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Kings Island (KI) Discussion Thread

p. 792 - Camp Cedar campground to open in 2021!

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I personally think people tend to associate forcefulness with pacing.

Totally agree. I've always thought "forceless" was a very inaccurate term. Pacing is what really separates the good coasters from the great coasters.

 

Yes, Banshee's elements are quite large, which could translate to slow pacing, but at the same time, this will be the fastest inverted coaster in the world at 68 mph, and that speed won't even be reached until the bottom of the batwing. If nothing else, the speed alone will probably give a nice thrill and will hopefully help with the pacing of the ride.

 

Personally, the new restraints don't bother me that much (tightening issue aside). I'm not a stickler for having that little bit of wiggle room that most of us here seem to want. Most of the time I can feel airtime whether I'm actually moving around in the seat or not.

 

As a long-time visitor of Kings Island (I'm practically a local there), I'm VERY much looking forward to having Banshee regardless since now Kings Island will finally have a quality B&M invert that I can ride over and over.

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As a long-time visitor of Kings Island (I'm practically a local there), I'm VERY much looking forward to having Banshee regardless since now Kings Island will finally have a quality B&M invert that I can ride over and over.

 

Precisely. It's great to see Cedar Fair and Kings Island investing so much in a fine coaster like Banshee. Not only is it a nice looking coaster, it will definitely improve the capacity of the park. Kings Island gets nearly the same attendance Cedar Point gets, but lacks the large amount of capacity machines the Point has. I'm very excited to see this ride once it opens in Spring, it will have such a positive impact.

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Whether Banshee provides mind numbing grey out forces or not, there is no doubt in my mind it is going to be a great Ride. It seems to be getting so many negative reviews, and its not even finished yet. I for one am looking forward to it immensely.

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Whether Banshee provides mind numbing grey out forces or not, there is no doubt in my mind it is going to be a great Ride. It seems to be getting so many negative reviews, and its not even finished yet. I for one am looking forward to it immensely.

 

Getting a grey out doesn't make for a good ride. People are weird if they think that. I don't need to feel like I just got out of a larger washer and dryer when I get off a ride in order to say is good. I like speed and smoothness and so does most people that aren't on TPR. Not one friend of mine liked any Batman clones over Raptor. Not one. Everyone got off saying how rough it was. Only here, do I see the praise for it.

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What makes you say the general public doesn't want that? Have any of the Batman clones been closed down due to declining ridership?

 

I don't see this happening in the foreseeable future. The rides are still very popular, they're as smooth as ever and are generally very reliable. Plus, since most Six Flags parks already have them they can't even move them to other parks.

 

Sorry but I see no point in this at all, they're still great rides. In my opinion the lines have just gotten shorter because the parks keep adding more and more rides so people don't need to keep re-riding the same ones as often throughout the course of the day. Pretty much every 10-20 year old ride at a Six Flags park has a shorter line now than it did when it opened.

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^Except Raging Bull. or V2. or SFGAm Viper...

 

That's why I said "pretty much every ride", because there are always exceptions especially with hypercoasters like Raging Bull because as long as a ride is the tallest coaster in the park people will always be drawn to it.

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I want to apologize for contributing to all this talk of "forceless" versus "forceful", I have my own opinions but obviously it's very subjective and like it's been pointed out, no coaster is actually "forceless". But I'm getting a little sick of all the talk about which coaster belongs to which category. It's just reaaalllly getting beaten to death at this point. There are way more exciting, great inverts than slow boring ones, end of story. Let's hope Banshee belongs to the former (though I highly doubt it, but I'd love to be wrong). And something as intense as a Batman clone won't be for everyone anyway. I don't get why, but fine. Not that Batman is my favorite invert anyway, that belongs to Talon, which has a longer ride time while retaining a tight, compact layout and a decent mix of forces.

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Not that Batman is my favorite invert anyway, that belongs to Talon, which has a longer ride time while retaining a tight, compact layout and a decent mix of forces.

Talon was way better than I thought it would be with one of the best pacings I've ever experienced on a ride and with some forceful moments too (the helix after the immelmann and the turn after the corkscrew). I think it's a great invert.

 

Not one friend of mine liked any Batman clones over Raptor. Not one. Everyone got off saying how rough it was. Only here, do I see the praise for it.

Am I the only one who has never experienced a rough ride on a batman clone? I'm not doubting anyone's word but it's weird that I've always found them so smooth. This year I rode the one at Great Adventure (in the back and in the front) and it was 100% silky smooth, not one big of headbanging whatsoever and it is 20 YEARS OLD now. I found that impressive.

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As for your question of any Batman clones being closed down, that's sort of silly as ridership has to do with capacity, and they are still running at capacity as are most major rides at Six Flags parks, however if you did a line wait study of the average wait to go on those particular rides, they are definitely not as popular as they once were. From what I have seen, the "forceless" B&M rides have had a much less measured drop off so far. We'll see if that stays, but it is interesting none the less and something that parks do examine.

 

I don't really think this is a fair argument to make, though. In general, most Batman clones reside in parks that have since built multiple signature attractions, so these coasters aren't main draws anymore. However, the larger, less forceful inverts, like Silver Bullet, Afterburn, Flight Deck, ect. are still some of the signature attractions in their respective parks, and therefore have retained more of their ridership.

 

Heh, I'll actually fully agree that this isn't exactly a fair argument to make, but stating that "declining ridership" would be the reason that a park might want to go with a less intense experience than a more intense one isn't exactly the argument that I would have put forth. I was just looking at a way that you might try to defeat that argument.

 

I'd suggest looking at the opening of Countdown to Extinction at Animal Kingdom or the Indiana Jones Adventure at Disneyland to perhaps discover a more realistic reason that parks don't want the rides to be super intense. In both of those cases, the parks opened with the rides VERY intense, but were able to program the rides operation differently to bring the intensity down. In particular, Indiana Jones was been insanely popular since day 1... why would Disney want to bring down the intensity of the ride, and did it have any noticeable impact on the ridership?

 

Then, correlate that information with the time frame that B&M started building rides with less and less insane forces, and...

 

I think you'll come up with a much better line of reasoning behind why B&M started cutting back on the insane forces, and why the parks would want that.

 

(by the way, not that I mind the insane forces myself. I'll take a Batman clone over any B&M built since 2000 any day. But I totally understand why parks wouldn't.)

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You bring up a good point but correlation does not imply causation. I think the fact that the parks have built bigger and more impressive looking rides is the reason for the decline in line length of the (still very popular) Batman rides. There are plenty of intense B&M coasters around the country that are still incredibly popular.

 

If the GP always preferred "forceless" rides to forceful rides, how do you explain the popularity of Intamin rides? Surely everyone in line isn't an enthusiast, so I think it's unfair to say that the GP prefers forceless rides. Forceful Intamin rides like Kingda Ka, Top Thrill Dragster, Maverick, El Toro and Bizarro always have huge lines even though there are a lot of other less forceful rides for people to ride in their respective parks. In many cases these rides are the most popular or one of the most popular rides in their parks.

 

The Batman rides are still popular, but in every park they're in there have been newer, taller, faster rides built that cut down on the line length a little bit. Still, I highly doubt any of those rides are going anywhere anytime soon and I doubt the fact that they're forceful is a negative factor in their decreased line lengths.

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If the GP always preferred "forceless" rides to forceful rides, how do you explain the popularity of Intamin rides? Surely everyone in line isn't an enthusiast, so I think it's unfair to say that the GP prefers forceless rides.

 

Like I said, look up what Disney changed with their rides where they could simply change the programming up to change their forces above, and I think you'll find the *real* key over why *parks* prefer so-called 'forceless" rides.

 

It's very similar to the reasons that Kings Island has the space to put Banshee to begin with.

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A lot of my friends who aren't coaster enthusiasts cry and scream on rides like the Hersheypark Comet or Lakeside Cyclone - I don't think the perceived "intensity" of a coaster really matters. It's a giant structure of wood (or steel), it's loud, and people scream on it.

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The Batman rides are still popular, but in every park they're in there have been newer, taller, faster rides built that cut down on the line length a little bit. Still, I highly doubt any of those rides are going anywhere anytime soon and I doubt the fact that they're forceful is a negative factor in their decreased line lengths.

 

Good points and I agree with you on most points, but there is a minor factor I feel you have overlooked: re-rideability. Most people need a break after a very intense ride, whereas on a lesser intense one they might run back around and get in line for another go. Granted, many people treat amusement park rides as one-and-done per visit, so this is probably not a huge factor, but it is something that probably does contribute to some extent.

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^Assuming the GP does enjoy riding coasters, do they need a bigger break than the one provided by waiting in line to ride again after an intense ride? If I think of my mom, for instance, she was dead after riding batman (at great adventure) but then she doesn't really like coasters overall. For those who do, is it really a need for them to have such pauses? Because unless there is nobody in line and you go again without leaving your seat there will be, at least, a 3min (or more) break between rides, just by leaving the place, getting back to the queue, sitting and waiting until the train is dispatched and, in most cases, climbing the lift hill.

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At SFMM, if you ride green lantern first, Batman will seem pretty forceless. And the GP will wait hours for that green mess.

 

I get it. You ride Green Lantern first to put yourself in a coma so you don't need to spend a whole day at SFMM.

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Comparing all the Batman clones I've been on, SFGAm's is the roughest and Sea World San Antonio's Great White is the smoothest. SFSt.L's is the tamest and SFFT's Goliath is the most intense one. There are some difference between them.

Interesting, I thought SFFT's Goliath was the lamest. The most intense, I believe, is SFOG's Batman. Probably due to the constant high head and humidity there. But honestly I haven't had a rough ride on a B&M invert. Backwards Batman smacked me around a little bit but that's because I was in the very back row. And it was backwards.

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