Worlds of Fun (WOF) Discussion Thread

[Jaykethekid]

I know that B&M rides are insanely expensive, but if you do that math, they aren't to far off of affording a decent sized coaster. I know that a smaller park gets about 1 million dollars each year to invest into rides. Seeing that worlds of fun is 2 to 3 times larger than that park, they would be able to spend maybe 2 million a year on new rides or attractions. So it has pretty much been seven years since a new coaster, 2x7=14 that is 14 million dollars. Subtract the cost of Steelhawk which couldnt be more than 500,000 for just installment and utilities. And the oceans of fun additions since Prowler opened total around 3 million dollars. That leaves 11.5 million dollars for a new investment in the future. Could they just be saving up for something big in the next 2-4 years?

[PhantomPoster32]

If only it was that simple. The problem is, WOF has had to do a lot of infrastructure work here recently.

- Replacing piping (water)

- Renovation of Viking Voyager and Lake area

- Retrack of Timber Wolf

- Complete rebuild of Thunderhawk

- Complete rebuild of Bamboozler

- Upgrade of Scrambler lighting

- Parking lot at OOF

and the list goes on.

 

I imagine that WOF also took over the remaining costs of paying off WindseekerHawk from KBF

[madsencarson]

I know that B&M rides are insanely expensive, but if you do that math, they aren't to far off of affording a decent sized coaster. I know that a smaller park gets about 1 million dollars each year to invest into rides. Seeing that worlds of fun is 2 to 3 times larger than that park, they would be able to spend maybe 2 million a year on new rides or attractions. So it has pretty much been seven years since a new coaster, 2x7=14 that is 14 million dollars. Subtract the cost of Steelhawk which couldnt be more than 500,000 for just installment and utilities. And the oceans of fun additions since Prowler opened total around 3 million dollars. That leaves 11.5 million dollars for a new investment in the future. Could they just be saving up for something big in the next 2-4 years?

 

 

I'm pretty positive WoF is not 2 to 3 times larger than Valleyfair, if that is what you're saying.

[PhantomPoster32]

I know that B&M rides are insanely expensive, but if you do that math, they aren't to far off of affording a decent sized coaster. I know that a smaller park gets about 1 million dollars each year to invest into rides. Seeing that worlds of fun is 2 to 3 times larger than that park, they would be able to spend maybe 2 million a year on new rides or attractions. So it has pretty much been seven years since a new coaster, 2x7=14 that is 14 million dollars. Subtract the cost of Steelhawk which couldnt be more than 500,000 for just installment and utilities. And the oceans of fun additions since Prowler opened total around 3 million dollars. That leaves 11.5 million dollars for a new investment in the future. Could they just be saving up for something big in the next 2-4 years?

 

 

I'm pretty positive WoF is not 2 to 3 times larger than Valleyfair, if that is what you're saying.

 

Depends on what he means by larger.

Land size? Definitely

Attendance? Maybe

Revenue? Probably

Value? DEFINITELY

[madsencarson]

I highly doubt WoF brings in more attendance than Valleyfair. VF's attendance has been rising steadily year after year. We have been getting pretty solid additions every year too. (Route 76, Waterpark Expansion, etc.)

[PhantomPoster32]

Congrats?

 

WOF does most of their attendance during HAUNT

[Vonni]

It really is about time CF start reinvesting into their smaller parks (you know, the ones they forgot about once they got their hands on the Paramount Parks). WOF,VF, and MiA are all OVERDUE for a nice Coaster. VF deserves an Invert. MiA deserves a Mega or Hyper. WOF deserves a Launch (preferably full circuit), or Wingrider. I know there is more involved than just saying "ok, here ya go!", but it really is frustrating to see nothing significant come to these parks year after year, while others get awesome Coasters. SF is no better at that honestly, but I'm just talking about CF right now.

[WOFanatic]

I know that B&M rides are insanely expensive, but if you do that math, they aren't to far off of affording a decent sized coaster. I know that a smaller park gets about 1 million dollars each year to invest into rides. Seeing that worlds of fun is 2 to 3 times larger than that park, they would be able to spend maybe 2 million a year on new rides or attractions. So it has pretty much been seven years since a new coaster, 2x7=14 that is 14 million dollars. Subtract the cost of Steelhawk which couldnt be more than 500,000 for just installment and utilities. And the oceans of fun additions since Prowler opened total around 3 million dollars. That leaves 11.5 million dollars for a new investment in the future. Could they just be saving up for something big in the next 2-4 years?

WoF spent $10 million on OOF in 2013. Steelhawk cost WOF $250K.

[baileybrucem]

I know that B&M rides are insanely expensive, but if you do that math, they aren't to far off of affording a decent sized coaster. I know that a smaller park gets about 1 million dollars each year to invest into rides. Seeing that worlds of fun is 2 to 3 times larger than that park, they would be able to spend maybe 2 million a year on new rides or attractions. So it has pretty much been seven years since a new coaster, 2x7=14 that is 14 million dollars. Subtract the cost of Steelhawk which couldnt be more than 500,000 for just installment and utilities. And the oceans of fun additions since Prowler opened total around 3 million dollars. That leaves 11.5 million dollars for a new investment in the future. Could they just be saving up for something big in the next 2-4 years?

WoF spent $10 million on OOF in 2013. Steelhawk cost WOF $250K.

 

In the grand scheme of things, let's just hope MiA gets something. Then there will be hope!

[CedarFair1]

It really is about time CF start reinvesting into their smaller parks (you know, the ones they forgot about once they got their hands on the Paramount Parks). WOF,VF, and MiA are all OVERDUE for a nice Coaster. VF deserves an Invert. MiA deserves a Mega or Hyper. WOF deserves a Launch (preferably full circuit), or Wingrider. I know there is more involved than just saying "ok, here ya go!", but it really is frustrating to see nothing significant come to these parks year after year, while others get awesome Coasters. SF is no better at that honestly, but I'm just talking about CF right now.

 

 

As a stockholder none of those parks are getting 25 million dollar coasters ANYTIME soon and by soon I mean like 5 years or more! As stated on the call they only put in expensive investments that pay ROI (return on investment). They said the next park other then their big parks to get the gold treatment is California's Great America.

[Woodie Warrior]

It seems like Valleyfair and WOF are going to be the next smaller CF parks to get a major ride. If you look at both parks' coaster lineup, they're pretty much near-identical:

 

WOF--------------------------------------------------------------Valleyfair

Boomerang.................looping cooasters................Corkscrew

Cosmic Coaster.............kiddie coasters............Cosmic Coaster

Mamba.......................Morgan hypers..................Wild Thing

Patriot...........................inverts.....................Steel Venom

Prowler.......................GCI woodies.....................Renegade

Spinning Dragons...........wild mouse-type................Mad Mouse

Timber Wolf...............classic woodies..................High Roller

(Valleyfair also has Excalibur)

 

Both parks could use a launched, full circuit coaster, preferably a wing coaster. Both already have inverts (VF's is an Intamin shuttle, but still). VF does seem more likely to get one first, though.

[PhantomPoster32]

It really is about time CF start reinvesting into their smaller parks (you know, the ones they forgot about once they got their hands on the Paramount Parks). WOF,VF, and MiA are all OVERDUE for a nice Coaster. VF deserves an Invert. MiA deserves a Mega or Hyper. WOF deserves a Launch (preferably full circuit), or Wingrider. I know there is more involved than just saying "ok, here ya go!", but it really is frustrating to see nothing significant come to these parks year after year, while others get awesome Coasters. SF is no better at that honestly, but I'm just talking about CF right now.

 

 

As a stockholder none of those parks are getting 25 million dollar coasters ANYTIME soon and by soon I mean like 5 years or more! As stated on the call they only put in expensive investments that pay ROI (return on investment). They said the next park other then their big parks to get the gold treatment is California's Great America.

 

I don't see anywhere in his post where he said $25 million coasters.

With that being said $14-18 million are not out of the question and that chunk of change can buy a decent sized coaster

[Vonni]

It really is about time CF start reinvesting into their smaller parks (you know, the ones they forgot about once they got their hands on the Paramount Parks). WOF,VF, and MiA are all OVERDUE for a nice Coaster. VF deserves an Invert. MiA deserves a Mega or Hyper. WOF deserves a Launch (preferably full circuit), or Wingrider. I know there is more involved than just saying "ok, here ya go!", but it really is frustrating to see nothing significant come to these parks year after year, while others get awesome Coasters. SF is no better at that honestly, but I'm just talking about CF right now.

 

 

As a stockholder none of those parks are getting 25 million dollar coasters ANYTIME soon and by soon I mean like 5 years or more! As stated on the call they only put in expensive investments that pay ROI (return on investment). They said the next park other then their big parks to get the gold treatment is California's Great America.

 

I don't see anywhere in his post where he said $25 million coasters.

With that being said $14-18 million are not out of the question and that chunk of change can buy a decent sized coaster

 

 

Thank you! That is exactly what I meant. I don't expect a $20 million plus price tag.

[CedarFair1]

It really is about time CF start reinvesting into their smaller parks (you know, the ones they forgot about once they got their hands on the Paramount Parks). WOF,VF, and MiA are all OVERDUE for a nice Coaster. VF deserves an Invert. MiA deserves a Mega or Hyper. WOF deserves a Launch (preferably full circuit), or Wingrider. I know there is more involved than just saying "ok, here ya go!", but it really is frustrating to see nothing significant come to these parks year after year, while others get awesome Coasters. SF is no better at that honestly, but I'm just talking about CF right now.

 

 

As a stockholder none of those parks are getting 25 million dollar coasters ANYTIME soon and by soon I mean like 5 years or more! As stated on the call they only put in expensive investments that pay ROI (return on investment). They said the next park other then their big parks to get the gold treatment is California's Great America.

 

I don't see anywhere in his post where he said $25 million coasters.

With that being said $14-18 million are not out of the question and that chunk of change can buy a decent sized coaster

 

 

Thank you! That is exactly what I meant. I don't expect a $20 million plus price tag.

 

Yes but Cedar Fairs money is currently being invested int he top 3 parks on a regular basis and now CGA is getting a massive investment. They have no moneyyyyy lol

[PhantomPoster32]

You realize that CF doesn't operate the same way as SF with regards to how capital expenditures are handled, right? Money for a coaster at one park doesn't come from a different park. Each park has a budget that is dependent on its performance over a set period of time. The major additions to certain parks that we've seen here lately was financed through the selling of certain assets.

[madsencarson]

Carowinds, CGA, and Valleyfair were all stated by CF to receive significant expansion. Carowinds has obviously already received theirs, and if the permit to get the Army Corps of Engineers into Valleyfair to fill wetlands, redo roads, build levees, etc. is verified, Valleyfair should be receiving significant expansion in the next few years. I have hope for the smaller parks. Maybe, just maybe one day, all parks will be treated equally.

[madsencarson]

Carowinds, CGA, and Valleyfair were all stated by CF to receive significant expansion. Carowinds has obviously already received theirs, and if the permit to get the Army Corps of Engineers into Valleyfair to fill wetlands, redo roads, build levees, etc. is verified, Valleyfair should be receiving significant expansion in the next few years. I have hope for the smaller parks. Maybe, just maybe one day, all parks will be treated equally.

[CedarFair1]

Nah, see I'm a Dip and Dots guy and what I say is fact. How dare you disrespect a Dip and Dots guy! A curse of a thousand years without coasters for your home park!!!!

[DILinator]

It really is about time CF start reinvesting into their smaller parks (you know, the ones they forgot about once they got their hands on the Paramount Parks). WOF,VF, and MiA are all OVERDUE for a nice Coaster. VF deserves an Invert. MiA deserves a Mega or Hyper. WOF deserves a Launch (preferably full circuit), or Wingrider.

 

 

However, in all liklihood, a B&M Invert or Wingrider seems unlikely, given their price tags these days. I found it interesting that Patriot cost WoF $14 mil, and eight years later Banshee cost Kings Island $24 mil. Granted, Banshee is definitely a bigger, and more costly coaster even without inflation figured in. Thunderbird was $22 mil. Now, X-Flight was only in the $12-$15 mil range, and that was only put in a few years ago. So it's plausible to think a smaller, more basic Wing Coaster built on flat terrain could work at WoF. Still, I think the idea of a launched coaster for WoF is a good one, just you're more likely to get something like Wicked at Lagoon, as opposed to Thunderbird.

 

In the grand scheme of things, let's just hope MiA gets something. Then there will be hope!

 

 

As a stockholder none of those parks are getting 25 million dollar coasters ANYTIME soon and by soon I mean like 5 years or more! As stated on the call they only put in expensive investments that pay ROI (return on investment). They said the next park other then their big parks to get the gold treatment is California's Great America.

 

Question: As a stockholder, do you guys get detailed, itemized reports on all expenditures and profits? Just curious.

 

I too, doubt an investment of that size ($20 - $25 mil) is forthcoming at any of their smaller parks, just for the record...

 

Regarding California's Great America, I find that interesting, considering they've spent most of their ownership of the park cutting it back, and they themselves acknowledge in last year's report that it's pretty much maxed out for space to expand. Makes one wonder if they have some land aquisition plan up their sleeve, or are going to 'shuffle the deck' inside the park property a bit... FWIW, I actually could see a coaster like Fury, or at least a hyper, going in there next, since there is definitely room for a coaster with a skinny, but long, footprint.

[CedarFair1]

you yourself can go look that information up on their website but yes the conference calls to provide us with some pretty detailed stuff and they tell us how much they will spend each season on new rides

[Jaykethekid]

I was comparing worlds of fun to frontier city. I apologize if my math was off as most numbers were estimates.

[KI Kidd]

According to this release it looks like there are major coaster plans for each year through 2020, and "Coaster Re-Work" projects through 2018 (I am assuming similar to the Mantis/Rougarou transformation), Mid-size thrill rides for 2016-2017 and 2019-2020, and interactive dark rides through 2020. All of this is of course subject to change but it offers an interesting insight into what the future may look like.

[dorney1999]

It really is about time CF start reinvesting into their smaller parks (you know, the ones they forgot about once they got their hands on the Paramount Parks). WOF,VF, and MiA are all OVERDUE for a nice Coaster. VF deserves an Invert. MiA deserves a Mega or Hyper. WOF deserves a Launch (preferably full circuit), or Wingrider. I know there is more involved than just saying "ok, here ya go!", but it really is frustrating to see nothing significant come to these parks year after year, while others get awesome Coasters. SF is no better at that honestly, but I'm just talking about CF right now.

you forgot about dorney...

[WOFanatic]

I'm not gonna complain too heavily about WoF. It could be much, much worse. No matter if you love or hate Steelhawk, it was a fantastic addition to the park. WoF is the only smaller park that has a Windseeker. And no matter what you think of the ride, you have to admit that the view from the top is jaw dropping. We also got an awesome water slide complex in 2013, making OoF one of, if not the best water park in the CF chain. Let's not forget that WoF had almost ten years of constant growth in the 2000's. 4 coasters in 10 years is quite the accomplishment. And let's not forget that Prowler was added on the 11th year. I do think we need something new but I'd much prefer a dark ride rather than a coaster at this point.

 

Let's also not forget how much money CF has put into our Halloween event. Our Halloween event is one of the top 5 largest in the chain (attendance-wise) and CF has given us some love for it. Not every park has the ability to build completely new buildings for their mazes. Im proud we don't have a "bumper car maze" or a "drywall in a field" maze. We are adding our biggest one yet this year: Blood on the Bayou.

[hammerstark]

If you look at the investor slideshow, Worlds of Fun brings in almost as much revenue as Carowinds...I wonder what is holding WoF back in terms of a big coaster expansion like Carowinds did..?