Six Flags Fiesta Texas (SFFT) Discussion Thread

[DBru]

Why are we acting like in-line seating is a new thing? Lol

 

https://rcdb.com/r.htm?ot=2&ml=11874

[Nrthwnd]

^ Because nobody is (not yet) equating it as a bobsled-style coaster/ride? Just a hunch.

[thedlr]

From the explanation in the video, it sounds like you will be grouped into 8 before you reach the station. A single rider line is almost a necessity.

[ytterbiumanalyst]

^ Because nobody is (not yet) equating it as a bobsled-style coaster/ride? Just a hunch.

Oh yeah, I fully expect a lot of bitching from guests who can't understand why they can't ride next to their friend/family member/SO.

[X2coasterfreak]

To me, I just don’t see why or how either of these Raptors will have trims added, why is everyone jumping to conclusions based off of ONE testing video? I can see softer wheels being switched out, but I feel like if trims were going to be added, they’d already be in place, given the meticulous engineering that goes into these coasters. Don’t you guys think RMC knows the specific forces at each specific part of the layout? Besides how would trims be implemented on such a thin track, wouldn’t it seem like it would lead to a major delay to the ride opening in order to design trims for the Raptor track (and trains) and decide where exactly to place them in the layout? I fully understand that I could be wrong about this, but it just doesn’t make sense to me.

[boldikus]

Besides how would trims be implemented on such a thin track,

The same way the chain lift and final brake run exist on that thin track. For all we know trims are already in place and are just not being used during testing. Do you really think that they haven't considered that they may need trims to slow this down? Almost every new coaster runs at full speed/with hard wheels & no trims during testing.

 

I'm willing to bet money they don't run it like that with guests.

[X2coasterfreak]

These are the brakes at the end of the Railblazer animated POV, so it is safe to assume that these would look like the trims if they were added, correct? Through all the construction photos of both of these coasters and both animations (granted I know animations must be taken with a grain of salt but I'm sticking to my guns here) there are no points with added brakes or brake slots, also shown below. Also in both the Wonder Woman and Railblazer animations both seem to maintain a speed that is relatively close to what we saw in the testing video. I'm sure it won't run quite as fast at what the IRL video looked like, but I'm willing to bet it will be damn close. Good news is we don't have much longer to find out for sure!

[chickenbowl]

These are the brakes at the end of the Railblazer animated POV, so it is safe to assume that these would look like the trims if they were added, correct? Through all the construction photos of both of these coasters and both animations (granted I know animations must be taken with a grain of salt but I'm sticking to my guns here) there are no points with added brakes or brake slots, also shown below. Also in both the Wonder Woman and Railblazer animations both seem to maintain a speed that is relatively close to what we saw in the testing video. I'm sure it won't run quite as fast at what the IRL video looked like, but I'm willing to bet it will be damn close. Good news is we don't have much longer to find out for sure!

 

 

Besides how would trims be implemented on such a thin track,

The same way the chain lift and final brake run exist on that thin track.

Correct. All brakes and chain lift features are completely built into the track and not simply installed on top. Which is the reasoning we use to confirm there's no trims.

 

For all we know trims are already in place and are just not being used during testing.

 

To reiterate: After the tons of pictures and videos we've seen of these Raptors, we can essentially confirm there's no brakes/trims anywhere in the layout but the final brake run. Any brakes use a modified track style with cut-outs (pictured above) and it would be clear to us if this existed anywhere else on the layout.

[Condor]

I think the effect of running softer vs. harder wheels on the i-box coasters has been demonstrated by now. Like a lot of coasters, RMC will probably experiment with different configurations on the raptors until they find one with enough friction to run the train at an acceptable speed. I doubt trims will even be necessary.

[DoinItForTheFame]

... I'm willing to bet money they don't run it like that with guests.

 

Same.

 

As amazing as we all know it would be I very highly doubt that it will run at that speed with guest on it.

 

But hey, who knows... Maybe Six Flags will surprise us!

[mark549]

Has RMC ever put trims on a ride (other than mid course brake - Texas Giant, Mean Streak 2.0)?

 

Changing combination of wheels, maybe, probably.

 

It's a shame the closest of these clones (to me) will not be open to the public (near the RMC factory). I hope when Mr. Grubb's kids and friends get enough rides they sell the coaster to Silverwood, or perhaps Oaks in Portland (that would be much closer ...)

 

I assume RMC will sell a lot of these.

[Nrthwnd]

^ Personally, I'm still waiting for an El Loco (orig. or custom) to come closer

to you and me. And Las Vegas Adventuredome isn't close enough, for myself.

 

But definitely, one of these would be awesome to get, instead!

[boldikus]

Correct. All brakes and chain lift features are completely built into the track and not simply installed on top. Which is the reasoning we use to assume there's no trims.

 

Fixed that for you. There is a difference between confirming and assuming. You guys haven't confirmed anything.

[DoinItForTheFame]

Correct. All brakes and chain lift features are completely built into the track and not simply installed on top. Which is the reasoning we use to assume there's no trims.

 

Fixed that for you. There is a difference between confirming and assuming. You guys haven't confirmed anything.

 

[chickenbowl]

^ wtf?

 

Correct. All brakes and chain lift features are completely built into the track and not simply installed on top. Which is the reasoning we use to assume there's no trims.

 

Fixed that for you. There is a difference between confirming and assuming. You guys haven't confirmed anything.

 

You can literally watch these videos that showing the whole layout in detail. There's clearly nowhere to even install trims

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDiv5nHDHj8

 

Maybe they'll want to control the speed some other way, but I doubt they want to replace full track sections or cut into their current track sections to add them

Edited March 12, 2018 by chickenbowl

[DoinItForTheFame]

... You can literally watch these videos that showing the whole layout in detail. There's clearly nowhere to even install trims

 

If RMC deems it necessary to add trims they can, and will find a way.

[boldikus]

Drone footage from 100 feet up that definitely does not show every inch of track is not confirmation that there won't be trims, sorry. Until this thing runs with people on it and no trims anywhere or Fred Grubb himself comes out and say they won't install trims, you haven't confirmed that its going to run without trims.

 

I mean hey maybe I'm wrong and they won't, my initial post was that they would do *something* to slow it down (harder wheels, trims, etc) and you guys got on this whole "there won't be trims" thing because the enthusiast in you wants it to run that fast. Hopefully it does, it looks like it'll be amazing. But to assume a few trims are outside the realm of possibility based on photos and drone footage is laughable.

 

Also protip: I'd ease up on the ALTair footage around here, the admins don't like it.

[chickenbowl]

Drone footage from 100 feet up that definitely does not show every inch of track is not confirmation that there won't be trims, sorry.

 

You clearly didn't watch the first video in full quality. It's not a long coaster, it's easy to inspect that they didn't leave any space for trim brake installation. The cut-outs for the brakes are very clear (giant holes on the top of the track.)

 

If RMC deems it necessary to add trims they can, and will find a way.

 

Well obviously, but I'm just pointing out that there's no easy way to add them right now without major modification. I doubt they want to replace full track sections or cut into their current track sections to add them. There's easier and cheaper solutions to manage speed.

[Comeagain?]

Considering the entire ride is built by cutting into steal plate, doing so to add trims isn't a particularly daunting or difficult task. Although the engineering teams put a lot of thought and effort into what the final product will be, and I'm sure that they know whether they'll need any kind of speed control or not.

[chickenbowl]

Considering the entire ride is built by cutting into steal plate, doing so to add trims isn't a particularly daunting or difficult task. Although the engineering teams put a lot of thought and effort into what the final product will be, and I'm sure that they know whether they'll need any kind of speed control or not.

 

Perhaps it wouldn't be so hard to do cutting/welding/installing, but consider the stress limitations of the Raptor track. The tiny modified IBox design retains its structural strength through the carefully engineered, solid body of the track - Adding holes along high force areas may very well lower the limits of stress it can sustain. Watching that video, you can visibly see how much force the train exerts on that track. There would certainly need to be careful thought and planning if they were to modify a piece of track during a high stress area of the layout. I don't think it's as easy as it sounds.

 

It's clear that they weren't prepared to add any trims or they would've include possible attachment locations in the layout (Think Silver Bullet after the cobra roll). I'm sure it's possible to add one now, but it would take a lot of time and money. We've never seen RMC go with a trim before, I doubt we will see it now.

 

EDIT: But who knows, I'm just approaching this discussion through my engineering lens. For all we know this whole discussion is moot and the speed is right where they want it be for this phase of testing anyway?

[CedarFanboy]

I don't think trims will be necessary to be honest. The test run is only a couple seconds longer than what's shown in the animation. Guess we'll wait and find out for sure.

[Mr Stratosphere]

The discussions about trims cracks me up, this is a prototype ride and tweaks and adjustments are bound to happen. I just can't wait to ride!!

At the end of the day, during testing, especially initial test runs, they put the wheels that will have the least resistance to ensure the train will make it around the track. Many many many modifications will be made until its safe for us to ride.

[Invertalon]

The tiny modified IBox design retains its structural strength through the carefully engineered, solid body of the track - Adding holes along high force areas may very well lower the limits of stress it can sustain. Watching that video, you can visibly see how much force the train exerts on that track. There would certainly need to be careful thought and planning if they were to modify a piece of track during a high stress area of the layout. I don't think it's as easy as it sounds.

 

It actually is as easy as it sounds. Holes would do very little in this case, as most of the strength comes from the moment of inertia (height or "depth" to resist bending). While yeah, putting too large of a hole may do something, it likely is a moot point as long as you leave enough web thickness near the edges and whatnot. Putting a trim would be not be any issue for them to do, if need be.

 

Having done a bit of structural design engineering myself, you would be surprised at how much you could hack something like that and maintain most of it's strength (within reason). I bet you if they needed to, they could load that track with holes top and bottom.. But it would just waste time/money to cut the material that way and wouldn't save the customer any money, as the scrap would be useless to RMC. So no real point in doing so.

 

Doesn't matter how small the track is, it's carrying a much lighter load than say a full Intamin/B&M train. That is why they can make it so small.

 

They know what they are doing (RMC), and I am sure they have thought about the potential for trims if need be and how they would add them.

[chickenbowl]

It actually is as easy as it sounds. Holes would do very little in this case, as most of the strength comes from the moment of inertia (height or "depth" to resist bending). While yeah, putting too large of a hole may do something, it likely is a moot point as long as you leave enough web thickness near the edges and whatnot. Putting a trim would be not be any issue for them to do, if need be.

 

Having done a bit of structural design engineering myself, you would be surprised at how much you could hack something like that and maintain most of it's strength (within reason). I bet you if they needed to, they could load that track with holes top and bottom.. But it would just waste time/money to cut the material that way and wouldn't save the customer any money, as the scrap would be useless to RMC. So no real point in doing so.

 

Doesn't matter how small the track is, it's carrying a much lighter load than say a full Intamin/B&M train. That is why they can make it so small.

 

They know what they are doing (RMC), and I am sure they have thought about the potential for trims if need be and how they would add them.

 

I would disagree with your assessment. From what we know of the braking assemblies, they look quite intrusive to the track and require holes on both the top and sides of the rail. It seems unlikely to me that you could just put these types of holes in any old place along the track. Maybe it's possible, but I really don't think it's that simple.

 

[Invertalon]

I'll have to locate a picture close up of the brake design tomorrow. Interested in why the access inside the track unless hydraulic/pneumatic. I can't tell from that pic at least. But really, even if they had to torch that material out I don't expect any significant strength reduction in the track, within reason.

 

Honestly, was just thinking there needs to be the fins that can be welded to a bracket on top of the track. Have not seen any good detailed images of the brake assemblies, I was assuming they were like, say, Intamin's design.

 

But my main point was as far as the hole thing goes, side or top, it won't matter much. Gaps/holes can be fine, just look at Intamin's old school box or triangle track. Or a little bit of a different example, the updated arrow 4D train that look like swiss cheese now to reduce weight while maintaining design properties.

 

Mass doesn't dictate strength, material properties and careful design/engineering do.