Obama or McCain or Beemerboy?

[BeemerBoy]

Okay, first off, I applaud Tyler for his attempts at a civil debate, and suggestion to continue it by private messaging. That's the correct way to discuss what could potentially flare up into a heated argument.

 

With that said; however, I do feel the need to address one certain aspect of the debate.

 

 

This same lady referred to the Iraq War as a "task from god" and asked people to pray for a plan to build a $30 billion natural gas pipeline in the state, calling it "God's will." It's time to get real people.

 

Now she may sound great to someone who is religious with the same views, but any practical person knows we don't need someone who has so much faith in an invisible force to lead our country in the same way.

 

Honestly, I'm quite insulted by the highlighted insinuation. I'm a Christian, yet I also consider myself an extremely practical person as well. With that practicality, I never let my judgement of any particular person lie solely on their religious views, whether I'm in agreement with them or not. So I'd appreciate an apology for this blanket statement.

 

With that said, I'll leave you with some food for thought based on your opinion of leadership under Christian beliefs.

 

Some of this country's most honored leaders also believed in God. Although his personal life while in office is obviously sketchy and debatable, there is no denying that while faced with this country's closest point of actual nuclear war, he stood firm in his beliefs, and helped avoid disaster. Say what you want about the man, but his role during the Cuban Missile Crisis was probably the most pivotal in modern American history. He was Catholic.

 

The debate over Abraham Lincoln's religious beliefs are widely challenged; however, I find it it difficult to argue with the following quote from our 16th President during our nation's Civil War:

 

The will of God prevails. In great contests each party claims to act in accordance with the will of God. Both may be, and one must be, wrong. God cannot be for and against the same thing at the same time. In the present civil war it is quite possible that God's purpose is something different from the purpose of either party -- and yet the human instrumentalities, working just as they do, are of the best adaptation to effect His purpose. I am almost ready to say that this is probably true -- that God wills this contest, and wills that it shall not end yet. By his mere great power, on the minds of the now contestants, He could have either saved or destroyed the Union without a human contest. Yet the contest began. And, having begun He could give the final victory to either side any day. Yet the contest proceeds.

 

There are also many other quotes, as well as personal accounts from actual acquaintances of Mr. Lincoln as to how he believed in God. Seems it never hampered him from becoming one of America's most revered Presidents.

 

Finally, one of America's greatest war heroes, General George S. Patton was a practicing Christian, even in the middle of one of the greatest conflicts the world had ever seen.

 

Almighty and most merciful Father, we humbly beseech thee, of thy great goodness, to restrain these immoderate rains with which we have had to contend. Grant us fair weather for battle. Graciously hearken to us as soldiers who call upon thee that armed with thy power, we may advance from victory to victory, and crush the oppression and wickedness of our enemies, and establish thy justice among men and nations. Amen.

 

In early December General Patton's US Third Army was hindered in their advance by heavy rains, and soft ground that brought his armored advance to a standstill, while the weather prevented air strikes. General Patton, who was a devout churchman (Protestant Episcopal) and daily said Evening and Morning Prayer on his knees, was convinced that his soldiers did not pray enough, and that only God's help would break the weather and facilitate the Army's advance. He directed his chaplain to write a collect for the Army for his approval. His chaplain did so, and recommended also a Christmas greeting on the reverse of the prayer which Patton approved. General Patton called for his soldiers to pray at all times, in their foxholes, when traveling, etc. - always with this imprecatory prayer. Beginning on about the 8th of December, the Army began to distribute 250,000 copies of the prayer with a Training Directive to pray. On the 20th the weather broke, a cold front moved in and froze the earth solid. Allied air attacks commenced in earnest combined with an armored thrust to break the German Bulge in the Battle of Bastone. Patton's Army struck deep into the German lines in a most remarkable victory to relieve the 101st Airborne Division that was encircled at Bastone, France. This was the last major offensive that Hitler was able to mount, and the Allied forces continued their advance to end the war.

 

 

 

Still questioning the ability to lead as a Christian?

 

Naturally, I understand how many hot-button voting topics these days are dependent upon a politician's religious beliefs (abortion, gay marriage, etc.) , but statements such as, "but any practical person knows we don't need someone who has so much faith in an invisible force to lead our country in the same way," are a bit misguided, if you will, when determining someone's overall ability to hold a leadership role. Sorry, that .02 was once again burning a hole in my pocket.

 

 

I will also gladly continue any religious/political debate concerning this by pm (no, not that P&M).

[cfc]

^It does boil down to being respectful of other persons' beliefs. The only person as annoying than a militant Christian is an equally militant atheist.

 

As for agnostics, Monty Python summed it up best: "There's nothing a good agnostic can't accomplish as long as he's not sure what he believes in."

 

OK, a question for Candidate Beemer. Heart is asking the McCain campaign to "cease and desist" in using their music (for example, "Barracuda") during the campaign because they do not support him or Sarah Palin. Beemer, what music would you like to use in your campaign, and would you seek the artist's permission in doing so?

[crispy]

I agree completely with forget Palin. (Though i doubt she backed off because she made a mistake as to what she believes as opposed to what she thinks people want to hear) She is an absolute trainwreck and is just taking the attention off of John McCain, or as former Secretary of Homeland Security Tom Ridge called him, John Bush.

 

The only reason why I would not agree with a "forget Palin" strategy is simple. We (democrats) in 2004 didn't think that Bush would have a snowball's chance in hell of getting re-elected. Well, here we are 4 years later. Never underestimate the power of the ill-informed and under educated in mass numbers. Most people in this day and age tend to gravitate towards that which makes them feel warm and fuzzy, no matter what the message is. Palin, for whom I will reserve my own derogatory comments, is an excellent public speaker and possesses the power to influence idiots on a colossal level. Hell! She even had getting closer to the TV even though I'm a fairly well educated man an know better.

 

 

I cannot and will not vote for someone who is now for making woman get illegal abortions, and for denying me rights. Yes, I know Obama is not exactly for gay marriage, but he is for federal benefits based upon a gay marriage on the state level.

 

You know... being a gay man myself, I've resigned myself to the fact that "gay rights" will be a long, hard fought battle. The gay community is going to have to rise up in unity and make declaration and notice with one voice. We should all be focused on making sure that we don't set ourselves back 50 years where basic human rights and health is concerned. To declare all abortion to be bad abortion is to revert back to a time prior to Roe vs. Wade where women were going to back alleys and rouge doctors. To deny that sex education needs to be taught in schools is just as bad. Palin is looking/sounding more like an antagonistic & militant Donna Reed every day.

 

Hello, I must be ill-informed, and under educated ........ Hi

 

Thanks for totally insulting me for making a choice in my vote When I voted for Bush in 2004, it was because I researched the issues, and felt he was the best choice for what was important to me, I am not a moron, I ran the security department for a county hospital, and now have a decent paying job at a university

 

My suggestion is to not use broad offensive strokes of idiocy when posting about people and thier very personal choice

 

your very offended friend

 

Chris

[bigstevet07]

OK, a question for Candidate Beemer. Heart is asking the McCain campaign to "cease and desist" in using their music (for example, "Barracuda") during the campaign because they do not support him or Sarah Palin. Beemer, what music would you like to use in your campaign, and would you seek the artist's permission in doing so?

 

I definitely can't answer for the esteemed Beemerboy, but may I suggest anything off Dr. Dre's The Chronic or Snoop's Doggystyle? They are easily the best choices for the PMW platform.

[BeemerBoy]

OK, a question for Candidate Beemer. Heart is asking the McCain campaign to "cease and desist" in using their music (for example, "Barracuda") during the campaign because they do not support him or Sarah Palin. Beemer, what music would you like to use in your campaign, and would you seek the artist's permission in doing so?

 

I'm glad you asked, sir. Our campaign was originally inspired by the classical musical stylings of one Mr. 'Lil Wayne, whose deep, thought-provoking lyrical work was paramount to a brave young South Carolina youth, and ultimately responsible for this candidate's desire to win this nation's highest political office.

 

I'm proud to announce that 'Lil Wayne has graciously accepted our invitation to personally perform at next week's "convention" in the ATL. Opening acts will be Snoop, Dre, 311, and Ziggy Marley.

[Moose]

I am so happy that Heart, actually said something about the republicans using Barracuda, even after they asked them not to.

 

"Sarah Palin's views and values in NO WAY represent us as American women. We ask that our song 'Barracuda' no longer be used to promote her image. The song 'Barracuda' was written in the late 70s as a scathing rant against the soulless, corporate nature of the music business, particularly for women. (The 'barracuda' represented the business.) While Heart did not and would not authorize the use of their song at the RNC, there's irony in Republican strategists' choice to make use of it there."

 

I repeat. soulless, corporate nature.

 

Go Ann and Nancy

 

(GE, I agree with you fully)

[mcjaco]

Um, Mrs. Davis from Varisty Blues (teacher/stripper) and Sarah Palin.

 

 

YIKES!

 

Hello, I must be ill-informed, and under educated ........ Hi

 

Thanks for totally insulting me for making a choice in my vote When I voted for Bush in 2004, it was because I researched the issues, and felt he was the best choice for what was important to me, I am not a moron, I ran the security department for a county hospital, and now have a decent paying job at a university

 

My suggestion is to not use broad offensive strokes of idiocy when posting about people and thier very personal choice

 

your very offended friend

 

Chris

 

I don't see anywhere in his quote where he points his finger AT you. You cannot argue that the American public as awhole is like a flock of sheep.

 

Kudos for doing the research, most people don't.

[crispy]

No I believ he said, "no one believed Bush would win in 2004 ..... never underestimate the ill-informed and under educated"

 

This thread is turning into a bash the republicans thread, which is very VERY offensive to me, I choose to vote this way because is the way I believe, I see you comparing Palin to a stripper, which is in a word, disgusting

 

Thank goodness I am old enough to have a small amount of respect for other peoples beliefs, I am reporting you all to a moderator, this is rediculious

[cfc]

^The moderators are watching this thread closely, and will issue warnings as necessary. Please do not "backseat moderate."

 

As for the "stripper" comparison, it was a joke--and the resemblance is quite uncanny. Remember that having a sense of humor is essential to enjoying TPR.

[BeemerBoy]

No I believ he said, "no one believed Bush would win in 2004 ..... never underestimate the ill-informed and under educated"

 

This thread is turning into a bash the republicans thread, which is very VERY offensive to me, I choose to vote this way because is the way I believe, I see you comparing Palin to a stripper, which is in a word, disgusting

 

Thank goodness I am old enough to have a small amount of respect for other peoples beliefs, I am reporting you all to a moderator, this is rediculious

 

Seems like someone could use some W.

 

 

Oh, and Matt, the comparison (obviously based on looks alone) was hilarious!

[Wes]

Seeing as this debate has devolved into cries of personal attacks (from both sides) and rancorous ideology battles, perhaps it's best to let this one die.

 

If someone wants to start a Beemerboy 4 Prez thread, since that was actually good fun, go ahead! But the real world debate doesn't seem like it can be properly discussed here without people feeling they are getting personally attacked or something.

 

Let the eaaaaagles soarrrr.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFmMGYv3mag