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Obama or McCain or Beemerboy?


Who do you favor in the election?  

190 members have voted

  1. 1. Who do you favor in the election?

    • Obama
      95
    • McCain
      40
    • Beemerboy
      55


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The union sucks thats why I am not in it.

 

No I don't think the nea will support merit pay, that is why i wondered why you said his plans will have NEA written all over it.

 

By the time any education package is announced, merit pay, incentives, or any other mechanism that would bring improvements over the status quo will be nowhere to be seen.

Mc Cain and Obama are in campaign mode, when reality sets in for the winner we will see a totally different education package.

 

Palin is preaching sex-until-marriage, yet it clearly didn't work.

 

If that's the case, I am not voting for Mc Cain.

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^^^I know that we have no idea what the daughter used, but his comment was directed toward her idea of abstinence, which clearly didn't work on a family basis, so why should it work on a nation-wide basis?

 

But perhaps the school Bristol attended doesn't use abstinence-only sex-ed (maybe they do, but again - something we can't assume). Parents aren't the only people who teach kids/teens about sex anymore. Either way, I think that we can both agree that neither program works 100% of the time 1) because no birth control is 100% effective and 2) while abstinence IS 100% effective, not 100% of kids will remain abstinent.

 

Palin is preaching sex-until-marriage, yet it clearly didn't work. Any other circumstances are unknown, so I agree with you that we won't know anything about that, but protection isn't the problem, it's the abstinence not working that caused the problem.

 

While I know that this isn't what you meant, I just gotta say that abstinence DOES work. I mean, except for Mary, I can't think of any other people that had spontaneous pregnancies or STDs. And abstinence IS possible - I personally can attest to that.

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Obama has a great response to all the people worked up about Sarah Palin's family:

 

"I have said before and I will repeat again: People's families are off limits," Obama said. "And people's children are especially off-limits. This shouldn't be part of our politics. It has no relevance to Gov. Palin's performance as a governor or her potential performance as a vice president. So I would strongly urge people to back off these kinds of stories. You know my mother had me when she was 18 and how a family deals with issues and teenage children, that shouldn’t be a topic of our politics."

 

I agree with this. Although I'm not impressed with Sarah Palin as a politician, I don't think her teenage daughter is fair game. Her daughter didn't ask to be thrust upon the national political stage. She just got dragged along for the ride. Lots of teens have sex. Bristol just got unlucky. End of story.

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^^Woops, I definitely mis-worded that.

 

But yes, I completely agree that no program or teaching is 100 percent effective for the reasons you stated. And I understand that parents are not the only people that will influence a teenager's opinion and actions, but I know in my case as well as many others that they are.

 

And yes, abstinence does work, as I can attest to it also. But like you said, not everyone will remain abstinent until marriage. But for someone that is preaching abstinence and abstinence-only teachings in schools, etc., I feel that she should have been able to influence her own daughter enough to remain abstinent. I understand that controlling your kids is difficult, yet I know that it is not impossible. My parents taught me that sex can be dangerous and that there is no single way of protecting against pregnancy other than abstinence (not that it matters now anyways, since I'm gay, but they didn't know that when they first started teaching this idea to me) as well as other matters, such as drinking and drug use. I've remained abstinent, don't do drugs, and have never consumed alcohol (and actually don't plan on ever drinking), so I know that it's very possible if you do talk to your kids and teach them correctly. This is one of the reasons that I don't feel that she was the correct pick for VP. I'm also not sure why McCain picked her as his running mate. I know quite a few conservatives that will be upset by her daughter's pregnancy. I agree with Obama that politicians' children should be off-limits, but in the real world, that is not going to happen.

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Being 19, you should know hiow much most teenagers listen to thier parents

 

Its a fact of life, she obviously made a choice, and is now having to deal with the results of that choice, Its not fair to assume that just because Sarah Palin is for Abstince that her own daughter cannot make mistakes, she a teenager, these things happen to every family, no matter the upbringing, the important thing is for her family to love her unconditionally, and support her

 

I am actually pretty ticked off that this type of thing is being discussed, Even Obama said to leave it alone, it is a personal family matter, and has ZERO to do with Sarah Palin, and what she brings to the table, there are many MANY other valid points to discuss about McCain's VP pick without having to drag her family situation into this, very bad form

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^^^

 

Hey hey hey, this raging homosexual supports McCain.

 

I just think there are more important things in running a country than something like marriage. McCain supports a contract between homosexual couples giving them all the benefits of marriage anyway, so really people who see themselves not voting for him on reasons of gay marriage are really just basing their vote on the absence of a title. =/

 

Great seperate but equal, glad we know it's worked so well throughout history lol.

 

I don't necessarily support DADT, but i don't disagree with it either.

 

I'm glad you are willing to sacrifice your personal rights for the "greater good," (only reason it's in quotes is you said there were more important things then these issues for you and they differ greatly from my "greater goods" not as a knock on your views) And let yourself, and other homosexuals, be discriminated against upon stereotypes on both sides (homosexuals being "soft" and all straight guys hating all gays tot he point of violence). Gay men and women are still serving in the military, and a lot of the times their unit actually knows but doesn't say anything because of DADT. I could definitely see the usefulness when it was enacted in 1993, but the time has definitely passed for it's usefulness. This rant of mine is definitely getting OT (but not really cause it's all tied into my vote for Obama or Mickey Mouse lol) but I would suggest watching this 60 minutes (and the second part) for some more on the subject.

 

But it's definitely not just Gay Marriage for me and many homosexuals voting in this election that is at stake (which is a pretty big deal in my book any way and I'm glad I live in California, NO on Prop 8!!), it's also DADT as mentioned, and finally getting the Matthew Shepard Act passed to name a few GLBT/ Civil Rights issues at hand.

 

Again, it may not be that important to you, but these are just as important to me as lowering gas prices. It DOES affect my way of everyday life and while I don't particularly like either candidate, and politics in general for all the mudslinging that goes around, I usually lean Democrat and Liberal while voting.

 

Hell, my vote may not even go to the President this year if I can't make up my mind between the "lesser of two evils", but I WILL be voting on at least the other issues that I have made up my mind about. I believe that while one person won't make a huge difference in any election, thousands of people who think that, will. Remember, you don't have to vote on every issue, you can leave it blank. The important thing is to at least get your vote in for the things that do matter to you and your voice be heard instead of just bitching about it later.

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More coming out about Gov. Palin...... She once received a citation for fishing without a license. GASP! And her husband received a DUI in 1986 when he was 22.

 

The first is obviously no big deal. While DUI is a very serious matter, I do not see how the democrats would want to make this into a big deal. Teddy Kennedy seems to always get a pass on this. It was Todd Palin that got the DUI, not Sarah Palin.

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More coming out about Gov. Palin...... She once received a citation for fishing without a license. GASP! And her husband received a DUI in 1986 when he was 22.

 

The first is obviously no big deal. While DUI is a very serious matter, I do not see how the democrats would want to make this into a big deal. Teddy Kennedy seems to always get a pass on this. It was Todd Palin that got the DUI, not Sarah Palin.

Well I can't give Sarah Palin a pass on fishing without a license. Fish died man, FISH DIED!!

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Something is fishy with the "wholesome" Palin family. Now, the teenage daughter is pregnant.

 

How convenient that she is 5 months pregnant, and the youngest child is 4 months old. I suppose that squashes the rumor that the baby with downs syndrome is actually the daughters...that is, until the unfortunate miscarriage takes place in a few weeks. I'd be willing to bet that she isn't really pregnant.

 

Even if she is pregnant, this goes to show how well the abstinence only preaching that Palin is so fond of works. Perhaps if she offered her daughter access to birth control this trainwreck could have been avoided.

 

I find it hard to believe that McCain knew about the knocked up daughter when Palin was chosen.

 

I think the Palin family is nothing more than Jerry Springer quality trash. I guess that's why Republicans are eating it up so much.

 

====================================

 

So by using the above logic…

 

Obama should not be president?

 

Obama is from a broken home, with a father who left him at the age of 2. (Sounds like a Springer headline?)

Obama has admitted to past drug use. (+ broken home…)

Obama went 17 years without paying parking tickets from Cambridge between 1988 and 1991. (17 Years, man we would have been arrested. That’s character.)

Obama did attend a Muslim school, but also a Catholic school. Ether way he does have questionable, possible ties and or relations in which need strong clarification.

 

Point being bashing a woman’s daughter who made a mistake? Obama says they will not attack, of course he would say that. That’s why they have groups who support him that will. (Swift Boats, example of structure) They claim no direct control and support but truly are.

 

Also folks. Think about this. After every attack Obama comes out and say it’s not right to do that, makes him look caring while reminding people of the topic of issue. Do you really buy it? I think it makes him look guilty, just like I would question McCain riding the spot light of a hot topic.

 

Obama flat out lied to the US public, 100% admits to the issues which took place at his church and the anti government, add in some colorful hate speeches and contradicting his (I would have walked out, moments) own words. To me personally this WAS A HUGE flip flop. And no this is a major issue. What he said, and then admitted. Can you really say he had a change of heart when in his own words he 100% admitted to BS’ing 100% of his speech?

So if you worried about a knocked up daughter, WOW.

I think it’s 1,000% wrong to tackle anything other then the running mates. Wife’s, sure I think wife’s should be equal in the dirt digging game since after all they could and can have effect on judgments.

 

Everyone has a skeleton but not even 5 min after Palin was announced the Dem party went into damage control and then over time digging. It’s pathetic.

 

I had said in the past I want to view this with an open mind, but to this day Obama has not explained anything and I find myself laughing after has speeches.

 

Major topics either conflict with voting records, or he’s bending into pressure of the party. Now one might say so McCain does it too. You Bet, and they both flip flop pretty close to equally.. But Obama supporters don’t even know where his current positions even are and I’m sorry but he is really bad about catering to the crowds for reaction.

 

Gay marriage: Voted NO for the bill that would have opened the door into states selecting their own laws and handling of such issue. Actual interviews seem to go in different directions with both support of, and no so much. (Funny for someone how actually votes so little to even use a N.. Maybe he meant NV?)

 

Lobbyist money:

This is so covered in BS across the board. Obama made a big deal out of it, and not (by definition of words as we find out later) excepting it with those great speeches. Yes he is, and does. But not with the definition of the words in which it is defined. Sneaky right. Tell the voters what they want to hear, when in reality you’re still doing it anyways. (Doubt me I have even have a CNN, Obama network spelling it out. Or if you want the gold MSNBC.)

 

Actual voting record:

For someone with such a short time behind him, he sure had a lot of NV votes.

 

Off shore drilling:

We all know how long that lasted right. NO.. well yes?

 

Welfare:

Which day?

 

Green Technologies:

Both parties seem pretty open to this, which is great!

(As for big oil relationships.. They both have them. And Obama second dad was a manager for oil company over seas. Sorry don’t remember the company or name, should be easy to find, boy if that had been McCain... It would never end.)

 

The Great Speaker:

Not without a teleprompter. Still waiting for how he is going to try and force a pre debated structure of the debate with talking points, and teleprompter. Just wait. One way or another we will need the information before hand to have then write his speeches.

 

Now in his own words.

 

So which are you supporting? For the supporters?

 

Now the supporter reply is to list all of McCains flip flops, and oh boy he has... But I have a real history to research on McCain to conclude my own personal judgment. Mistakes happen, but Obama’s mistakes also happen the most around the right crowds, and it’s just want they want to hear.

 

Point being when I wrote this is this. Research the actual history of the 2 candidates below then base a judgment of their actually actions, and not the words.

 

Wes I respect your views You have real reasons to support your view. Many still not not. I do not want everyone to only agree to what I think and or believe by any means, it's just frustrating to see so many who do not do the research themselves and conclude an answer based in McBush for a reply, or disgrace themselves by attacking a minor for doing what we did in high school folks. Could of happen to any of us in high school.

 

Obama has many issues that need to be brought to the public and clearly answered, and they should be discussed far more then they have been. Besides the flips on topics,

 

Remember president of the United States, not your home owners

 

*Sorry if this is kind of shuffled been jumping on/off writing this during my free time…

 

McCain voting record:

http://www.votesmart.org/voting_category.php?can_id=53270

Obama voting record:

http://www.votesmart.org/voting_category.php?can_id=9490

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...and has ZERO to do with Sarah Palin, and what she brings to the table, there are many MANY other valid points to discuss about McCain's VP pick without having to drag her family situation into this, very bad form

 

Unfortunately, it does have to do with her. If you use the platform of abstinence, it weakens your character when your own daughter doesn't follow the plan. I agree that they need to keep the kids out of it.

 

If, McCain knew about this, why didn't they just release the info right away? It always looks fishy when stuff like this is learned through the media.

 

Obama went 17 years without paying parking tickets from Cambridge between 1988 and 1991. (17 Years, man we would have been arrested. That’s character.)

 

Yeah, like none of us have ever tossed out parking tickets. My wife has three library books that are ten years overdue. Please.

 

Obama did attend a Muslim school, but also a Catholic school. Ether way he does have questionable, possible ties and or relations in which need strong clarification.

 

How many times does this have to be brought up? It's been cleared up.

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But Obama supporters don’t even know where his current positions even are and I’m sorry but he is really bad about catering to the crowds for reaction.

 

I am still amazed how one of the arguments being posted in here by several Mccain supporters is that Obama supporters don't know his record so that's why they are voting for him. Which basically calls Obama supporters, myself included, ignorant.

 

Has it ever crossed your mind that we may know both voting records and just side with Obama's more than Mccain's? No, that can't be it. I can't possibly be thinking for myself since I am voting democrat.

 

 

 

One more thing, You are also talking out of both sides of your face. You call dem's pathetic for digging up stuff on Palin, then you yourself do the same with Obama.

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Quote:

crispy wrote:

...and has ZERO to do with Sarah Palin, and what she brings to the table, there are many MANY other valid points to discuss about McCain's VP pick without having to drag her family situation into this, very bad form

 

Unfortunately, it does have to do with her. If you use the platform of abstinence, it weakens your character when your own daughter doesn't follow the plan. I agree that they need to keep the kids out of it.

 

If, McCain knew about this, why didn't they just release the info right away? It always looks fishy when stuff like this is learned through the media.

 

raptorcrew2002 wrote:

Obama went 17 years without paying parking tickets from Cambridge between 1988 and 1991. (17 Years, man we would have been arrested. That’s character.)

 

 

Yeah, like none of us have ever tossed out parking tickets. My wife has three library books that are ten years overdue. Please.

 

raptorcrew2002 wrote:

Obama did attend a Muslim school, but also a Catholic school. Ether way he does have questionable, possible ties and or relations in which need strong clarification.

 

 

How many times does this have to be brought up? It's been cleared up.

 

 

But wouldn’t that fall under responsibility?

 

Judgments, decisions, are choices you make?

 

Does Obama’s 2 faces on the Reveron Wright not fall under character? Or the unpaid tickets, etc?

 

Honeslty?

 

I agree with the details being left out then appearing aspect of the reply. But this is also the point. If as many details were ever followed up with Obama. My points are really more about fairness in reporting, and offering true equal coverage.

 

Also with that format would Obama not admit fully address the issues with his church before it became public knowledge?

 

As for the school, what has the name of it again?

 

Library books. Ok it takes a couple more non returned books to have a warrant issued.

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^OK, since you've brought up Rev. Wright again, let's talk a little about one of McCain's buddies, Rev. John Hagee:

 

1. Believes the U.S. should join Israel in a preemtpive strike against Iran to bring on the "end of the world because it's a "biblical prophecy."

2. Believes that the Anti-Christ will be the head of the European Union.

3. Makes anti-Semetic comments, even while "supporting" Israel.

4. Believes that Hurricane Katrina was God's retribution against New Orleans, due to it being a "sinful" place (he particularly blames Gay people for it).

 

Yet this is a man McCain is "proud" to call a supporter--he actually sought out the support of Hagee.

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I am still amazed how one of the arguments being posted in here by several Mccain supporters is that Obama supporters don't know his record so that's why they are voting for him. Which basically calls Obama supporters, myself included, ignorant.

 

Has it ever crossed your mind that we may know both voting records and just side with Obama's more than Mccain's? No, that can't be it. I can't possibly be thinking for myself since I am voting democrat.

 

One more thing, You are also talking out of both sides of your face. You call dem's pathetic for digging up stuff on Palin, then you yourself do the same with Obama.

 

Fair enough, then name them.

Change is not an answer until Obama can fully define the term himself, then blaming everything on Bush is over kill. Is not perfect BY ANYMEANS!!!!!!! Hence cap's... But not on his own.

 

I asked this earlier and as I said, Wes actually had a reason, and I respect it, and I have seen a few others. Many are strickly Dem only voters, some think they heard something which many times ends up being wrong... Etc. My compaints are to the parrots, none thinkers, and the supporters without an anwser.

 

The smart supporters understand the pros and cons. The Pros only are the scary ones.

 

As for digging up on Obama. Umm. Dude this was public information, media and documented. ? Digging is outside the public forum...

 

This also points out the lack of fairness in the campaign. When something blows up around Obama it doesn't last very long, nor does it get presured for an answer like when McCain is confronted.

 

A long time ago I stated and still believe in my words. I think both options suck.

 

This is more of a matter of the best of the worst options and not trying to offend anyone here. If you feel like you really have no clue why you support him, then yes you should feel like this was directed to you.

 

If you know why, I truly would appreciate real answers as to why anything I said was wrong, with a real answer. Tell me why, not that I am.

 

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My wife is a die hard Democrat. I don't know why, I don't really care.

 

My father is a die hard Republican. I don't know why, I don't really care.

 

I'm neither. I vote for the man (or woman) that I believe will be the best suited for my beliefs, and who looks like they'll take the United States in the direction it needs to go. I didn't care for Clinton, Obama amazes me with his rhetoric but not much else, and McCain does nothing for me. His choice for VP really scares me. As someone that isn't sure which way to vote, it seemed like a shoot from the hip choice, and a plea to gather up Clinton waiverers. That's a scary propostion coming from a man that wants to lead the free world.

 

As for the, why people are getting PO'ed about your and other sentiments, it's not the substance of the message, but sometimes the way the message is presented.

 

We have Democrats force their opinions of Republicans, and now it seems the Republicans are trying to force feed their ideals down the Democrats throats.

 

This is the last warning. Let's keep this civil. Explaining your reasonings why your voting for such and such is fine. Telling people they're wrong in their decision is not acceptable anymore. One more post like that, and this thread is history.

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^OK, since you've brought up Rev. Wright again, let's talk a little about one of McCain's buddies, Rev. John Hagee:

 

1. Believes the U.S. should join Israel in a preemtpive strike against Iran to bring on the "end of the world because it's a "biblical prophecy."

2. Believes that the Anti-Christ will be the head of the European Union.

3. Makes anti-Semetic comments, even while "supporting" Israel.

4. Believes that Hurricane Katrina was God's retribution against New Orleans, due to it being a "sinful" place (he particularly blames Gay people for it).

 

Yet this is a man McCain is "proud" to call a supporter--he actually sought out the support of Hagee.

 

Glad you brought that up.

 

#1.

"I have said I do not believe Sen. Obama shares Rev. Wright's extreme views. But let me also be clear, Rev. Hagee was not and is not my pastor or spiritual adviser, and I did not attend his church for 20 years. I have denounced statements he made immediately upon learning of them, as I do again today," McCain said.

 

#2. McCain did not except his endorsement.

#3. McCain did not learn/study from the teachings on this guy, and sell him as a hero or someone to look up too. (I can supply those video clips too

#4. McCain did not defend this guy.

#5. Hagee did not issue written books with reference of religions of a different view should be killed basically.

#6. While also possible nuts, like Obama's.. At least he didn't trash the USA/sept 11, never had clear and repeated video displaying this projected image and or hatred.

#7. He actually apologized for his remarks, and then didn't run around with the same words being tossed across the country.

#8. McCain did not grow up, looking up to this man for support!!!

#9. Again. Obama learned from his teachings, and respected this man. Considered him as family. ***Maybe you have seen some random source that published McCain inviting Hagee over for dinner every Sunday and if so I would love to see that reference.**

 

Tell me how the 2 are even close to the same evils. Not defending Hagee hes most likely nuts too, but Wright and Obama... Your talking a whole other world here folks.

 

Thats desperation trying to tie the 2 in this type of relations, and if you truly think Hagee is bad, but Wright is not, or even worse... Double wow....

 

 

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/05/22/mccain.hagee/

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Yes, it's good that he "renounced" Hagee when pressed--as Obama did Wright. But McCain did initially accept Hagee's endorsement last February, and did say he was proud to have it before he, apparently, wasn't so proud to have it. If you're going to fault Obama for his pastor, you can't give McCain a pass for Hagee. Apparently, McCain doesn't vet his supporters any better than his picks for VP.

 

McCain also gave the commencement address at Jerry Falwell's Liberty University, a man McCain had lambasted during his run against Bush. He has been actively courting the far-right fringe.

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coaster05 had said earlier: Experience, in my opinion the most overrated thing in the election............. Last I checked I don't really think there is a job that gives you "experience" on being the most powerful person on the planet.

 

I could not agree more. I said more or less the same thing when people were using the whole "experience" reason for supporting Hillary in the primaries.

 

I also agree that it is unfair to pick on Governor Palin's daughter for her pregnancy as it is an issue that faces many teenagers across the nation, but this particular teenager's mother is trying to help win an election to become the understudy to the most powerful position in our nation.

 

It is one thing to be Idealistic, and another to be Realistic. In an ideal world, people would abstain and wait until marriage, but in the real world, there are many people who do not wait, and because many of the people who live by these ideal beliefs believe that only speaking of them will be enough to keep their kids from getting pregnant. As we see in many cases though, it could have been prevented by telling them of safe-sex options.

 

I had a teacher who told us about a time she taught sex-ed in Wilson County, NC. In Wilson County, it is local law that you can ONLY teach abstinence, and could not speak of safe-sex options. That is fine and dandy, except for the fact that three of the girls in the class were already pregnant

 

I believe it was natatomic who said that we do not know what exactly happened in the Palin family in regards to her pregnant daughter, which is absolutely true. We can't say what exactly happened. I will say though that if she is as abstinence-oriented as others have eluded to, I kind of have to believe that she was probably trying to tell her kids of abstinence only. If she was telling the about safe-sex options, then I applaud her for that, but then she wold be pulling a double standard since she would be telling her daughter "go for it" while telling others to keep their pants on.

 

One other thing, if you believe Obama only reads from a telepromter, you might have not been to a speech of his. At his speech in Greenville when Melissa and I went to see him, it was just a him, a stage and a microphone. That's not to say he doesn't use one at all, as many great great speakers use them for help, but what I am saying is that he is an excellent speaker, even when the telepromters are not around.

 

-Gary T.

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^Not only is it obvious there is not teleprompter in front of him on most occasions, if you have seen him in person, he rarely breaks eye contact with the audience and will often talk to the audiences on the sides of him, making using some electronic source to read his speeches impossible.

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^He either has amazing memory or REALLY good improvisation skills.

 

Now what I'm about to do is state my opinion on something that might not have ANYTHING to do with the topic of people talking above me, so excuse me if this sounds out of the blue. (I didn't want to read the thread I'm feeling lazy right now.)

 

--On the matter of the VP choice for John McCain--

 

I honestly think that she will do some good for the United Stated (Estados Unidos! Gracias espanol de clase. ) Anyways, I think she can do some good...

 

She has a background with oil, she knows what's going on in economics she (partially) balances out John McCains no-knowledge of economics whatsoever (he just wants to get in there and bomb Sadaam.) Anyways, as I was saying she should balance him out in SOME of the things he lacks in and I think that she could very well provide valuable information in the oil/petrol/gas companies. She is very well experienced in this matter, and honestly I think if we can get the gas prices to go down that should help our economy out a bit. Yes I know a bit isn't much but honestly it's a start.

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^That's the reason I still feel that McCain's pick wasn't a completely odd move. She's for drilling in areas that are currently off-limits (to save the animals and environment despite the fact that with modern-day technology, this shouldn't be a problem) and I feel that if we can stop depending on foreign oil completely, if only for a decade or even as little as five years, we would have time to rebuild our economy and improve our energy resources to the point of not needing oil (which is entirely possible, people are just too lazy to make a move and start using renewable resources). That would hopefully keep us out of the Middle East for a long while, and would help return the world to a state of normalcy (well, as normal as it was before we f'ed up Iraq).

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