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Kings Island (KI) Discussion Thread

p. 792 - Camp Cedar campground to open in 2021!

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Looks pretty cool, and never look a Giga gift horse in the mouth.

I enjoy B&Ms.

 

That said, I have to confess that the layout doesn't look particularly inspiring, and it's a little surprising they would choose something with a profile somewhat similar to Diamond Back. I would have thought that like Millennium Force vs. Magnum or Fury 325 vs. whatever (Dominator?), they would go for a lower-to-the-ground profile and try to deliver a different kind of ride experience than Diamondback. But maybe there are only so many things you can do at that speed?

 

Anyway, it will be all about the speeds on which it takes these elements. If it ends up being an airtime machine, no one will complain.

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I don’t think it’s showing “hate” to point out that this is a downgrade in every way from the other older B&M Gigas. Fury showed that they can do massive steeper drops and the ride doesn’t have to end 100’ up with a mile long brake run.

 

This will be a fine ride... but when you’re spending this many millions it seems odd to aim for fine rather than “holy f***” like Fury or i305 (admittedly I can see why no one will build another i305 tho).

 

But do you really think Cedar Fair went to B&M and asked for a downgrade?! No. They do their market research and look at ridership and maybe they decided that Fury was too intense (Obviously not for us, but for GP), and decided to make this a little more tame to entice more people to show up.

 

Think about Steel Vengeance at Cedar Point that didn't help their bottom line, maybe because it was too "holy f***".

 

Look all over Facebook at casual park goers. There are tons out there already today saying how it's too much for them and they'll just watch. If you want parks to have money and build more rides for you, then you have to also let them build rides that more people will ride and make money off of!

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I think it’s crazy to suggest that I'M TOO MUCH OF AN IDIOT TO SPELL STEEL VENGEANCE hasn’t helped their bottom line. It’s a huge draw and pulls 2 hour lines all day. It’s known worldwide as the best coaster.

Edited by robbalvey
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It also could've went something like this.

 

"Hey B&M.. we have 25 million dollars to work with. Show was what you got!"

 

B&M worked within the budget they were given.

 

Yea but B&M didn’t have to offer them a weaker drop curvature or this insane brake run. Neither of those two bad choices saved any money lol.

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I've become sick enough of the complainers ... Coaster goes up hill, speeds up going down hill, etc. They're all somewhat similar. They're pretty awesome unless you're looking for something completely different from that. If you have a giga near you, it may not be worth traveling long distances to ride another, but that is no reason not to build more of them. This one's not super interesting to me because I have 2 giga's closer by. A lot of people don't. Have you that call it cookie cutter ever actually ridden a B&M giga? I found I232 and Fury at Carowinds significantly different, and liked both of them. I don't know if I232's hills are taller but they feel like it. Fury is a much faster paced ride.

 

One thing I see is NO MCBR. Maybe they don't want to make a big deal out of that because they can't promise it will never have a trim brake but this is different. Candymonium also will have no true MCBR but a kind of weird heavy brake followed by a banked turn into the final brake. Orion does look a bit short and doesn't seem to be trying to outdo the other giga's, but that has to happen sometime. They still build coasters less than 300 feet you know.

 

It could be a lot worse! It could be some rough ass SLC, Zamperla contraption or something terrible.

 

This hobby has to remain FUN and positive. I can't tell you how much more I've enjoyed our trips and park visits since I stopped counting 'credits' and stopped riding crap! I wish that I could convince all of the enthusiasts to do the same and it would really improve your park time!

 

By my standards that's still kind of negative, but it's better. Re: your "Parks shouldn't be building coasters for enthusiasts" I fully understand my preference isn't the same as their's.

 

* * *

 

Oh snap, CF now will have 4 parks with both hyper and giga, who's next? maybe one with a giga already?

Edited by bill_s
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Well.. First of all: I hate these brake run skyscrapers, too. They are ugly and look unneccessary.

BUT: If brake run and station would be upon a hill and had to be that high (because it is on a hill), wouldn't be Orion just an incredible coaster without complaints?

What I want to say: This thing is great - and has an ugly brake run. But it's still great.

Go live with it and choose to ride the crap out of it or leave the seats for the ones that want to ride.

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I love the theme. I love the colors. This thing is going to look fantastic.

 

I look at Orion like I look at Valravn and Yukon Striker. Two insanely marketable rides with features that the general public is going to eat up. Whether it's the drop angle or the height and the speed, it's something for people to wildly anticipate and maybe even fear just a little bit. But when they get on the ride next year? It's going to be fun and exciting, yet it isn't going to feel like it's trying to kill them. It'll be a hit for your average park guest.

 

My Twitter feed has far more southwest Ohio locals than coaster enthusiasts, and the reaction is universally positive. No one is talking about the brake run or the dictionary definition of a "giga" coaster.

 

And I mention that because the enthusiast side of me does share some of the concerns that have been brought up. I also think this coaster defied my expectations a bit based on how I thought Kings Island would expand and evolve in a long-term planning sense. But I'm not their target audience, and if I want to ride something crazy that might kill me, I'll go do ERT with TPR on bathtub coasters in Poland or something.

 

If there's one thing we can all agree that Kings Island could do better, it's live-streaming. There's potato quality, and then there's Irish potato famine quality...

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I don’t think it’s showing “hate” to point out that this is a downgrade in every way

Yes it is. That very sentence is hateful, obnoxious and stupid. This entire discussion, in fact this entire forum would have been better off without it.

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I think it’s crazy to suggest that I'M TOO MUCH OF AN IDIOT TO SPELL STEEL VENGEANCE hasn’t helped their bottom line. It’s a huge draw and pulls 2 hour lines all day. It’s known worldwide as the best coaster.

There is no denying that swaths of people worldwide consider Steel Vengeance to be the #1 roller coaster in the world. However, Cedar Point received a larger percentage gain in attendance in 2016, the year that Valravn opened, than they did in 2018, when Steel Vengeance opened (2.8% in 2016 vs 2.0% in 2018, according to the TEA Theme Index). I don't think it's too far off for casual park-goers to think that A) Steel Vengeance is a little TOO crazy and B) it's in essence the new and improved version of Mean Streak, which some older people may "have ridden before".

 

EDIT: Just to be clear, I'm NOT suggesting that Cedar Point shouldn't have built Steel Vengeance at all.

 

I think some of us underestimate the appeal of a roller coaster that LOOKS imposing, and monstrous, and scary, to the general public. People dare their friends to ride the biggest and baddest coaster in the park. It's the stuff that casual YouTube viewers look for reactions to. If a scary-looking coaster that happens to be smooth and re-rideable is what the park wants, then that's what the park gets. They certainly know how to run their park better than most of us do.

Edited by A.J.
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My instinct is to just mock these people but if I'm being totally honest I actually almost feel bad for them. It must suck.

 

I always worry that I'll become jaded like this. So far it hasn't happened and I'm optimistic that it never will since I'm still convinced that the sun rises and sets with Millennium F*cking Force but it must honestly suck to get to the point where any coaster that isn't Steel Vengeance or I305 isn't exciting to you. Not every coaster can be the greatest coaster ever built.

 

It's impossible to judge a giga coaster from a POV. We all thought Fury would be like Leviathan and none of us were prepared for what we actually got. That said, let's say that this thing rides pretty much like Leviathan... is that a bad thing?

 

If you picked up Leviathan right now and dropped it at Kings Island, it would probably be the best coaster at Kings Island. Maybe it wouldn't be your number one coaster but if I got to the point where racing along at NINETY MILES PER HOUR with nothing but a lap bar (and possibly an unnecessary seatbelt but, lol) on a super smooth coaster with a THREE HUNDRED foot drop wasn't enough for me then that would actually be really sad.

 

Thankfully I can't even imagine that.

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My instinct is to just mock these people but if I'm being totally honest I actually almost feel bad for them. It must suck.

Look on the bright side... I still feel like the TPR forum is far less toxic than any other roller coaster nerd forum, subreddit, or Facebook Group I've seen. We at least have mostly constructive discussions here since I've tried my hardest to remove the obvious trolls and horrible people.

 

And sure, some people may argue that we are just trying to silence certain opinions (they aren't wrong) but I personally feel there is a HUGE DIFFERENCE between someone who makes constructive arguments and someone who is just being a toxic asshole for the sake of trolling.

 

I don't think we've ever banned anyone from the forum for having a constructive opinion...

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I think it’s crazy to suggest that I'M TOO MUCH OF AN IDIOT TO SPELL STEEL VENGEANCE

 

I love this forum

 

edit: Also, I'm not sure I've said it but this ride looks AWESOME and shout out to whoever said this ride wouldn't get them to Kings Island because as far as I'm concerned this is the ride that is definitely going to get me to finally go to this park. Can't wait.

Edited by boldikus
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^^ Oh, I totally agree with all of that. Normally I'd be piling on those people too but for some reason I woke up feeling nice today.

 

And yeah, this is easily the least-toxic coaster forum I've seen. Sure you have to piss some people off to accomplish that but I mean, it's a privately owned website not a democracy.

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I’m really looking forward to Orion! I’d much rather have a shorter ride that is relentless from start to finish than a ride that gets noticeably slower at the end. And it looks like this is exactly what Orion is! I love Fury, but I think it would be better without the helix. Looks like there are some really good airtime moments too and the turnaround looks like it could be a very forceful element. So yeah I’m psyched for this!

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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I've reached a point where I am happy when a park is building "A" coaster period. I just like when they improve their overall value by adding a new attraction period. I must admit being somebody with no kids when the addition is entirely kid-friendly I am very...……..unexcited but I see the big picture and I see it as good for the park. The details like height, speed, etc. aren't crazy relevant I just like when parks build fun rides.

 

Orion looks absolutely awesome. If Kings Island was my home park I would be absolutely thrilled. I like that it has the big wave turn and some clear elements that distinguish it from the other B&M Gigas. Kings Island was already very appealing as is and now I REALLY want to go there.

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Dont get me wrong, this looks like itll be a great ride, id ride it, itll be fun and id love to have it at my home park. The only part I was agreeing with was that a lot of B&M's seem to be very similar. That said, their cookie cutter is amazing compared to Vekoma's or Arrow's terrible cookie cutter. Wegman's (B&M) vs. Walmart (Vekoma) if you will.

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I don’t think it’s showing “hate” to point out that this is a downgrade in every way from the other older B&M Gigas. Fury showed that they can do massive steeper drops and the ride doesn’t have to end 100’ up with a mile long brake run.

What do you mean? Can you seriously not see that Fury 325's brake run is even longer than this? It also comes in with less speed. They probably could've crammed in another hill on Fury 325 and kept the same brake run design by ridding the flat transfer section immediately after the incline, but I don't see any space on Orion where they could've done the same. It's incline then immediately turn into station here.

 

The brake runs are high like this because they are very efficient, which is a huge factor for the park. In fact, I wouldn't at all be surprised if they're the ones who asked for this design again. Starting the brake run high means you'll have less kinetic energy entering the brakes, and having a flat section first means the brakes won't be working against gravity to slow the train initially. And then of course, the inclined transfer section eliminates the need for drive wheels which are a considerable running cost.

 

Fury 325's brake run is lower but it also has an extra 1300 feet of track to dissipate speed. This thing would come blazing into the brake run if it wasn't elevated.

 

When you are going to be operating hundreds of cycles every day, using gravity (which is free, btw) instead of extreme braking force and electricity is extremely attractive to a park.

 

Less cost to run also means higher ROI, just the same as how someone possibly did the market research and saw that Fury 325 was too intense and wanted to increase the appeal of this ride by turning down the intensity. It's all about money.

 

Good lord, I'm glad this thing actually has a 300ft drop so we don't have to have THAT discussion.

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I am fully supporting another Giga in my home state! The layout look great. Kings Island is already a great park and Orion only helps to improve the park. It should be a big hit with the public and will make me visit next summer.

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I have looked at the ride again and it will be a fun ride. The discussion about hyper and or giga is whatever to me now. KI Fans you have a brand new thrill coaster that will be a lot of fun. To answer the point of Fury with the long brake run, I feel part of the reason in most cases is obviously slow it down but to allow it to keep moving so the trains will not stack. Obviously based off current operations it still stacks but thats another topic.

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Oh - And you all should have known that Cedar Point wouldn't actually let Kings Island get anything that would outshine them!

 

Except with Banshee

 

In all seriousness. This looks amazing and I can't wait to ride. Cedar Fair has done an amazing job with Kings Island.

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Except with Banshee

 

 

Banshee wishes it could be as awesome as Raptor!

 

(I like Banshee, but no contest for me!)

 

 

This giga looks like great fun. I don't love the ending, but the rest of it looks awesome. Not a big fan of Diamondback, so i'm excited to have this at the park to pair up with Banshee, Mystic Timbers and Beast. Quite a collection they have now compared to pre-CF days!

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