Jump to content
  TPR Home | Parks | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube | Instagram 

Kings Island (KI) Discussion Thread

p. 792 - Camp Cedar campground to open in 2021!

Recommended Posts

by rcjp » Sun May 26, 2013 1:24 pm

 

 

 

dumakey1212 wrote:This may be a stupid question, but would they ever build gigas with inversions? If not, why wouldn't they?

 

 

I have the same question! I would love to see someone building a giga looping coaster but I'm not really seeing that happening and I don't really know why. It's been quite a long time since the world's fastest/tallest coaster had inversions. Let's just hope for someone to come up with such an idea. It would be awesome!

 

I don't think it's a stupid question: My take on it is that when parks build large roller coasters, in this case one up to or higher than 300 feet tall, their intention is for riders to experience a sense of speed and the dropping sensation. For a 300 foot tall looping roller coaster, the inversions would have to be quite large and take away from the sense of speed or change the pace of the ride from what they are trying to offer. Personally, I prefer a ride with large drops versus rides with more inversions. It's ideal for me when a ride has a nice combination of long drops and large inversions, that's why why Griffon is my favorite.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 19.8k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

My visit this past weekend was great, even with Saturday being very busy and me missing out on FL until Sunday.    I went into Orion not having followed its construction or watched a POV or even

Get over it man.  You've made your point and we get it; it's silly that this park did not do a Winterfest-lite.  Make the 8 hour drive to KD if you want to experience that, just like all of us with KD

At the risk of veering off topic, people are just incredibly selective in what causes of death they choose to care about. People only care if it's high-profile, tragic accident, something new and scar

Posted Images

by rcjp » Sun May 26, 2013 1:24 pm

 

 

 

dumakey1212 wrote:This may be a stupid question, but would they ever build gigas with inversions? If not, why wouldn't they?

 

 

I have the same question! I would love to see someone building a giga looping coaster but I'm not really seeing that happening and I don't really know why. It's been quite a long time since the world's fastest/tallest coaster had inversions. Let's just hope for someone to come up with such an idea. It would be awesome!

 

I don't think it's a stupid question: My take on it is that when parks build large roller coasters, in this case one up to or higher than 300 feet tall, their intention is for riders to experience a sense of speed and the dropping sensation. For a 300 foot tall looping roller coaster, the inversions would have to be quite large and take away from the sense of speed or change the pace of the ride from what they are trying to offer. Personally, I prefer a ride with large drops versus rides with more inversions. It's ideal for me when a ride has a nice combination of long drops and large inversions, that's why why Griffon is my favorite.

 

It's funny because I was just thinking about the Intamin Megalite's like Piraten, after the first drop, that second hill under the lift would be perfect for a corkscrew, zero g roll-esque element.

 

Then after the airtime hill that follows, go around the left turn into a barrel roll where that twisting bunny hop is, and then finish the ride like a normal Megalite.

 

2 inversions and an airtime filled ride, seems awesome.

Link to post
Share on other sites
You guys seem to be forgetting that while Intamin rides are fun, they are a maintenance nightmare.

 

Intamin is a maintenance nightmare well if you think you can make a 10/12,000 horsepower hydraulic motor launch a multi-ton train perfectly every time or have a single cable tow a multi-ton train up a 300+ foot hill perfectly every time I'm sure Intamin would love to have your expertise in their company. I love how enthusiast love to rag on Intamin yet they are always at the top of the coaster rankings for them to be such are horrible company it sure hasn't stopped amusement parks all over the world from buying them just look at 2013 there are 8 Intamins to 2 B&M and with that said...

 

I am hoping KI get's an Intamin Giga or a longer more bad a$$ version of Maverick!!!

Link to post
Share on other sites

I am hoping KI get's an Intamin Giga or a longer more bad a$$ version of Maverick!!!

 

An I-305 clone would be great. A combination of I-305 and Maverick would be great. Probably impossible to have the 300 ft drop go past 90 degrees, but maybe one of the subsequent hills could. A 200 foot BM invert would also be great.

Link to post
Share on other sites
This may be a stupid question, but would they ever build gigas with inversions? If not, why wouldn't they?

I believe in TPR's interview with B&M, they said that they can do it, it's just that none of the parks have decided to build one with an inversion.

Link to post
Share on other sites

It seem like everyone is predicting that Kings Islands "Project 2014" is either going to be

 

a) an Intamin or B&M Giga or

 

b) a B&M Dive Machine

 

 

I however am going to throw this idea out there....it has been long rumoured that B&M is ready to try their hand at building a launched coaster. Perhaps "Project 2014" is that first foray into launched coasters for the company.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Was at the park this morning. Windseeker, Drop Zone, and Delerium were all not operating due to wind. It was NOT windy at all. I'm guessing Cedar Fair has a new wind policy for rides over so high?

Our new coaster was taking shape. Footers are higher and they were doing a lot of work on the hill down the valley. No pictures were taken.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Was at the park this morning. Windseeker, Drop Zone, and Delerium were all not operating due to wind. It was NOT windy at all. I'm guessing Cedar Fair has a new wind policy for rides over so high?

Our new coaster was taking shape. Footers are higher and they were doing a lot of work on the hill down the valley. No pictures were taken.

 

There might not be wind on the ground, but 300 feet up, it could be a hurricane.

Link to post
Share on other sites
I however am going to throw this idea out there....it has been long rumoured that B&M is ready to try their hand at building a launched coaster. Perhaps "Project 2014" is that first foray into launched coasters for the company.

 

I know it wasn't exactly all them, but Hulk...

 

As for B&M / launched, if the rumors about this thing being BIG are true, I wouldn't expect to see it as a huge B&M launched ride. B&M is generally a more conseravative company, so I would expect their first launched ride to be significantly smaller so they can feel comfortable working out the bugs.

 

Could be totally wrong, but I just don't see it.

Link to post
Share on other sites
As for B&M / launched, if the rumors about this thing being BIG are true, I wouldn't expect to see it as a huge B&M launched ride. B&M is generally a more conseravative company, so I would expect their first launched ride to be significantly smaller so they can feel comfortable working out the bugs.

 

There's really no point for them to start out with a smaller ride, they already know how to make a big coaster, so there's no problem there, just build what the first buyer asks for.

 

Making launch for a smaller coaster won't be any different than making a launch for a bigger coaster (unless you want it faster than 120km/h) it just needs to be longer to gain the speed, but on the technical side it's all the same.

 

If B&M would do a launch they would buy LSM motors, it's very easy to find a good supplier of those nowadays, and they showed with Krake that they already has the design ready to integrate the magnetic fins into the track and vehicles.

 

It's gonna be interesting to see if they will do the programming themselves or outsource it, for their first magnetic launch.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

^ I also believe they would choose LSMs and I also thought about Krake's magnetic brakes. I'm just not quite sure if it would adapt to other designs of coaster as krake's trains seem to be quite tall compared to other types of trains (such as sitting). And that means it is a bit further from the track which allows them to put the magnets (where the brake fins go through) above the place where the drive tires are when the train goes over them. This might be a small detail ro just an impression, though.

 

Kumba-rollercoasters-33402597-570-428.jpg.1e26b53445d4f29727b620027c3a6580.jpg

heide-park-besucher-begeistert-von-der-krake.jpg.0091c8633f599803b02c96c4d3de2bce.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites
There's really no point for them to start out with a smaller ride, they already know how to make a big coaster, so there's no problem there, just build what the first buyer asks for.

 

Making launch for a smaller coaster won't be any different than making a launch for a bigger coaster (unless you want it faster than 120km/h) it just needs to be longer to gain the speed, but on the technical side it's all the same.

 

I don't know... at least what it seems is the larger the launch, the more problems the ride has.

 

Are there any B&M rides that anyone can think of that had a ton of problems opening, and again, are there any B&M rides people can think of that that have considerable downtime regularly? I can't think of any. Everything they do screams reliability, and that is the exact opposite thing that I see with launches.

 

While you build whatever a park asks for, if you think that particular design might change the public perception of your company, it suddenly becomes more valuable to not make a ride and keep that reputation intact.

Link to post
Share on other sites
As for B&M / launched, if the rumors about this thing being BIG are true, I wouldn't expect to see it as a huge B&M launched ride. B&M is generally a more conseravative company, so I would expect their first launched ride to be significantly smaller so they can feel comfortable working out the bugs.

 

There's really no point for them to start out with a smaller ride, they already know how to make a big coaster, so there's no problem there, just build what the first buyer asks for.

 

Making launch for a smaller coaster won't be any different than making a launch for a bigger coaster (unless you want it faster than 120km/h) it just needs to be longer to gain the speed, but on the technical side it's all the same.

I would have to disagree.

 

If you look at most of the models is very much a ease in in recent history. The stand ups and inverts are a different story. But Tatsu & SkyScraper are certainly a step up from Air & Superman. SheiKra & Griffon were a big step up from Oblivion and its Korean brother. And most recently we've seen that Ratpor was very conservative compared to X-Flight, Swarm, and GateKeeper.

 

B&M definitely does like to ease into their new products with something forceless and rather unremarkable into something more dramatic.

Link to post
Share on other sites
I'm just not quite sure if it would adapt to other designs of coaster as krake's trains seem to be quite tall compared to other types of trains (such as sitting). And that means it is a bit further from the track which allows them to put the magnets (where the brake fins go through) above the place where the drive tires are when the train goes over them. This might be a small detail ro just an impression, though.

 

Good point!

I wonder if it's true, or if it looks that way because the lack of wheel covers.

 

I don't know... at least what it seems is the larger the launch, the more problems the ride has.

 

When speaking of mechanical launches this can be the case, to some degree.

However that's not really the case when you are speaking of a magnetic launch, 15 years ago it probably had some effect how fast it was going to launch, but nowadays the technology has come such a long way.

 

The modern LSM launches don't have any moving parts, since the fins can be used for both brakes and launches (which is why LSM has become the more dominant as opposed to LIM's who are more power effective) removing all problems with the mechanical issues (on the launch itself).

 

Whenever a magnetic launch coaster is down it's because of the programing causing troubles (this is most often the case with the hydraulic launchers as well) and then it doesn't really matter if it's a 70km/h or a 110km/h launch, it's going to break down anyway.

Sure the speed of the launch may have some degree of causing problems, but not as much as to were it's significant.

 

I would have to disagree.

 

If you look at most of the models is very much a ease in in recent history. The stand ups and inverts are a different story. But Tatsu & SkyScraper are certainly a step up from Air & Superman. SheiKra & Griffon were a big step up from Oblivion and its Korean brother. And most recently we've seen that Ratpor was very conservative compared to X-Flight, Swarm, and GateKeeper.

 

B&M definitely does like to ease into their new products with something forceless and rather unremarkable into something more dramatic.

 

But were not talking about creating a new coaster type, were talking about putting a launch on already developed coaster types, so you're argument is pointless.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I just had a horrible thought.

 

Since they want to take the area back to it's roots and since this is being built right near the old site of King Cobra, maybe it's a B&M standup coaster. Wouldn't that be a real kick in the d**** to everyone.

 

Disclaimer: I don't think this is actually going to happen but I figured I'd bring it up just for fun.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't know... at least what it seems is the larger the launch, the more problems the ride has.

 

When speaking of mechanical launches this can be the case, to some degree.

However that's not really the case when you are speaking of a magnetic launch, 15 years ago it probably had some effect how fast it was going to launch, but nowadays the technology has come such a long way.

 

The modern LSM launches don't have any moving parts, since the fins can be used for both brakes and launches (which is why LSM has become the more dominant as opposed to LIM's who are more power effective) removing all problems with the mechanical issues (on the launch itself).

 

Whenever a magnetic launch coaster is down it's because of the programing causing troubles (this is most often the case with the hydraulic launchers as well) and then it doesn't really matter if it's a 70km/h or a 110km/h launch, it's going to break down anyway.

Sure the speed of the launch may have some degree of causing problems, but not as much as to were it's significant.

 

The faster the launch is, the more magnets that controls the launch, and just by default the more complex the launch is. And the words that you just used are the exact reason that I would expect that B&M isn't exactly wanting to do a launched ride as it is... "it's going to break down anyway."

 

Again, what B&M rides are known for their significant downtime? This is a company that until relatively recently put dog-legs on all of the coaster lifts that it made to disengage the train from the lift chain exactly right to limit maintenance and increase reliability.

 

I would have to disagree.

 

But were not talking about creating a new coaster type, were talking about putting a launch on already developed coaster types, so you're argument is pointless.

 

I'd argue that it isn't pointless at all. A launched coaster is significantly different in design than an "already developed coaster type." You're talking about probably needing to redesign the trains to handle the launch, and the the ride layout is completely different based on the fact that it is controlled by the initial speed of the train, and not just the pull of gravity.

 

It isn't like you can just take the lift off a normal ride and put in LIMS or LSMs. It requires a lot of additional work.

 

Also, your response seems rather rude just because he is disagreeing. I don't know the guys at B&M personally, so I'm just hypothesizing just like Justice was. No reason to get angry or defensive. If you disagree, please give us additional reasons. If there isn't dialogue, it's pointless to talk

Link to post
Share on other sites
The faster the launch is, the more magnets that controls the launch, and just by default the more complex the launch is.

 

That is not really the case.

The LSM motors are all placed, and connected, in line, and it is very rare for them to brake.

Whenever a magnetically launch brakes down it is has most often nothing to do with the hardware on the launch itself, it's a software problem, that would be regardless the size of the launch (until you reach the size of a launch that requires and energy storage system).

 

And the words that you just used are the exact reason that I would expect that B&M isn't exactly wanting to do a launched ride as it is... "it's going to break down anyway."

 

Again, what B&M rides are known for their significant downtime? This is a company that until relatively recently put dog-legs on all of the coaster lifts that it made to disengage the train from the lift chain exactly right to limit maintenance and increase reliability.

 

B&M has stated many times that they don't want to build launched coasters, but it's something that they got to do because 1. They need to keep even with the competitors and 2. They have a lot of loyal customers that I'm sure they want to be able to offer a launched product for.

 

Also you need to stop thinking about other B&M's little downtime, it's not gonna matter when doing a launched ride, because launched rides has more downtime than regular coasters, that is something that B&M know,and they are just going to have to accept it, and build the best type of launch they can.

 

I'd argue that it isn't pointless at all. A launched coaster is significantly different in design than an "already developed coaster type." You're talking about probably needing to redesign the trains to handle the launch, and the the ride layout is completely different based on the fact that it is controlled by the initial speed of the train, and not just the pull of gravity.

 

It isn't like you can just take the lift off a normal ride and put in LIMS or LSMs. It requires a lot of additional work.

 

Yes, but they already have the coaster on lock down.

Flying coasters, Wing riders and big Dive machine's were all developed slowly, because they couldn't really predict how the ride experience would turn out, and how it would effect the train and the coaster itself.

 

That is not the case if they wan't to do an ex. floorless launched coaster, they already knows how it's going to ride, and they know what forces will effect it and they knows how to build the train and integrate the magnetic fins.

 

Other than that it's not really as complex as you say. The LSM launches are very precise about the speed they achieve, and it's very usual to put a big element right after the launch to get the speed under control (which is why most rides like Blue Fire or Intamin top hats crawl over the top), other than that you just use a trim break after the first element to assure that the ride won't overspeed.

 

B&M has some of the best engineers on the planet, they will figure it out.

 

Also, your response seems rather rude just because he is disagreeing.

 

They are not rude.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Is it fair to say that once track arrives we will be able to determine if it's going to be a dive machine OR rule it out based on the track width?

 

Yes you could, assuming that it's the big dive machine track (like Sheikra & Griffon). If it's smaller track it could still be a small one, like Krake.

Link to post
Share on other sites

If you can see the labels on the track you can know for sure, but if they put it all in that field rather than a parking lot staging area, I'm not sure that you would be able to see them.

Link to post
Share on other sites

For those who said B&M doesn't want to build launchers, therefore they won't build one, here's a thought that popped ino my mind. They said a similar thing with gigas, and eventually, they built one.. Leviathan, which happens to be in my home park.

 

In addition, not ALL b&m prototypes are forceless, as somebody mentioned above, as proven with leviathan, which some claim rivals mf in terms of best giga.

 

Just my two cents

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.


×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Terms of Use https://themeparkreview.com/forum/topic/116-terms-of-service-please-read/