Kings Island (KI) Discussion Thread

[RAWKIN_coaster38]

^I can completely understand why it underwhelms based on stats, but the ride experience will change everyone's mind. It's easy to say "oh it isn't that tall, long, or fast" but once people ride it they will actually understand that the experience brings something that The Beast is mostly lacking, crazy directional changes and airtime.

People will definitely compare Beast to Mystic Timbers, as they seem to compare any two wooden coasters (I swear I heard someone compare El Toro to RT at some point, and RMC conversions to wooden coasters ), but hopefully over time will see Mystic Timbers and Beast for how different (but still great in their own ways) they are.

 

I could be wrong, but I envision that Mystic Timbers might give us a surprisingly quick and air-time filled ride. I admit I haven't been staring at the photos, because I want to be surprised when I ride it (including the shed), but some of the humps looked promising. I remember when Gold Striker opened, we had high hopes, but it blew even our highest hopes away. I have my sneaking suspicion that this coaster might turn out like that too.

The newer GCIs have really outperformed the older ones for me, with the exception being Thunderhead.

 

If this rides anything like Gold Striker, Prowler, American Thunder, White Lightning, or Thunderhead, it will be amazing.

 

I know the GP will compare any wooden coasters, but my point is that after they ride Mystic Timbers they will get over the fact that it isn't as long, tall, and fast. The ride will feel much more crazy and out of control than the majority of The Beast does.

 

I don't think it will ever have the local hardcore fan base that The Beast has though. I've never seen a coaster as adored by the public at any park. Kennywood's Jack Rabbit (or all of their coasters really) are one of the few that seem to resonate so strongly with average guests.

Ah I beg to differ about Thunderhead. Maybe we just hit it on a good day, but that was our favorite coaster at Dollywood. It just felt so out of control and downright fun!

 

I totally agree with you on your points. I feel the majoring of people will go into it thinking "It's smaller than The Beast" and come off it going, "WHAT JUST HAPPENED?? "

[boldikus]

I think what everyone is forgetting is that you can't judge a ride until you ride it. You can sit here all day and say/think its gonna be this or its gonna be that but someone is always completely wrong. Just go back and look at posts when older coasters were being built. There are actual posts about how both Toro and Skyrush would have no airtime, and that Fury would be another boring B&M. And we saw how they all turned out. Its pointless to speculate and especially to argue about it. The thing will be up and running in two months - or less than that now? Patience, my friends.

[RAWKIN_coaster38]

Should we bring the boat into this conversation? Or maybe cargo shorts.

 

But really, I don't think we're arguing, just being optimistic since GCI's track record has been pretty solid lately. I'm not about to look through the pictures and say which element is going to deliver what forces, but I'm definitely looking forward to this ride. Plus Ohio is getting very very boring this time of year. So anything to look forward to is a good thing in my book.

[SFOG1991]

^I can completely understand why it underwhelms based on stats, but the ride experience will change everyone's mind. It's easy to say "oh it isn't that tall, long, or fast" but once people ride it they will actually understand that the experience brings something that The Beast is mostly lacking, crazy directional changes and airtime.

People will definitely compare Beast to Mystic Timbers, as they seem to compare any two wooden coasters (I swear I heard someone compare El Toro to RT at some point, and RMC conversions to wooden coasters ), but hopefully over time will see Mystic Timbers and Beast for how different (but still great in their own ways) they are.

 

I could be wrong, but I envision that Mystic Timbers might give us a surprisingly quick and air-time filled ride. I admit I haven't been staring at the photos, because I want to be surprised when I ride it (including the shed), but some of the humps looked promising. I remember when Gold Striker opened, we had high hopes, but it blew even our highest hopes away. I have my sneaking suspicion that this coaster might turn out like that too.

The newer GCIs have really outperformed the older ones for me, with the exception being Thunderhead.

 

If this rides anything like Gold Striker, Prowler, American Thunder, White Lightning, or Thunderhead, it will be amazing.

 

I know the GP will compare any wooden coasters, but my point is that after they ride Mystic Timbers they will get over the fact that it isn't as long, tall, and fast. The ride will feel much more crazy and out of control than the majority of The Beast does.

 

I don't think it will ever have the local hardcore fan base that The Beast has though. I've never seen a coaster as adored by the public at any park. Kennywood's Jack Rabbit (or all of their coasters really) are one of the few that seem to resonate so strongly with average guests.

Ah I beg to differ about Thunderhead. Maybe we just hit it on a good day, but that was our favorite coaster at Dollywood. It just felt so out of control and downright fun!

 

I totally agree with you on your points. I feel the majoring of people will go into it thinking "It's smaller than The Beast" and come off it going, "WHAT JUST HAPPENED?? "

I might of worded that in a confusing way but I was actually saying Thunderhead is amazing and one of GCIs best. I'm saying their newer creations are best, but Thunderhead is one of their older ones that is also amazing. I think it's one of the best woodies ever built and honestly it's probably the most intense GCI. The snappy changes in direction are wild, especially with the airtime squeezed into them as well.

[Hilltopper39]

I'm just gonna say it - this coaster looks like an AWESOME addition to the park and I think from a wood coaster perspective, it will complement the Beast wonderfully.

 

I have a feeling this thing's going to dish out some stellar rides, especially at night!!

 

Hoping to maybe check it out this year!

 

I agree with you from a coaster fans perspective but I am curious how well the ride will be received by the average park guest like 3 or 4 or 10 years down the road. I could see how some people might see this ride as "kinda like the Beast but way shorter/slower/not as good". Especially considering how iconic the Beast is to that park and the people who visit it on an annual basis.

 

I may be completely and totally wrong here but it was a thought I had back when this was announced.

 

I have thought of this as well...

 

I think that it's a given that this coaster will give some phenomenal rides (both day and night) during the first couple years of operations. But as we know, there are a lot of wooden coasters that simply don't age well.

 

So do you think that MT will be great for a couple of years and then turn into a rough crap-fest after 5+ years? (ala - SoB, Apocalypse, Hurler, Voyage, Mean Streak (w/o Coasterbills technique), Texas Giant (old version), Rattler (old version), etc)

 

Or do you have confidence that this coaster will age like fine wine to where you won't want to be speed dialing the chiropractor after the first drop? (Ala - RFII, Prowler, Silver Comet, Comet, Gold Striker, etc)

 

I'm not really talking about maintenance or how well the ride ages, personally I think it's going to be a great ride and will age just fine, but does that matter? My thought is in most cases when a park invests in a major new attraction it is usually something that is bigger/better, or a different type of experience than what is currently offered at the park. I can't really think of a past example where a new attraction was smaller/similar to an existing attraction especially when the existing attraction is something as loved by the fan base as the Beast is.

 

This might be the first attraction I can think of that is loved by enthusiasts but maybe thought of as kinda average by the general public haha.

 

Full disclosure, again I may be completely wrong here and the ride is a huge hit for a long time, holler back at me in like 7 years when someone knows for sure.

[Philrad71]

^ Ahhhh...I see where you are coming from. That's a good point that I hadn't thought about.

 

I know that there are probably no remaining marketing employees or design engineers that worked on the SoB project currently under the Cedar Fair regime, but a small part of me wonders if that travesty may have given CF second thoughts about going bigger, taller and faster here? Like they know Beast is the king of the park so why try and outdo it and just make a fun coaster that provides a similar, yet slightly different type of experience over The Beast?

 

Dunno...but like you said...we'll know how this coaster will settle into the park in another seven years or so.

[coasterbill]

So do you think that MT will be great for a couple of years and then turn into a rough crap-fest after 5+ years? (ala - SoB, Apocalypse, Hurler, Voyage, Mean Streak (w/o Coasterbills technique), Texas Giant (old version), Rattler (old version), etc)

 

You bring up a fair point, but in all fairness...

 

SoB - Let's ignore this dumpster fire

Apocalypse - It's at SFMM... no further explanation is needed (though the fact that it's in the desert probably isn't helping matters).

Hurler - PTC Trains

Voyage - PTC Trains

Mean Streak (w/o Coasterbills technique) - PTC Trains and it's a Dinn

Texas Giant (old version)- PTC Trains and it's a Dinn

Rattler (old version) - PTC Trains, and it was built by the people that built White Canyon and Son of Beast... lol

 

You have to really suck at maintaining coasters to let a GCI running Millennium Flyer trains go to hell. It's happened of course but it's hard to do... especially in a seasonal park with a mild climate and a whole offseason where they can perform track work. I'm optimistic.

[storms555]

I don't know....I know its not good to judge before trying a ride like already said on this thread,but the according to the small POV I seen of it...it looks just "meh". Thats not because its not super tall or fast but because it looks.....flat. As in shallow looking drops. The main drop isn't even a straight down one. But thats just me,I guess im more of an out-and-back coaster person oppose to a twister coaster. Twister coasters dont give me a big thrill like out and backs do. However it seems Intamin makes pretty good twisters. I guess its because the twists actually whip you around at an out of control feeling oppose to just swaying side to side some what gracefully....

[coasterbill]

I don't know....I know its not good to judge before trying a ride like already said on this thread

 

Nope

 

but the according to the small POV I seen of it...it looks just "meh". Thats not because its not super tall or fast but because it looks.....flat. As in shallow looking drops.

 

See above

 

The main drop isn't even a straight down one

 

The Valravn style dive through a cave is in the shed... seriously, what do you expect from a GCI?

 

But thats just me,I guess im more of an out-and-back coaster person

 

Well then I have great news...

 

[storms555]

When I said straight down i meant a non-curved drop in general. Like on most coasters. I didn't mean just a Valravn like drop. And now i see the pic and yea it seems out and back i just guess in the POV the drops seemed really shallow.

[prozach626]

I can't really think of a past example where a new attraction was smaller/similar to an existing attraction especially when the existing attraction is something as loved by the fan base as the Beast is.

American Thunder vs. Boss and Screaming Eagle. Also in the same park, Boomerang Vs. Ninja and Batman in comparison to a looper. If that comparison doesn't suit your fancy, Boomerang vs. Mr. Freeze as a shuttle coaster. Both American Thunder and (sadly) Boomerang have been well received by guests. I do get what you're saying, but I think it will hold up just fine. People see more coasters and think that more is better. They will understand the differences once they ride the coasters. I could actually see it as a pretty good queue argument for a lot of guests: Which do you like better; Mystic Timbers or Beast?

 

This park has a great line-up and this coaster just made it even better. If Kings Island ever receives a Fury-like Giga, I'll have a hard time ever going anywhere else within a 4-5 hour drive.

[jynx242]

Most GCI's have the curved, swooping drop and they are pretty amazing. I think that this looks pretty great and I cannot wait to give it some night rides.

 

I know that Thunderhead, Prowler and Lightning Racers give amazing rides during the day and epic rides at night. I think that the after dark rides will definitely let people know that this coaster is related to the Beast.

[Hilltopper39]

I can't really think of a past example where a new attraction was smaller/similar to an existing attraction especially when the existing attraction is something as loved by the fan base as the Beast is.

American Thunder vs. Boss and Screaming Eagle. Also in the same park, Boomerang Vs. Ninja and Batman in comparison to a looper. If that comparison doesn't suit your fancy, Boomerang vs. Mr. Freeze as a shuttle coaster. Both American Thunder and (sadly) Boomerang have been well received by guests. I do get what you're saying, but I think it will hold up just fine. People see more coasters and think that more is better. They will understand the differences once they ride the coasters. I could actually see it as a pretty good queue argument for a lot of guests: Which do you like better; Mystic Timbers or Beast?

 

This park has a great line-up and this coaster just made it even better. If Kings Island ever receives a Fury-like Giga, I'll have a hard time ever going anywhere else within a 4-5 hour drive.

 

 

The Ninja/Batman/Boomerang/Freeze example doesn't really work to me because you've got a sit down, and inverted, a lift hill shuttle and a launched shuttle, so they're all a little bit different. Yeah Boss and American Thunder is a pretty good example that came to mind after I posted this, but with that example how do those two rides compare in popularity to Screamin Eagle after being open for a decade. I guess that's probably a good comparison even though I have a feeling the Beast at is probably more popular at Kings Island than Screamin Eagle is at SFstl.

 

Cornball Express and Hoosier Hurricane at Indiana Beach which is another example I thought of. I've only been to IB once but when I did Cornball Express was a walk on while Hoosier Hurricane had a decent wait even though to me Cornball is a much better ride, not really the same thing but a comparison none the less.

[coasterbill]

It remains my firm belief that nobody outside of the coaster enthusiast community cares about these types of things.

[prozach626]

^ I think you're right, which is why I believe Mystic Timbers will be well received. It's a different roller coaster in a different area which offers a different ride experience.

 

 

The Ninja/Batman/Boomerang/Freeze example doesn't really work to me because you've got a sit down, and inverted, a lift hill shuttle and a launched shuttle, so they're all a little bit different. Yeah Boss and American Thunder is a pretty good example that came to mind after I posted this, but with that example how do those two rides compare in popularity to Screamin Eagle after being open for a decade. I guess that's probably a good comparison even though I have a feeling the Beast at is probably more popular at Kings Island than Screamin Eagle is at SFstl.

 

Cornball Express and Hoosier Hurricane at Indiana Beach which is another example I thought of. I've only been to IB once but when I did Cornball Express was a walk on while Hoosier Hurricane had a decent wait even though to me Cornball is a much better ride, not really the same thing but a comparison none the less.

From what some of the staff claims, Boss is extremely popular, despite it being rough. It has one of the highest capacities and almost always holds somewhat of a line, while the remainder of the park can be station wait/walk on. Meanwhile, American Thunder has still been very well received.

[Hilltopper39]

It remains my firm belief that nobody outside of the coaster enthusiast community cares about these types of things.

 

I agree with you, but I also firmly believe that non-coaster enthusiasts in SE Ohio who visit Kings Island on the reg absolutely love the Beast with a passion unlike most all other coasters at all other parks so it will be interesting to see if they care about a new wooden coaster as much as their old favorite.

 

And again, I'm not knockin Mystic Timbers at all, I think it's gonna be freakin great, hopefully 10 years from now everyone else will to.

[KIJester]

You have to really suck at maintaining coasters to let a GCI running Millennium Flyer trains go to hell. It's happened of course but it's hard to do... especially in a seasonal park with a mild climate and a whole offseason where they can perform track work. I'm optimistic.

 

I can tell you firsthand that when I lived in Tampa back in '98, BGT opened Gwazi and it was SUPER smooth the first few years with the PTC trains. Over the years it became more and more rough until they FINALLY decided (in 2011, I think) to replace them with MF trains and while it was somewhat of an improvement, it by no means made the coaster any more enjoyable. I made the trip back down to BGT in Feb 2014 and it was still running just as rough as it was prior to the MF trains so this (and guest surveys probably) is more than likely why they ended up closing it the following year.

 

I am optimistic as well for MT and only time will tell but I just don't want MT to have the same fate as Gwazi.

[RollerManic]

All three wooden coasters at SFStL are incredibly popular. Screamin' Eagle sees pretty similar numbers to American Thunder during the day (at night, I find American Thunder greatly outdoes Eagle in ridership). They aren't consistent, but can reach 1 hr waits at the same time. The Boss more depends on the day, but stays pretty consistent throughout the day. I have seen it hold 2hr lines on crowded days and plenty of 1 hr lines in the summer.

[coasterbill]

I can tell you firsthand that when I lived in Tampa back in '98, BGT opened Gwazi and it was SUPER smooth the first few years with the PTC trains. Over the years it became more and more rough until they FINALLY decided (in 2011, I think) to replace them with MF trains and while it was somewhat of an improvement, it by no means made the coaster any more enjoyable. I made the trip back down to BGT in Feb 2014 and it was still running just as rough as it was prior to the MF trains so this (and guest surveys probably) is more than likely why they ended up closing it the following year.

 

I am optimistic as well for MT and only time will tell but I just don't want MT to have the same fate as Gwazi.

 

Coasters can run great with PTC trains, they just take a toll on the track because they can't turn for sh*t so coasters that run them (especially when they feature a lot of laterals) generally become rough and go to crap within a few years unless a park is willing to go above and beyond and spend a ton of money and time re-tracking and maintaining them.

 

In the case of Gwazi, the ride wasn't improved when they put those trains on it because they didn't focus enough on re-tracking it (which they should have since the track was in rough shape thanks to those crappy PTC trains). With Ghostrider, they did a proper renovation with new trains and new track and by all accounts it worked wonders.

 

There aren't many examples of coasters that started out running Millennium Flyer trains and have gone to crap. Usually if a coaster runs Millennium Flyer trains and sucks it's because it used to run PTC trains and they f*cked up the track.

[KICoasterkev]

Here's a nice little article about Mystic Timbers, from the Journal-News

http://www.journal-news.com/news/kings-island-mystic-timbers-gets-national-attention-before-first-ride/HxxRf7fPzWtHIdJQUNDzqL/

[ToNC]

Mystic Timbers is going to give on heck of a night ride. Hold on there Beast, the new guy might just give you a run for your money.

 

I personally found a Prowler (WOF) night ride better then the Beast one. Give it about 3-4 years to get the awesome GCI roughness and it will whip you around through that forest.

[sirloindude]

Of course Prowler gives a better night ride than the Beast. It's a substantially better coaster. *ducks*

 

[Voyager6442]

The night rides I had on the Beast in 2014 were never-to-be forgotten. I can't wait to get more of them.

[KICoasterkev]

Foundation and footers have been poured for the new Island Smokehouse restaurant in Soak City! Picture from Chef Nathan @KICHEFNATE Twitter.

[rba13]

I found an architect plan in a cylinder tube in one of the canoes. It looks like it is a plan to expand the park. Anyone know if someone is missing it?