Queue Management

[LeeJeano]

Hi All,

 

After spending far too many hours stood around in queues or paying excessive amounts for 'get me to the front' tickets I was wondering two things :

 

Which theme park you felt had the best queue management and why?

 

Who has the worst queue management?

 

Thanks

[southpuddle]

Disney - it's free for everyone, they don't give out too many, and because of their merge points, nobody is blatantly "stealing" your seat.

 

The worst is Six Flags. LoQ/Flashpass is horrible. First off, you have to pay for it, which is BS, and I'm not sure if they will actually stop selling them as long as there are still people willing to buy them. The way they merge at some rides is God-awful, and sometimes even the rides under one-train operation are STILL using Flashpass, making a standby line with only 50 people in it a half hour long.

 

I'm really not a big fan of any type of Fastpass system, however. I feel that the best way to queue people up is to just have everyone use standby and focus more on putting everyone through as quickly as possible, which is why I love Cedar Point.

[hyyyper]

I prefer Universal's Express Pass, it's expensive, but you get what you pay for.

The problem with the Disney system is that it's free, and too many people use it, and basically it isn't getting you in a ride faster.

[YoshiFan]

Best - Disney because it is free

 

Worst - every other system where they charge, especially Six Flags because they allow way too many people to use the system at once. At Scream Machine on Tuesday, normally flashpass people get car 6, 4 seats out of 28 on the train. There were so many flashpss users that they were giving flashpass people almost the entire train.

 

I don't want to get into the whole argument about Flashpass again like I did earlier this year in that other thread especially since it seemed like I was the only one who thinks they are one of the worst things to happen to parks in recent years so that's all I am going to say about it.

[arrowfanman]

Disney - it's free for everyone, they don't give out too many, and because of their merge points, nobody is blatantly "stealing" your seat.

 

The worst is Six Flags. LoQ/Flashpass is horrible. First off, you have to pay for it, which is BS, and I'm not sure if they will actually stop selling them as long as there are still people willing to buy them. The way they merge at some rides is God-awful, and sometimes even the rides under one-train operation are STILL using Flashpass, making a standby line with only 50 people in it a half hour long.

 

I'm really not a big fan of any type of Fastpass system, however. I feel that the best way to queue people up is to just have everyone use standby and focus more on putting everyone through as quickly as possible, which is why I love Cedar Point.

 

 

 

 

 

If consumers are willing to pay for a service, be mad at them, not at the park--because if queue management systems were really BS, they wouldn't sell. But they do, more and more every day. They way I see it, you'd have to be stupid (*cough* Cedar Fair *cough*) to not offer a service that clearly is both profitable and offers the consumer more choice in the experience they want to have.

 

As a matter of fact even Disney is catching onto this, as they've recently filed a patent for a new FastPass that will give priority to guests staying on-property, and even let hotel guests choose rides days in advance, making even the standard FastPass somewhat obselete.

 

As the Joker said, "If you're good at something, never do it for free."

 

 

 

I recently purchased a Gold Q-Bot at SFGAd and was able to complete the entire park in 3 hours. That's amazing. We're talking a day with 90 minute waits. I couldn't be more in love with the system. I prefer it to Disney's FastPass, which is both limited and fragments your day. The Q-Bot lets you go to a park at your own pace, enjoy rides as you want to enjoy them, without having to park hop and run across parks to FastPass different rides.

 

 

-Jahan

[Dino_Martini]

After experiencing 'Fast Pass' I think its pretty good system. A lot of the time if the line was short enough, we would hop in line and grab a fast pass. Space Mountain in the morning, 5 minutes wait, grab a fast past, jump in the stand by line.

 

Its a good system, and its on all the rides that usually have long lines. Fast Pass for Indiana Jones is a must. They dont give out too many, its free. It was always always worth it to use Fast Pass (for us at least) and the Fast Pass line was never long.

[p4ul]

Alton towers has to be the worst. I went only last week and they sell far to many of them.

 

Also they let anyone the has them straight to the front, which makes a 20min Q a 45min Q.

The main problem is there's no rule to stop anyone from stepping off the ride and using the pass again straight away on the same ride

[AmyUD06]

They way I see it, you'd have to be stupid (*cough* Cedar Fair *cough*) to not offer a service that clearly is both profitable and offers the consumer more choice in the experience they want to have.

 

Cedar Fair doesn't need them. Even at their highest profile park, lines rarely exceeed 30 minutes except for their new "big thing" attraction.

 

Efficient general operations + motivated employees > pay-to-play system.

[TPDave]

^ But why wait 30 minutes if you can pay a little extra and wait 10? It means you're out of the park faster, and after KD that is a seriously attractive proposition to me!!

 

Worst - every other system where they charge, especially Six Flags because they allow way too many people to use the system at once. At Scream Machine on Tuesday, normally flashpass people get car 6, 4 seats out of 28 on the train. There were so many flashpss users that they were giving flashpass people almost the entire train.

 

I've just got back from the (totally awesome) East Coast trip and I would say it owes some of it's success to paid fast pass systems. At a park like disney if you use your fast pass on large attractions (which really is the point of the system), you get on 2 or 3 more rides in a day. As Jahan said a few posts up, at SFGadv. we completed the park in 3 hours, there is no contest in my opinion.

 

I paid several thousand dollars to go on the trip, so an extra $50 to get on all the rides and not go home having not ridden something just because of the length of the line is definitely worth it.

 

I missed about 6 out of 130 costers on the trip, and they were all either kiddy credits or closed when we were there. Had it not been for paid fast pass systems, that number would have been orders of magnitude greater.

[Guest]

I didnt mind getting Fastlanes back when they were $8, but now that the FlashPass is so expensive I dont use it. A regular in New Jersey is over $30 and a gold is $70!!! Seriousley, c'mon. The only park ive ever used it at is La Ronde and thats only because their operations were so bad we pretty much had to (plus the price wasnt too outrageous with the employee discount).

 

I also really dislike Disneys, its just completely uneccesary and makes the lines way longer plus it makes waiting in standby lines suck. If you enter the park in the afternoon the e-ticket Fastpasses will be out then you get stuck in the standby line thats extremely slow because of the stupid Fastpass. Not a fan.

 

IMO the best system is no system.

[arrowfanman]

They way I see it, you'd have to be stupid (*cough* Cedar Fair *cough*) to not offer a service that clearly is both profitable and offers the consumer more choice in the experience they want to have.

 

Cedar Fair doesn't need them. Even at their highest profile park, lines rarely exceeed 30 minutes except for their new "big thing" attraction.

 

Efficient general operations + motivated employees > pay-to-play system.

 

 

Their highest profile park is the only park at which the "Cedar Fair" formula makes any sort of sense. The majority of their parks that I have been to DO NOT run like Cedar Point. And even then again, I queued 45 minutes for both Millenium Force and Top Thrill Dragster. Comparibly, with my Gold Q-Bot, I bypassed a 90 minute queue for El Toro and got on in 8 minutes, Kingda Ka in 4.

 

 

 

-Jahan

[grinch1313]

I remember going to Disney and waiting 1 and 1/2 to 2 + hours for the E ticket attractions during the summer. We would only end up getting on a few of the best attractions because of the line length. Fastpass is the greatest invention in my opinion. Now, we can get on all the major attractions plus some others as well and still have time left over.

 

The gold Qbots were a god-send at the Six Flags parks that had them. At Great Adventure, we only had 4 more credits to get before the rain started. We rode all the other coasters in just a few hours.

 

I love the Fastpass, Qbot, Express Pass options. I am definitely willing to spend extra to get through an entire park in half a day. It leaves plenty of time for re-rides.

[Electerik]

Cedar Point used to have a good system. Disneyland, too. It was called "capacity" or something, I think.

 

Virtual queues are the devil. Unfortunately, people focus on how they help avoid the long lines, and not the fact that they help create the long lines.

 

The parks can and should be able to do as they want, of course. They're private businesses. But let me leave you with this thought: If a park now has to choose between adding a train to reduce the line, or keeping it long in order to sell "skip the line" passes, which one do you think more parks will opt for?

[saxman47]

But let me leave you with this thought: If a park now has to choose between adding a train to reduce the line, or keeping it long in order to sell "skip the line" passes, which one do you think more parks will opt for?

 

After working at Great Adventure for the summer, I can tell you this is most definitely not the case. The rides department could care less about flashpass sales. Our performance is rated on throughput. We have to report our hourly throughput number every hour, on the hour, and it goes straight to management. If the number is low, you had better have a good reason otherwise somebody will most likely pay you a visit. I can honestly say that at Nitro this year we ran 3 trains from open till close, every day. None of that "wait until the line gets long, then add a train" business. If all 3 were cleared by maintenance, all 3 were on at 10:30am. It was not uncommon to give 15,000 rides on a busy day.

[Electerik]

But let me leave you with this thought: If a park now has to choose between adding a train to reduce the line, or keeping it long in order to sell "skip the line" passes, which one do you think more parks will opt for?

 

After working at Great Adventure for the summer, I can tell you this is most definitely not the case.

 

"...in my limited experience." <--- There, fixed that for you.

 

Just as the first free queue management systems were destined to evolve into pay systems, so too will the money these pay systems generate come to be counted on and sought to be maximized.

 

Oh, and I have a bit of rides experience myself....

[davidmorton]

It was not uncommon to give 15,000 rides on a busy day.

 

That is a fast dispatch!!!

 

(maybe out by a factor of 10?)

[MisterP]

Cedar Point used to have a good system. Disneyland, too. It was called "capacity" or something, I think.

 

Virtual queues are the devil. Unfortunately, people focus on how they help avoid the long lines, and not the fact that they help create the long lines.

 

The parks can and should be able to do as they want, of course. They're private businesses. But let me leave you with this thought: If a park now has to choose between adding a train to reduce the line, or keeping it long in order to sell "skip the line" passes, which one do you think more parks will opt for?

 

I think the idea that a virtual queues like FastPass at the Disney resorts are the reason for the long lines is wrong.

 

Take Disneyland. Space Mountain and Indy have 45 minute wait times before the FastPass windows even open up for the day. And considering many people run to get FastPasses for those rides when the park opens and skip the Standby - so in reality its a 45 minute wait and MANY people who arrive at opening are purposefully NOT queueing for that ride (because they'll be back later with their FP).

 

On the flipside are Matterhorn, Storybookland Canal boats, and Finding Nemo. None of these rides has a FastPass system, yet their lines remain ridiculously long all day on most days.

 

FastPass spreads people out throughout the park more evenly, and it discourages people (a little bit) from Standby lines, thus making those lines relatively shorter. FP allows a smart person to be able to ride Space, Splash, Indy, BTMRR, and Buzz all in one day with shorter than 20 minute waits for each and still have plenty of time to ride 10-20 other rides....

[almightyfire]

The best experience I had with q lines moving fast was at Cedar Point when I first went in 1997. The brought those trains in, loaded them fast and got them out. The 2nd time I went is when Top Thrill first opened and the waits were much slower. A lot had changed at that time with operations it appeared. The 2 times I went to Universal the que lines never stopped moving. It was a constant walk. The ride ops got you prepared with what to do before u got on the ride. Jurassic Park was the best I had ever seen. The hurried you into the boat and got that boat going.

 

I always forget the flash pass systems when I go somewhere. I never go to an amusement park on weekends. Only on Mondays and Tuesdays. The only problem I have had with all the parks I had been to was getting on X. That load time is ridiculous. I rode it the first year it opened and from what I remembered. The gates opened and I walked on and sat down and the bars closed. I dont understand why that would take over 2 minutes to load one train. When i went last year it took 5 minutes for each train to dispatch. Now that doesnt make any sense. I too believe that since the flash pass systems have come into play that they dont encourage their employees to move expeditiously. Also if we ride everything in 3 hrs, we wont have any incentive to spend money in the park. Now I do believe that.

[southpuddle]

Just as the first free queue management systems were destined to evolve into pay systems, so too will the money these pay systems generate come to be counted on and sought to be maximized.

 

Ooh, I have an idea! Like signs in the stand-by queues claiming that the line is currently "45 MINUTES FROM THIS POINT" when it is more like 10, and then have an ad for Flashpass right below it!... Oh, wait... every Six Flags park already uses this misleading, sneaky tactic to sell more Flashpasses.

 

After working at Disney World at Rock 'n' Rollercoaster, I know perfectly well that there is a optimal crowd level in the park to where a Fastpass system works its best. If the park is completely dead, then a Fastpass system is pointless because the stand-by line is just as long. If the park is super-crowded, then the Fastpasses either "sell out" in the first hour the park is open (if it's Disney) or there are an insane number of people using the system to the point where you're still waiting a good 45 minutes in the Fastpass line and the stand-by line simply doesn't move at all.

 

Yes, a queue management system is fantastic (usually) for those patrons using the system, but it does nothing but piss off the people who don't want to fork over the extra money - or those patrons like me, who refuse to use it simply because they're morally against it.

[Electerik]

I think the idea that a virtual queues like FastPass at the Disney resorts are the reason for the long lines is wrong.

 

Interestingly phrased. So you don't think FastPass increases standby wait times, or you just think that they're harmless because there's going to be some kind of wait anyway?

 

Take Disneyland. Space Mountain and Indy have 45 minute wait times before the FastPass windows even open up for the day. And considering many people run to get FastPasses for those rides when the park opens and skip the Standby - so in reality its a 45 minute wait and MANY people who arrive at opening are purposefully NOT queueing for that ride (because they'll be back later with their FP).

 

Again, I may be stupid, but I'm not sure I follow your argument. So I'll counter it with a blanket statement: Virtual queues do not increase a ride's capacity one iota. So if you get in line, and I get a FastPass, you wait double--once for yourself, and once for me.

 

On the flipside are Matterhorn, Storybookland Canal boats, and Finding Nemo. None of these rides has a FastPass system, yet their lines remain ridiculously long all day on most days.

 

That's because those rides have low capacity to begin with, and adding FastPass to them would flood guest services with complaints from people who waited in the standby line, and from people who wanted a FastPass but found they couldn't get one ten minutes after the ticket kiosks opened.

 

FastPass spreads people out throughout the park more evenly, and it discourages people (a little bit) from Standby lines, thus making those lines relatively shorter.

 

No, FastPass causes people to have to crisscross the park in order to achieve what they used to be able to do in a more or less linear fashion.

 

And the standby line is only shorter in the sense that fewer people are standing in it. You do understand that they're standing in it longer, though, right?

 

FP allows a smart person to be able to ride Space, Splash, Indy, BTMRR, and Buzz all in one day with shorter than 20 minute waits for each and still have plenty of time to ride 10-20 other rides....

 

And herein lies the problem. People like (free) virtual queues because they think it helps them. It doesn't, but they think it does. Pay ones really do help people, of course, but at the cost of making others wait longer.

 

Remember how in Roller Coaster Tycoon, you could make the little peeps pay to get in AND to ride stuff? I always used to think that was unrealistic because real people wouldn't stand for it.

 

And yes, you as a "smart" patron can use a free system to wait less time than someone who gives it little thought. But didn't we all used to do that anyway by showing up early and trying to outsmart the crowds about what time of day to hit up each ride? FastPass is a shell game. Only pay systems actually achieve anything. But exactly what they achieve is a bit more muddled, morally-speaking.

[MisterP]

Well, all I can say is that for someone who gets to visit Disneyland every decade or so, Fast Pass allows me to be able to ride Space Mountain, Indy, and Splash Mountain something like 4-5 times in a 3-4 day trip while waiting in a line for an average of 15 minutes each time. It saves people who spend more than a day at the resort a LOT of time, which is who DLR should be catering to...

 

I don't buy this "if there was no FastPass, the 2 Mountains and Indy would be 25-40 minute waits" (or something to that affect). When the place gets as crowded as it tends to get, those lines would be swamped regardless of the presence of the FP system.

 

OK, maybe Space Mountains Standby line would be 50 instead of 60 or 70 minutes without FastPass. I couldn't care less, because I'm not waiting more than once for a ride for 50 minutes anyway. So instead of riding Space once in 3 days, with FastPass I can ride it 3-5 times. Is this really a bad thing? I'm sorry, I don't get that.

 

You can have your theories that refute mine, but I feel that I am smart enough to realize how much FastPass enhanced my enjoyment of my four days at the DLR this past March...and I didn't "perceive" that it helped me. It actually did...

[WFChris]

Considering the title of this thread SHOULD have been 'Lets start arguing about fast-passes again,' I will have to contribute by saying my favorite 'Queue Management System' is a well themed, shaded queue.

 

I don't mind waiting around 20 minutes or so in line. Part of the park experience is standing with your friends, talking, hyping up the ride, and hearing other peoples bizarre conversations. If you are waiting more than that, you are probably visiting on the wrong day of the week, and thats kinda your fault.

 

Some comparisons to that theory: I avoid the line to get to work ((aka i-5)) by commuting outside of commuter hours. I avoid the line at my favorite restaurant by going on weekdays. I fly red-eye.

 

I guess what I'm trying to say, is if lines bother you THAT much, then YOU can take preventative measures to avoid them. I am opinion-less regarding the fast-pass systems; clearly they are here to stay. I dont use them, but then again, since I make sure im not at the park the days they are necessary, I have never NEEDED to. Nor, am I offended by them. If I somehow end up at a park on a super busy day, well then yeah, I'll likely pick one up.

 

Chris.

[MisterP]

Considering the title of this thread SHOULD have been 'Lets start arguing about fast-passes again,' I will have to contribute by saying my favorite 'Queue Management System' is a well themed, shaded queue.

 

I don't mind waiting around 20 minutes or so in line. Part of the park experience is standing with your friends, talking, hyping up the ride, and hearing other peoples bizarre conversations. If you are waiting more than that, you are probably visiting on the wrong day of the week, and thats kinda your fault.

 

Some comparisons to that theory: I avoid the line to get to work ((aka i-5)) by commuting outside of commuter hours. I avoid the line at my favorite restaurant by going on weekdays. I fly red-eye.

 

I guess what I'm trying to say, is if lines bother you THAT much, then YOU can take preventative measures to avoid them. I am opinion-less regarding the fast-pass systems; clearly they are here to stay. I dont use them, but then again, since I make sure im not at the park the days they are necessary, I have never NEEDED to. Nor, am I offended by them. If I somehow end up at a park on a super busy day, well then yeah, I'll likely pick one up.

 

Chris.

 

If you think people can always take off weekdays in the fall and winter to travel to Disneyland, then you have a lot to learn about life. Some people only have things like summer, Christmas, and Spring Break to travel to their favorite park.

 

As a teacher, I will never be able to visit Anaheim in the non-peak times of the year. Never. Ever.

 

Some people on here need to realize how things are in the real world, and outside of the theme park fanatic community.

 

Plus, I just PROVED that you can see everything during peak season by traveling and visiting intelligently. I could visit on any day of the year, and I could use FastPass to my advantage enough to make that a good enough day to visit the park...

[WFChris]

School teachers can still visit on a weekend in October. A weekday in August. Etc Etc. I in no way live in the lap of luxury, my job dictates when my time off is, and in a lot of cases, WHERE I am. For example, I normally live around California, but I'm currently in Ohio. I asked for a tuesday off a few weeks ago so I could see KI. It worked out.

 

Anyway, back to the topic instead of defending myself and/or 'some people,' I still say a well shaded, themed queue is the way to go!!!

 

The less you make the guest zig zag, the better.

 

Chris.

[MisterP]

School teachers can still visit on a weekend in October. A weekday in August. Etc Etc. I in no way live in the lap of luxury, my job dictates when my time off is, and in a lot of cases, WHERE I am. For example, I normally live around California, but I'm currently in Ohio. I asked for a tuesday off a few weeks ago so I could see KI. It worked out.

 

Anyway, back to the topic instead of defending myself and/or 'some people,' I still say a well shaded, themed queue is the way to go!!!

 

The less you make the guest zig zag, the better.

 

Chris.

 

If you coach 3 high school sports to supplement your income, then yes, it IS impossible to visit on weekends during the school year.