Hard Rock / Freestyle Music Park Discussion Thread

[TheCoasterCritic]

I still think HRP was a strong park for its first year in existence. I think people were expecting WAY too much. Do theme parks really spring up overnight with as many rides and roller coasters as parks that have been around for years? I do fault the park for the high ticket price especially with the state of the economy. I wonder how it would have done with a free entry/pay per ride type of system.

 

I met the executives when I was there and if they dropped the ball somewhere, I don't think it was in the research department. They'd been planning and researching for years. I may be naive, but I don't think you can research MB and get all of the funding they did if that's not the right place for the park. The numbers must have supported doing the park in the first place. Unless they were assuming more national guests than they should have.

 

I think they just didn't plan well for the economic downturn with people staying in MB shorter than usual. They should have changed their strategy during the summer to bring in people and cut costs, but it might have been too late. I just wonder if we'd be having this same discussion had it opened it in a better economic climate. Maybe they would've lost some $$, but not had to close.

 

The interesting part now is that we might get the answer to what really hurt the park. If another company swoops in and makes it successful we'll know what was wrong the first time. Just my 2 cents.

[jarmor]

HRP was never strong in its first year. It reminded me of a chicken with its head cut off. I say that its hard to hear them brag about how it took 7 years to develop the park. SEVEN years and this is what came out of it! HRP had the coasters and several rides but they forgot the quality over quanity rule. Partial themed carnival rides aren't gonna fly too well when people are spending 50.00 a pop. And the park always use to chant "we are a theme park, we arent a six flags park" I dont think the economy has anything to do with it. If that were the case them ALL parks across america would have suffered.

[KFConcepts]

I think they just didn't plan well for the economic downturn ...

 

 

A feasibility study -the numbers- would account for this. I would say they did one. Numbers could've been fudged, but it would sabotage the project.

 

Those numbers are your best source for facts and level of success. The numbers can show various market penetration and how to account for it (i.e. budgets, operations, hours, etc.)

 

Many aspects of this project were way off (at least on the surface). If the economic downturn played that much of a role, Disney, Universal, Busch, Cedar Fair, Holiday World, Herschend, etc. would show similar characteristics of extreme losses for 2008.

[cfc]

And the park always use to chant "we are a theme park, we arent a six flags park" I dont think the economy has anything to do with it. If that were the case them ALL parks across america would have suffered.

 

That is an interesting point. I don't think you can pin HRP's failure on just one factor--poor planning, an unrealistic business plan, a bad location, coupled with the economic downturn, are what did the place in.

[larrygator]

That is an interesting point. I don't think you can pin HRP's failure on just one factor--poor planning, an unrealistic business plan, a bad location, coupled with the economic downturn, are what did the place in.

 

Good synopsis.

 

Initially, I did not agree with the bad location statement based on the fact that Myrtle Beach gets 12-14 million visitors a year. If all those visitors were potential theme park guests I would not pin it on bad location because once you have that many people relatively close to the park you should be able to execute a strategy to get 10% of them to the park.

 

But how many of those people are out of the theme park target audience, such as golfers who have no interest in amusement parks?

[Capitalize]

My plan if I were to buy the place would be to first off make admission free and charge per-ride. The place has plenty of bars and shopping type places, get more restaurants and stores in there... Charge per ride. It seems attractions like that flourish in the area. Think broadway on the beach but with better rides.

[cgodsey]

I'm with Joey... No way, no how Cedar Fair put in a bid for HRP for that much without it leaking somewhere.

 

I still think Blackstone is in the driver's seat on the purchase since they have backed off the Busch parks. One of Blackstone's subsidiaries is owed money from the park for work performed and I would bet the judge would easily approve the purchase.

[niiicolaaah]

I think HRP should have done more research on other parks by the ocean. Let's compare HRP to another place by the ocean with a similar tourist market, say, Wildwood. When we went to Morey's Piers earlier this year, I was amazed at how dead it was during the day. But then, after dark, the ENTIRE boardwalk and all the piers were JAM PACKED with people. Disregarding all other differences between the parks (like, say, the fact that Morey's actually has water rides and a ton of things to do), HRP did two basic things terribly wrong:

 

1. Location too far away from the beach. If you didn't know where you were going, I could see it being very easy to be in MB and NEVER see HRP. It is nowhere near the "grand strand" beach area, and not even near Boardwalk at the Beach, both of which pull in a lot of tourists. Compare that to Morey's which is right on the beach, you can't miss it if you are in Wildwood. So while Myrtle Beach itself may not be a bad location, its location in Myrtle Beach could have been better.

 

2. Price. Everyone has said this before, but who wants to pay $50 to get into a park you will be done with after 2 hours? Morey's runs on tickets, which makes it very easy for people to spend just a few hours there. If I was a regular non-coaster enthusiast family of 4 going to the beach, it would be to experience the beach, and I would then look for something for the family to do after the sun went down and you couldn't swim any more. I would be MUCH more likely to take the family to Morey's and spend $50 for the kids to ride a bunch of rides, than drive all the way from the beach to HRP and then spend $200 to ride for a few hours.

 

I don't understand why HRP did not take things like this into consideration. It seems like they were in their own little "this is awesome, we are invincible" fantasy world, and I am not surprised in the least that they failed miserably.

[Bolliger&Mabillard]

...who wants to pay $50 to get into a park you will be done with after 2 hours?

 

As sad as it is to say, Knott's still pulls it off. (Sigh)

 

^^I agree with you with the location in the location scenario. Santa Monica's pier gets way more business after dark then it would during the day. I mean that pier by itself is iconic enough to where I'm sure it does very well. Now being on the west coast I could understand if you put a $400 million park in San Dimas That might not due to well either, yet the L.A. area gets a decent amount of tourism.

[Jew]

As sad as it is to say, Knott's still pulls it off. (Sigh)

 

Camp Snoopy alone has more rides than HRP did in total.

[sccoasterfan]

I was just being nice and telling you so in the future you would know. Just in case you already didnt. Anyway cedar fair put a bid of 275 million for the park in.

 

Don't get your hopes up too much Barry! Remember they also put in a bid and bought Geauga Lake!!!!

 

Oh, and is there a link to a story or source for this?

 

This information comes from a source who works in office and was one of the ones let go last week. He was high up but to give you a hint he now works for Universal Studios. He went down and helped with HHN like a lot of other people who worked at hard rock and when they told him they were selling he got a job there. I wont give his name but he has been right about everything else in the past including the rides and the closing dates.

 

 

Rodney

It maybe just me but I dont see how someone can work for hrp go to universal studios and just help with HHN. I mean by october everything for HHN is done so...i dunno. And if he was still working at HRP as of last week how can he be 2 places at once...

 

unless he has a clone.

 

Jarmor this is Rodney from discovermyrtlebeach.com and you know who I am talking about. Everything I said on that board ends up to be true. And this guy along with 15 others who worked in park knew in may they were goign to HHN in october and work. He was still employed at HRP until two weeks ago while he was in Orlando bc he worked in office and he had asked when he started would he be able to leave and go help. Along with 15 others who did the same. Does that answer your question. He has worked with HHN for the last 6 years because he used to work at universal and moved to myrtle just to work in office at hard rock park and be a part of it.

 

 

Rodney I'm so tired of explaining everything Rogers

[Jew]

You know, HRP's management was so dumb I actually believe they would let a "high up" just take a month off to work for another theme park. But in the rest of the theme park world, there's no way a "high up" doesn't get into some serious NDA/non-compete issues if he does that.

 

Again, there's no way a publicly traded company makes a $275 million dollar offer without it being in the news.

[larrygator]

There's no way a public company that states it will continue paying a dividend and still recovering from its two most acquisitions (Geauga Lake and Paramount) will overpay for a park again.

[Bolliger&Mabillard]

I can see Cedar Fair milking the tit, buy not buying the cow. If this rumor has any truth to it, I see CF buying some rides, but leaving the park as is. If this area failed as an amusement park teice, why would a company want to touch it now?

[coasterdude5]

It would've been awesome if a group had been making a documentary documenting this whole process with the "high-up" meetings, consultations, etc. That would be funny to see.

[Sean Menefee]

I've tried to stay as a neutral lurker in this thread because I've never visited HRP, but I can't help myself anymore......

Is it just me or does SCC look more and more like Rod "I would like a liter of cola" Farva with every new avatar he posts? Outside of that, I'm just glad TPR got good footage of the park, just in case I never get a chance to visit.

[spacemtfan]

As sad as it is to say, Knott's still pulls it off. (Sigh)

 

Really? Even with the bad park operations?

[cfc]

^Please note . . .

 

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[BeemerBoy]

I found it hilarious, as I've also thought the same thing for a while now.

[spaceace12]

I seen a HRP ride on tv today for the first time....

 

I guess teens are playing a game on roller coasters on passing out, they had video of one of them playing the game on LZ. It was on Dr. Phil.

[goatdan]

I said it back when they first announced they were closing for the rest of the season, and I'll say it now -- The park ended up with no identity, and that was its main problem. The theme of music was not pulled off well at all, and quite frankly outside of Vegas like someone suggested, I don't think that it could be. Nights in White Satin is *not* a ride that is good for families. But most of their rides were kid / family rides at heart. So, you create a park that doesn't cater toward families, but then have rides that cater toward families... and you expect it to work?

 

You create a theme that no 1-13 year old is going to care about, yet you make most of the rides target their demographic? When I first saw this, I was wondering if I missed something, but nope -- that was their ultimate business plan.

 

I'm sorry, this was an apparent problem with the park from the beginning. I saw it from the pictures. Robb saw it when he visited. I've heard from others who visited that said the same thing. 'Interesting place, but it won't last long.'

 

The economy has nothing to do with it. If the economy was stronger, it still wouldn't matter if the park couldn't come up with a coherent theme, no one was going to go. And it clearly couldn't and didn't. The fact that their money was so tight that they went bankrupt within a short period after opening means they don't understand business. I looked into starting a business once, and took some classes, and they said that you should have enough money upon opening to operate for a year if you don't make a dime, just in case. Obviously, that lesson was lost here.

 

So, oddly enough, I feel kind of glad that this thing crashed and burned like it did. I love theme parks. I want more successful theme parks. But I also don't want any random person deciding that they way to make a theme park is to just put anything together and it will work. If this took seven years of planning, they were seven wasted years.

 

And the fact that the executives want to get paid nearly $1 million after the park spectacularly imploded? Amazing.

[Spideyfreak]

^ I couldn't have said it any better.

 

I was really looking forward to going to this park next year, mainly for the credits. To be honest, I don't think we will see any of major companies buying this place.

[goatdan]

I was really looking forward to going to this park next year, mainly for the credits. To be honest, I don't think we will see any of major companies buying this place.

 

With the possible exception of that Premier wheel thingie, I'm certain you'll be able to claim all of the other credits elsewhere in the future. No chain should even think about buying that place to reopen in, unless they want to spend hundreds of millions more to actually attempt to make it a destination park.

[cgodsey]

I was really looking forward to going to this park next year, mainly for the credits. To be honest, I don't think we will see any of major companies buying this place.

 

With the possible exception of that Premier wheel thingie, I'm certain you'll be able to claim all of the other credits elsewhere in the future. No chain should even think about buying that place to reopen in, unless they want to spend hundreds of millions more to actually attempt to make it a destination park.

 

I think they can turn the place around for less than 20 million in cap ex along with lowering the gate to $29.95 and nixing the parking fees. Heck, they could buy all 30 of the rides for sale at Cypress Gardens and essentially double the amount of attractions and have millions left over to pump into the park.

[thrillerman1]

goatdan said:

 

You create a theme that no 1-13 year old is going to care about, yet you make most of the rides target their demographic?

 

I was surely the odd kid out at that age as I was already listening to heavy and hard rock by 3rd grade. My older sisters would bring home the latest Black Sabbath and Led Zep records and I was thrilled! I definitely would've thought this park was cool way before I turned 13. But you may be right that times have changed. Now the kids seem to be all into "High School Musical" crap.