchase all the rides cheap and distribute them to other parks is a fool.

 

--Robb

 

I am going to disagree with you Robb. As someone who has constantly visited and vacationed in Myrtle Beach, it is not a poor location. Down the road to the right you have the beach and down the road to the left you have a discount shopping center. BOTH pull in massive amounts of people.

 

The problem with HRP was advertising. They did not advertise outside of the state of South Carolina effectively. I know people in Spartanburg SC in the upstate who never heard of Hard Rock Park. Why? Poor marketing. They did not budget in advertising as they should have, at least, the proper dollar amount.

 

The fact you base its closing on something like location is a rather poor choice of criticism.

 

EDIT: You also forget that Hwy 501 in front of HRP is where a huge majority of travelers pass by to get to the shoreline.

[southerncoasterguy]

I said it back when they first announced they were closing for the rest of the season, and I'll say it now -- The park ended up with no identity, and that was its main problem. The theme of music was not pulled off well at all, and quite frankly outside of Vegas like someone suggested, I don't think that it could be. Nights in White Satin is *not* a ride that is good for families. But most of their rides were kid / family rides at heart. So, you create a park that doesn't cater toward families, but then have rides that cater toward families... and you expect it to work?

 

You create a theme that no 1-13 year old is going to care about, yet you make most of the rides target their demographic? When I first saw this, I was wondering if I missed something, but nope -- that was their ultimate business plan.

 

I'm sorry, this was an apparent problem with the park from the beginning. I saw it from the pictures. Robb saw it when he visited. I've heard from others who visited that said the same thing. 'Interesting place, but it won't last long.'

 

The economy has nothing to do with it. If the economy was stronger, it still wouldn't matter if the park couldn't come up with a coherent theme, no one was going to go. And it clearly couldn't and didn't. The fact that their money was so tight that they went bankrupt within a short period after opening means they don't understand business. I looked into starting a business once, and took some classes, and they said that you should have enough money upon opening to operate for a year if you don't make a dime, just in case. Obviously, that lesson was lost here.

 

So, oddly enough, I feel kind of glad that this thing crashed and burned like it did. I love theme parks. I want more successful theme parks. But I also don't want any random person deciding that they way to make a theme park is to just put anything together and it will work. If this took seven years of planning, they were seven wasted years.

 

And the fact that the executives want to get paid nearly $1 million after the park spectacularly imploded? Amazing.

 

No identity? Ive been to HRP seven times as a season pass holder. I felt there was an identity there for sure. Did you visit? When?

 

The park was a collection of different genres and eras of music. It was fairly obvious. The way the park turned rock music into reggae seamlessly as you walked from Rock and Roll Heaven towards Zeppelin was pretty damn cool. Every section of the park had local acts which were enjoyable. Ive had as much fun at HRP as I have at many parks of its size and caliber. Like I have said in a previous post, the failure is due to a crappy economy and poor planning.

 

Have you BEEN to South Carolina? We are currently a very poor state. Hotels and restaurants were down sharply this summer, leading to a large percentage of people not at the beach this summer. These people hit up amusement places in DROVES when times are good. But these are people at the beach who visit from West Virginia and Ohio, states hit hard by our crappy economy. So you cant say the economy had nothing to do with it.

 

That is ignorant.

 

EDIT: I must also state that if you have never been to a park you should not pass judgement on it. That would be like me saying a philly cheese steak is gross, even though I had never tried one. Granted, you have a right to an opinion, but as long as that opinion is informed.

[SharkTums]

^Please don't double post. In fact it's clear you need to read our rules and ToS as we don't allow double posting, and you responded to a spam thread.

[Bolliger&Mabillard]

^^I've never eaten anything with lard in it but I know it's fattening. I understand that you can't pass judgement on a place if you've neer been to it-but that's not what we're doing. No one is focusing on the claim that the park was good or bad. The park failed. I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just saying that this arguement is flawed. I don't have to physically go to Wall Street to know how the stock market works. The park failed in this economy. Other parks are failING. There's a huge difference.

[BarryH]

Random thought:

 

I was watching a video of Nintendo's Virtual Boy and then read more of this thread on HRP.

 

Then I thought...

 

Virtual Boy and HRP...separated at birth?

[cgodsey]

One of the possible buyers of Hard Rock Park toured the grounds today. Oh, and it was NOT Cedar Fair

[coasterdude5]

Good to see there's interest. I say give it a shot, what's the worst that can happen (that hasn't already)?

[goatdan]

I think they can turn the place around for less than 20 million in cap ex along with lowering the gate to $29.95 and nixing the parking fees. Heck, they could buy all 30 of the rides for sale at Cypress Gardens and essentially double the amount of attractions and have millions left over to pump into the park.

 

But then they would have a TON of operating expenses, and unless huge crowds turned out they would have the same cash flow problem that they had this year.

 

Using this same logic, couldn't we make Six Flags far more profitable by dropping their ticket prices everywhere to $20 and having them put in portable flats that they can tour from park to park every year? It doesn't sound like a winning strategy to me...

 

I was surely the odd kid out at that age as I was already listening to heavy and hard rock by 3rd grade. My older sisters would bring home the latest Black Sabbath and Led Zep records and I was thrilled! I definitely would've thought this park was cool way before I turned 13. But you may be right that times have changed. Now the kids seem to be all into "High School Musical" crap.

 

Maybe this park was made just for the thrillerman1 demographic But seriously, I didn't discover rock music until I was 14. Most people that I know didn't have any care for it until around that age. Yet I had rode a mine train when I was three. And, by the time I was 14, I didn't really care about the mine trains any more. I liked Arrow looping stuff (!!)

 

No identity? Ive been to HRP seven times as a season pass holder. I felt there was an identity there for sure. Did you visit? When?

 

No, but I also knew that I had no need to visit. I, like everyone else, has to decide which parks I want to go to since I have limited time and a limited budget. And based on what I saw, I chose to go to parks such as Fun Spot in Indiana over Hard Rock Park (woot Afterburner!), and I'm not in any way disappointed I did.

 

The park was a collection of different genres and eras of music. It was fairly obvious. The way the park turned rock music into reggae seamlessly as you walked from Rock and Roll Heaven towards Zeppelin was pretty damn cool. Every section of the park had local acts which were enjoyable. Ive had as much fun at HRP as I have at many parks of its size and caliber. Like I have said in a previous post, the failure is due to a crappy economy and poor planning.

 

A collection of different genres isn't an identity, it is a theme. What you're describing it the thematic elements. And that is great and really helps to enhance a park if they have a coherent identity to get behind. I would define 'identity' as a sense of what it was at its heart.

 

Cedar Point doesn't have a theme really, but I would say that its identity is a park that builds the tallest and fastest rides aimed at thrill seekers.

 

Hard Rock Park didn't have an identity like that, unless you called it an amusement park with rides aimed mostly at kids with classic rock themes.

 

Have you BEEN to South Carolina? We are currently a very poor state. Hotels and restaurants were down sharply this summer, leading to a large percentage of people not at the beach this summer. These people hit up amusement places in DROVES when times are good. But these are people at the beach who visit from West Virginia and Ohio, states hit hard by our crappy economy. So you cant say the economy had nothing to do with it.

 

That is ignorant.

 

It isn't ignorant when both Cedar Fair and Six Flags announced an increase in their attendance this year chain wide recently. I HAVE been to South Carolina, while I don't know the exact attendance figures, Carowinds is getting a 'new' coaster next year, so Cedar Fair must think there is some upside in that economy.

 

EDIT: I must also state that if you have never been to a park you should not pass judgement on it. That would be like me saying a philly cheese steak is gross, even though I had never tried one. Granted, you have a right to an opinion, but as long as that opinion is informed.

 

I don't need to have been to the park to have an informed opinion of it. In fact, perhaps people like me who looked at it and made the informed decision that we had no interest in going is part of the reason that the park suffered like it did.

 

Hard Rock Park and its mismanagement remind me of Geauga Lake and the mismanagement there that closed it. You can't suddenly one day wake up and expect to have 2 million people show up at your park unless you're Disney, and even then it is no guarantee for success. This park needed to decide what they were going to be -- extreme park based around hard rock music, or a music themed park that should have picked a different name, or a kiddie park, or whatever -- and then built small and tried to grow. Instead, they built a mine train in the middle of no where that no one over the age of 14 could have loved, and stuck a song on it that no one other than thrillerman1 under the age of 14 would have known.

 

I understand that *you* liked it, and that is great, but it is clear that not enough people did or it would still be an operating park.

[OFortuna]

No, but I also knew that I had no need to visit.

 

This is pretty incredible. I for one would hope to never to judging parks (or really, anything) entirely off of internet comments, or at least admit that. In that case, Esselworld is a hidden gem and Disneysea is overrated as hell.

 

Hard Rock Park and its mismanagement remind me of Geauga Lake and the mismanagement there that closed it. You can't suddenly one day wake up and expect to have 2 million people show up at your park unless you're Disney, and even then it is no guarantee for success. This park needed to decide what they were going to be -- extreme park based around hard rock music, or a music themed park that should have picked a different name, or a kiddie park, or whatever -- and then built small and tried to grow. Instead, they built a mine train in the middle of no where that no one over the age of 14 could have loved, and stuck a song on it that no one other than thrillerman1 under the age of 14 would have known.

 

How do you know "no one over the age of 14" would like the mine train? You didn't go on it. I'd be mildly surprised given these comments if you rode another of the more standard Vekoma models like at Walibi Belgium.

 

You can argue the merits of whether or not a $400 million dollar park in Myrtle Beach would make money all day, whether or they should have moved the project to Houston, etc etc etc. Arguing issues with the underlying themes of a park having never been there and only having anecdotal evidence is kinda weak.

[ginzo]

You can argue the merits of whether or not a $400 million dollar park in Myrtle Beach would make money all day,

 

We already know the answer to this question: no.

[cfc]

OFortuna wrote:

How do you know "no one over the age of 14" would like the mine train? You didn't go on it. I'd be mildly surprised given these comments if you rode another of the more standard Vekoma models like at Walibi Belgium.

 

The European mine trains, including the one at Walibi Belgium, tend to be nicely themed, at least. Life in the Fast Lane isn't.

 

Just a word of caution from your friendly neighborhood site moderator: I don't like the tone I've been sensing in this thread lately. Please keep the discussion friendly.

[OFortuna]

We already know the answer to this question: no.

 

And is it due to a lack of theming? Improper theming? Lack of identity? Honestly, if every coaster enthusiast went twice and they sunk in the price of escorts for them into the park to make them feel welcome and persuade them to speak of it well on the internet or by word of mouth, that place would still be closed, regardless of what the theme was or how well it was carried out.

[ginzo]

Honestly, if every coaster enthusiast went twice and they sunk in the price of escorts...

 

Escorts? I don't think BeatleBen would be willing to give up his escorts just to visit a park.

[goatdan]

No, but I also knew that I had no need to visit.

 

This is pretty incredible. I for one would hope to never to judging parks (or really, anything) entirely off of internet comments, or at least admit that. In that case, Esselworld is a hidden gem and Disneysea is overrated as hell.

 

I never said that I judged it "entirely off internet comments." I looked at their ride line up, their location, the cost to get in, and what I thought would be interesting to do once there:

 

- I'm not a huge Hard Rock fan anyway. Strike 1.

- I like small, twisty and intense rides the most. HRP had none of those. Strike 2.

- It was a few hundred miles away from anything else that I did this year. And the first two strikes didn't make it worth the drive to me. Strike 3.

 

Truthfully, I didn't even look at internet comments about the place until after I had decided that I wouldn't be going, and they just confirmed what I had thought about the place.

 

How do you know "no one over the age of 14" would like the mine train? You didn't go on it. I'd be mildly surprised given these comments if you rode another of the more standard Vekoma models like at Walibi Belgium.

 

First off, I said "love". How many people do you know over the age of 14 who go to Magic Mountain and state that Gold Rusher is the best ride there, and the best ride ever. And Gold Rusher arguably has more of a 'theme' than LITFL did, as it actually has stuff to go through. And I will admit, you're right. It isn't "no one." I'm sure that someone likes it the most. But it isn't the majority of people who will name X2 or Goliath or Tatsu.

 

As for the Walibi model, it is themed which makes a heck of a lot of difference in a mine train, don't you think?

 

You can argue the merits of whether or not a $400 million dollar park in Myrtle Beach would make money all day, whether or they should have moved the project to Houston, etc etc etc. Arguing issues with the underlying themes of a park having never been there and only having anecdotal evidence is kinda weak.

 

If that's your opinion, fine -- but I would argue that arguing about issues with an underlying theme of a park isn't anecdotal if the park couldn't even make it through a full season of operation.

 

And really, it's the off season. I'm not trying to 'offend' you by stating why I feel that HRP didn't make it. But for whatever reason, it seems like you want to sit here and say that my opinions are wrong since I never went to the park, and therefore the park was probably great. Clearly, it wasn't or it wouldn't be closed right now. So something went wrong.

 

If your argument is the economy, as I pointed out both Cedar Fair and Six Flags announced upticks in their attendance this year. What makes HRP so different than one of those parks? And if that isn't the argument as to why the park went out of business, can you share what was. I'm interested in the theories.

[OFortuna]

I never said that I judged it "entirely off internet comments." I looked at their ride line up, their location, the cost to get in, and what I thought would be interesting to do once there:

 

- I'm not a huge Hard Rock fan anyway. Strike 1.

- I like small, twisty and intense rides the most. HRP had none of those. Strike 2.

- It was a few hundred miles away from anything else that I did this year. And the first two strikes didn't make it worth the drive to me. Strike 3.

 

Truthfully, I didn't even look at internet comments about the place until after I had decided that I wouldn't be going, and they just confirmed what I had thought about the place.

 

Okay, you explained why it is you didn't rush out there, but not why you seem to actively dislike the park and are actively happy about its demise. You not liking Hard Rock Cafe's IPs doesn't tell me why amusement hobbyists are better off without a theme park.

 

First off, I said "love". How many people do you know over the age of 14 who go to Magic Mountain and state that Gold Rusher is the best ride there, and the best ride ever. And Gold Rusher arguably has more of a 'theme' than LITFL did, as it actually has stuff to go through. And I will admit, you're right. It isn't "no one." I'm sure that someone likes it the most. But it isn't the majority of people who will name X2 or Goliath or Tatsu.

 

I didn't know it was intended to fill the same space for HRP that X2 does at SFMM (ie, a headlining attraction). Certainly news to me.

 

As for the Walibi model, it is themed which makes a heck of a lot of difference in a mine train, don't you think?

 

The Walibi model is a damn forceful ride. If I had a choice of a B&M in a field or that thing, I'd pick the mine train. YMMV and all the rest. Additionally, I'm not arguing the position of how themed it was using primarily some other dude's opinion as my basis and not, you know, my own personal opinion.

 

If that's your opinion, fine -- but I would argue that arguing about issues with an underlying theme of a park isn't anecdotal if the park couldn't even make it through a full season of operation.

 

The reasons you're giving are absurd. The owners were "mismanaging" and "conceited" because, essentially as you define it, the park opened in the first place. The nerve!

 

And really, it's the off season. I'm not trying to 'offend' you by stating why I feel that HRP didn't make it. But for whatever reason, it seems like you want to sit here and say that my opinions are wrong since I never went to the park, and therefore the park was probably great. Clearly, it wasn't or it wouldn't be closed right now. So something went wrong.

 

I'm not arguing one way or the other about the park's quality. I think the issue wasn't quality but location and cost. And I think its fallacy to say that we're "better off without it", as if its closure somehow will ensure strength elsewhere in the industry.

 

If your argument is the economy, as I pointed out both Cedar Fair and Six Flags announced upticks in their attendance this year. What makes HRP so different than one of those parks?

 

Market location was everything. If it is purchased and continues to run as HRP in the future, it has a far better chance of success. After all, whomever buys it will do so for a whole lot less than $400,000,000.

[larrygator]

There are a lot of back room financal dealings that we are not privy to.

 

However, taking on $400,000,000 in debt to start a park is a ton of money in this economy.

 

It seems that there was no way the HRP could begin to start paying down debt unless they reached their attendance projections (which were very liberal) with people entering at a specific price point (which again was set too high).

 

Sure management is to blame if the goals were too lofty, they wrote and signed off on the business plan. However, whoever loaned money for this endeavor could have executed more due diligence before pursuing the red herring.

[OFortuna]

There are a lot of back room financal dealings that we are not privy to.

 

However, taking on $400,000,000 in debt to start a park is a ton of money in this economy.

 

It seems that there was no way the HRP could begin to start paying down debt unless they reached their attendance projections (which were very liberal) with people entering at a specific price point (which again was set too high).

 

Sure management is to blame if the goals were too lofty, they wrote and signed off on the business plan. However, whoever loaned money for this endeavor could have executed more due diligence before pursuing the red herring.

 

Interesting side note: The number of newly built mid-large theme parks in the west to make money in their initial entrance to the market is pretty low over the last two decades. Visionland and Jazzland both needed to get to their second/third buyers before they began to actually start breaking even. DLP is a particularly infamous example. IOA never quite met expectations. Gilroy Gardens is on its second owner/manager. WBMW Germany and Madrid are too.

[Bolliger&Mabillard]

^And how many of those parks you mentioned had to close indefinately?

 

Folks, don't worry about it. Barack Obama's gonna fix it!

[goatdan]

Okay, you explained why it is you didn't rush out there, but not why you seem to actively dislike the park and are actively happy about its demise. You not liking Hard Rock Cafe's IPs doesn't tell me why amusement hobbyists are better off without a theme park.

 

I said this in an earlier post here:

 

"So, oddly enough, I feel kind of glad that this thing crashed and burned like it did. I love theme parks. I want more successful theme parks. But I also don't want any random person deciding that they way to make a theme park is to just put anything together and it will work. If this took seven years of planning, they were seven wasted years."

 

I didn't say that I was "actively happy" about its demise, but I am in some ways glad that it didn't make it. Since apparently you need me to explain this deeper, here's the thing...

 

In the way of small parks that grow, that wasn't what Hard Rock Park was meant to be in any way from the beginning. Small parks that grow are just that. And as they grow, they can adjust and enhance things in the future. HRP wasn't made like one of these, so it is no use comparing it to that.

 

On the flip side, you have the mega parks that are designed and have a ton of detail paid to them when they are first made. The thing about these parks is that I feel that they have to be really thought through or else they shouldn't exist as parks. DCA shouldn't exist as a park. I actively dislike that park, and yes I have visited it and was disgusted that I did. HRP was designed in the vein of DCA -- a park tossed together with a bunch of off the shelf stuff and a theme that was very hard to hold the park together with.

 

I'll admit that I'm "actively" happy that DCA has failed as badly as it has because it is a bad experience. HRP looked in every way to be a bad experience too.

 

I didn't know it was intended to fill the same space for HRP that X2 does at SFMM (ie, a headlining attraction). Certainly news to me.

 

Okay then, name me the top three headlining attractions at HRP. Other than LZ, what do you really have?

 

The Walibi model is a damn forceful ride. If I had a choice of a B&M in a field or that thing, I'd pick the mine train. YMMV and all the rest. Additionally, I'm not arguing the position of how themed it was using primarily some other dude's opinion as my basis and not, you know, my own personal opinion.

 

Why are you taking this so personally? Did you work there and is it that I'm making statements about stuff that you don't like? I don't get it.

 

Why can I not base my opinions of how themed a ride is based on pictures of that ride, as well as an on ride video of it, as well as people who I personally know and trust telling me that it sucked and didn't have a real theme?

 

The reasons you're giving are absurd. The owners were "mismanaging" and "conceited" because, essentially as you define it, the park opened in the first place. The nerve!

 

So you would say that a park that didn't last though an entire year was well managed?

 

Like I said before, if you take classes on getting into business, they say you should have enough cash on hand to get you through a year no matter what happens. Clearly, HRP didn't have enough cash to get it through one full year of operation. If I heard that in a business basics class, I'd say that "mismanaged" is a pretty solid term for it, and I'd agree that they were "conceited" if they thought that they knew about this more than anyone else.

 

Remember at the beginning of the season when HRP was advertising that you should pre-buy tickets for certain dates because the park was certain to sell out every day? That was when my opinion on the park first started to sour...

 

I'm not arguing one way or the other about the park's quality. I think the issue wasn't quality but location and cost. And I think its fallacy to say that we're "better off without it", as if its closure somehow will ensure strength elsewhere in the industry.

 

But quality goes into cost.

 

And I *do* think that the industry will be stronger if the closure of HRP makes the people behind the 'Decades' concept and parks like Wild West World and whatnot are forced to think more about what they do before they do it.

 

"Build it and they will come" is *not* a good business strategy.

 

Market location was everything. If it is purchased and continues to run as HRP in the future, it has a far better chance of success. After all, whomever buys it will do so for a whole lot less than $400,000,000.

 

But market location was the management's decision. They decided where to put the park. There wasn't anything there before it (other than a failed entertainment venue) so it wasn't like they were told it *had* to go there.

 

I said this before, and I still believe it to be true -- if it continues to run as HRP, it will have a ton of trouble unless they either greatly reduce the size and cost of the park (and maybe the theme), or if they invest a TON of money into the park. If the park was making much of any money, they probably could have made it until at least next year. That didn't even happen.

[OFortuna]

In the way of small parks that grow, that wasn't what Hard Rock Park was meant to be in any way from the beginning. Small parks that grow are just that. And as they grow, they can adjust and enhance things in the future. HRP wasn't made like one of these, so it is no use comparing it to that.

 

On the flip side, you have the mega parks that are designed and have a ton of detail paid to them when they are first made. The thing about these parks is that I feel that they have to be really thought through or else they shouldn't exist as parks.

 

Oh good lord. And so because it had the potential to not meet your lofty vision of amusement park nirvana, I as an enthusiast am better of having never visited? Or millions of other potential guests? That's some ego you've got there.

 

Okay then, name me the top three headlining attractions at HRP. Other than LZ, what do you really have?

 

Well, I know off the top of my head you've got two much larger coasters in the park, so I'm going with them first. So, its not a headliner?

 

Why are you taking this so personally? Did you work there and is it that I'm making statements about stuff that you don't like? I don't get it.

 

I'm not taking anything personally. I just think you're wildly offbase.

 

But quality goes into cost.

 

Quality only matters to such a degree. You can build a Michelin three star in Cameroon, but that doesn't mean people will eat there.

 

But market location was the management's decision. They decided where to put the park. There wasn't anything there before it (other than a failed entertainment venue) so it wasn't like they were told it *had* to go there.

 

Again, covered already in vigorous detail. The failings of the business plan have nothing to do with how good the park was.

[OFortuna]

^And how many of those parks you mentioned had to close indefinately?

 

Visionland closed god knows how many times. Jazzland's second season was abruptly shortened. I believe Bonfante Gardens went short in its first season also. DLP was astoundingly close to closing for a Disney park till they sold out to the middle eastern investor group.

[alexinla]

If you have a couple of millions in spare change, the park can be yours as it will auctioned off now

http://www.myrtlebeachonline.com/news/breaking_news/story/670507.html

[dj snow]

If some group can pick up this park for anywhere close to that $35 million figure, then I'd have to imagine that they could make a go of it. That removes a lot of hurdles for an operator, leaving a much easier path to profitability.

 

That licensing fee, though... wow. I'd like to see the park reopen with the theme intact, but $2.5 million a year for the Hard Rock name is a big chunk of the revenues.

[southerncoasterguy]

Now you freaking listen to me right now. Every single one of you. I dont know where you get off not allowing us to DEBATE a damn topic. We are debating a topic and I think that is healthy and fair. If you want to BAN us for debating something I think you need to check your values, you understand?

 

If this is a website which bans people for debating a topic, you guys need to evaluate yourselves.

 

What I notice, and what the rest of you need to notice, is that if any of us say ANYTHING you mods and Robb and Elissa do not like, you automatically ban or try to discredit. You never ever take people for their word or attempt to understand what we are trying to get across. It is either your way or the highway. That goes for JeffJohnson, CFC and anyone in your group who goes out on trips with you guys.

 

We try to say ANYTHING you dont like and you put us down for it. It is pathetic and I am wondering why I post at a forum where individual thoughts are put down.

 

So go ahead and ban me now. I know you will because you don't care about anyone but your posse. Its true and you damn well know it.

[Shavethewhales]

I'm going to go ahead and bet that PARC, if anyone, picks this one up. They're the only guys out there who could be in any sort of potential position to spend $35 million and take on another parks. Cedar Fair, Herschend, GAFP, and of course, SF are all obviously loaded down, so who else is there?

 

Then again, there's always the possibility of an independent start up taking over the park. $35 million wouldn't be impossible for the right people, but they'd also have to know how to run the damn thing...