Jumboshrmp Posted September 3, 2008 Share Posted September 3, 2008 This section is about coaster models too, so I thought I share this one that I just made! Some of you may be familiar with coasterdynamix, the realistic coaster modeling system used to build Diamondback at Kings Island. I made a realistic compact inverted coaster using two scorpion kits and a 4 ft lift bought separately from Coasterdynamix. I'm going to post the pictures of my progress building the model, almost like a trip report. Here's the video: Oh yeah, I'm so excited! My work space. The end of the first night. I'm so proud of this Immelman End of the second night. The final layout I love the first drop Immelman POV!!!!! Helix If anyone has any questions about these models I'll be happy to answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KPWoCkAxX Posted September 3, 2008 Share Posted September 3, 2008 That's Toatally Insane! It's really fast! I want too ride it! Good job with the kit! Hope to see more from you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlmereStars Posted September 3, 2008 Share Posted September 3, 2008 thats really cool! I like the lay out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hyyyper Posted September 3, 2008 Share Posted September 3, 2008 What are the bright yellow/white supports? They look like electrical tubes, if they are, what size is that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steffen_Dk Posted September 3, 2008 Share Posted September 3, 2008 This one would be cool to recreate in NL. I'm not too sure about the first drop though - I think it looks a little under banked, but the rest is just lovely! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBannedKid Posted September 3, 2008 Share Posted September 3, 2008 What are the bright yellow/white supports?They look like electrical tubes, if they are, what size is that? 1/2 CPVC Pipe...Schedule 80 I think. It's hard to come by in some places though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumboshrmp Posted September 3, 2008 Author Share Posted September 3, 2008 What are the bright yellow/white supports?They look like electrical tubes, if they are, what size is that? 1/2 CPVC Pipe...Schedule 80 I think. It's hard to come by in some places though. You must be coastergeekrtc on the CoasterDynamix forums.... That avatar gives me nightmares.... I wrote down that size when I went to the hardware store, and gave the piece of paper to the guy at the counter. He came back with something much bigger than I was looking for. I just handed him one of the actual supports and told him I wanted that size. When I picked out a certain kind he started asking me questions like "Are you going to be using these with hot water?", and "Will you be installing this yourself?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Posted September 3, 2008 Share Posted September 3, 2008 nice job! cool layout for what you got. Its just very fast. In my opinion, these things are just not enjoyable to watch, the are more enjoyable to look at. Makes for a cool a model , thats about all. It would be cool if a wheel chassis or two were motorized with controllable speeds so you can actually see the train maneuver around. Nice work though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumboshrmp Posted September 3, 2008 Author Share Posted September 3, 2008 nice job! cool layout for what you got. Its just very fast. In my opinion, these things are just not enjoyable to watch, the are more enjoyable to look at. Makes for a cool a model , thats about all. It would be cool if a wheel chassis or two were motorized with controllable speeds so you can actually see the train maneuver around. Nice work though! This is a very common comment about these models. Yes, the trains go very fast, but in video, it's seems much faster. Not only that, but the more compact the layout is, the faster it appears. I have an extremely compact layout with a huge drop. The diamondback model is very spread out, and doesn't look as fast, but it's actually going faster because of the size of the first drop. I'm not saying they don't go really fast, of course they do. But after a while it's really cool to see several flips in a row at high speed. To really enjoy the beauty of the maneuvers you can just push the train along with your hand. This is tons of fun actually. Part of what is so cool about these models is that they are gravity powered. There are so many parts on these trains (there are 42 wheels), and the parts are so small that making any sort of motor would be very difficult. If there was a motor, then gravity powered operation would not be possible, because the wheels cannot be attached to anything. The trains are moving at just about the same speed the actual coaster would be moving. But these trains are small, and don't weigh several tons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hyyyper Posted September 3, 2008 Share Posted September 3, 2008 I'm not a physicis expert (yet) but making the trains heavier should make their movement more realistic. However, that also mean the supports have to be of realistic strenght, which they are not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumboshrmp Posted September 3, 2008 Author Share Posted September 3, 2008 I'm not a physicis expert (yet) but making the trains heavier should make their movement more realistic. However, that also mean the supports have to be of realistic strenght, which they are not. The longer the trains are on these models, the faster they go. The difference between 7 and 8 cars on the train is actually very noticeable. You don't want it to go slow. It's just not as exciting. You can't scale gravity, and if the train is going slow enough for you to be able to focus on it, don't plan on it making it over the next inversion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hyyyper Posted September 3, 2008 Share Posted September 3, 2008 It has nothing to do with lenght. If the trains are twice the weight they are now, they might have less speed on the bottom of a drop, but they've got enough momentum to carry it over the next hill. Result: realistic speed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumboshrmp Posted September 3, 2008 Author Share Posted September 3, 2008 It has nothing to do with lenght. If the trains are twice the weight they are now, they might have less speed on the bottom of a drop, but they've got enough momentum to carry it over the next hill.Result: realistic speed it just doesn't work like that. And how do you define realistic speed? You expect a model coaster to drop 3 feet and take the same amount of time as a real coaster dropping 160 feet? If the trains went slower, they would not make it around. The reason I brought up length is because a longer train obviously weighs more. And a heavier train will just go faster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Posted September 3, 2008 Share Posted September 3, 2008 We'll never get the real speed due to the scale. it would have to be totally manipulated in some way to slow it down and speed it up in certain areas, then it wouldnt really be rolling like a coaster. lol. it would strictly be a visual thing. you have to admit these toys are legit for what they are. very cool stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vekoma Fan Boy Posted September 3, 2008 Share Posted September 3, 2008 I'm not a physicis expert (yet) but making the trains heavier should make their movement more realistic. However, that also mean the supports have to be of realistic strenght, which they are not. Also, if they went really all out and made the trains a realistic weight (1/48th the real weight of the train) which would give completely prototypical speeds, an eight car train (assuming a full scale 8 car train weighs 5 tons [please correct me if I'm wrong, which I probably am XD]) would weigh about 208 pounds, or 26 pounds per car. Hardly practical (or possible!). It has nothing to do with lenght. If the trains are twice the weight they are now, they might have less speed on the bottom of a drop, but they've got enough momentum to carry it over the next hill.Result: realistic speed it just doesn't work like that. And how do you define realistic speed? You expect a model coaster to drop 3 and take the same amount of time as a real coaster dropping 160 feet? If the trains went slower, they would not make it around. The reason I brought up length is because a longer train obviously weighs more. And a heavier train will just go faster. Umm, dude it has nothing to do with speed, but inertia. While a heavier train may go slightly slower, its greater mass will compensate for the slower speed compared to a lighter train. And vice versa. For the most part anyway. It doesn't necessarily work at high/low extremes. Also, one thing to think about is that these models are NOT accurate in 2 crucial ways. Those being mass and friction. A PERFECT model of a coaster, with totally to-scale track length, lift height, train mass, and friction between train and track will the same amount of time to traverse the course. (In scale minutes and seconds that is) That being, if said perfect model was built in O scale (1:48) the model would take 1/48th the amount of time to traverse its course than the real one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fallen Heretic Posted September 3, 2008 Share Posted September 3, 2008 Thats a pretty cool layout, I like it. Ah, the Coasterdynamix 'too fast' thing. Well having seen a couple of models run in real life, it can say that a side effect of the video compression, the way it blurs and the lense angle makes the train look MUCH faster on video than in real life. Its the same with the Comet model. Now the realistic speed thing. The only way I think you could possibly get a train which looks like it also has scaled down gravity is to use a flywheel system, but you cant fit that in a train this size and even if you could, it would lose too much energy. A heavier train will NOT go slower as Gravity pulls all near earth objects with (as near as makes no difference) the same acceleration. Thats the same acceleration, not the same force, the force gravity exerts is different for object of different mass. So a lighter and heavier train will be going pretty much the same speed down the first drop. The heavier train will have more momentum at that speed, and so require a greater force (friction) to slow down. So im pretty sure the quicker course time for heavier trains is due to a relationship between momentum vs friction with increasing mass. OR...it could just be that the heavier train is less affected by imperfections in the rails or non-flush rail joint. i suspect the latter in most cases, actually. EDIT: FYI, even if you did build a perfect scale replica, right down the the mass and friction effects all scaled perfectly, it would STILL not run at slower 'scale speeds' as you cant scale the force of Gravity which drives the whole thing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Rimer Posted September 4, 2008 Share Posted September 4, 2008 I'm not a physicis expert (yet) but making the trains heavier should make their movement more realistic. However, that also mean the supports have to be of realistic strenght, which they are not. As mentioned above, making the trains heavier will not slow the trains down AT ALL. If anything, it will speed them up slightly. If anyone has seen the Diamondback model, I would ask them to comment on the "too fast" debate. That model, while still fast, does not look as fast because it is spread out. Honestly, unless you have seen a CD model in person, it is nearly impossible to understand the visual impact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcjaco Posted September 4, 2008 Share Posted September 4, 2008 ^ I ws going to say that same thing. Adding weight should just add to the speed. I'm not sure there's anyway to slow down CD trains, unless you over exagerate, or should I say under exagerate, the drops, hills, and elements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Rimer Posted September 4, 2008 Share Posted September 4, 2008 The key to the whole system is the efficiency of the trains. The ability to traverse 80' of track from a single 4' hill cannot be found anywhere else at this scale. In order for the trains to run with such efficiency, they must be very free wheeling. This means they accelerate quickly, which gives the impression that they run "faster" than a real coaster. In reality, they are no faster than a real ride over a given length. If you dropped a CD train from a 100' hill it would take about the same time to reach the ground as a real one (not quite, but pretty close). You can scale down the model, but you cannot scale down the effect of gravity on an object. A marble drops at the same rate as a bowling ball. I am curious why you think adding more weight would slow it down?????? I have heard this before and I can't understand this reasoning. It goes against all laws of basic physics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cinciDAWGS12 Posted September 5, 2008 Share Posted September 5, 2008 Dude this is great work! I love the layout and that helix is awesome! It really hits those breaks hard though Great job! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumboshrmp Posted September 5, 2008 Author Share Posted September 5, 2008 Dude this is great work! I love the layout and that helix is awesome! It really hits those breaks hard though Great job! I like the helix too! I realize that it hits the brakes hard, there's plenty of energy left to go for quite a while too. I still have three track segments left from the two kits... that's 12 feet. But if I expanded it, I would have to take out the helix... no way! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cinciDAWGS12 Posted September 5, 2008 Share Posted September 5, 2008 ^Or you could just add another helix that goes the other way...Just a thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumboshrmp Posted September 6, 2008 Author Share Posted September 6, 2008 ^Or you could just add another helix that goes the other way...Just a thought. The helix takes a ton of energy away from the train though, it's a very gradual constant upwards climb where the train has a little bit of lateral force on the guide wheels (which slows it down a lot). I don't think it would work if I added any other elements to it. But I certainly won't keep this layout forever. I'm probably going to change everything after the imelman in a few weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalepi_Konei Posted September 6, 2008 Share Posted September 6, 2008 This has got to be one of the coolest layouts in CoasterDynamix I've seen. Heres a question for you: What do they run on? i.e. batteries, plug it in to the wall....etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBannedKid Posted September 6, 2008 Share Posted September 6, 2008 It's a small motor that plugs into the wall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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