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Kings Island (KI) Discussion Thread

p. 792 - Camp Cedar campground to open in 2021!

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Its still my favorite wooden coaster. I love terrain coasters and the way this one flies through the forest is amazing. Its kinda dull, but I like that because i can just enjoy the view and it whips through the trees. The last two helixes are still really intense and the ride gives amazing night rides. I cannot think of another coaster thats even close to this at night.

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Others can probably elaborate better than I can, but I get the sense that Beast used to be a better coaster before the magnetic trims replaced the skid brakes in 03/04. I never got to ride before then but when I rode the new brakes brought the train to a dead stop in the brake shed and severely slowed it after the second lift before the helix. I've always had the impression that it sailed through these with minimal loss of speed in its original form.

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The Beast may have been great in it's hay day but it sure is a boring coaster now. I rode it 2 years ago and it is great that it is an iconic coaster but it really does nothing but roam through the woods. As everyone else has been saying, the trims really kill the ride and the helix is the only fun part of the ride. The first drop was so boring because of the trims. I do like iconic coasters and the Beast was my 100th coaster but that is about all I can say for it.

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Back in the day of the skid brakes, the ride seemed to be overall much faster. Now if it really was, I'm not sure. That said, the first drop felt like a real drop and more importantly, the second drop into the valley provided GREAT airtime. These days, there is nothing. Also, I feel like the magnetic trims in the midcourse brake shed stop you significantly more than the old days... maybe it's just my imagination because I highly doubt the speed has changed THAT much. Maybe it's just that the skids were much more gradual and not a "jerky" stop like the magnetics? That said, the final double helix is still insane. One advantage to the skid brakes was that you would get absolutely WILD rides if it had been/was raining.

 

This was the first year in almost 15 years I haven't been to KI, but I have heard that it was significantly better this year than the past decade or so because of some serious retracking. Also, a night ride on The Beast still provides one heckuva ride, especially when there is a chill in the air.

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I'm not sure why I rode Vortex last time I was at KI. I just wanted to ride it, and after it was all over, I regretted it. I had a headache for a little bit, but I moved on with life. I'm really not going to miss this coaster.

 

Did anyone notice that at the end of the SoB demolish video someone yelled "yeah"? I guess they were not a fan either.

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Talking about tearing down a coaster.

 

Check this video out - http://telly.com/627VV From Greg Scheid's (GM of Kings Island) Twitter acount

 

 

Awesome...next up - Vortex and Flight Deck!!!

 

Actually, I wouldn't mind if they demolished all of the coasters at Kings Island except Beast and Diamondback.

Just think about this for a minute. The Diamondback is very similar to the Nitro at SFGAdv only it lacks the reputation for force that the Nitro has. The El Toro is considered one of the top two woodies in the country. They also have the tallest coaster in the world Kingda Ka. They have many of the coasters that people on here have argued should replace it. It is located a little more than an hour away from the largest city in the U.S (NYC) and within similar distances to other larger cities such as Philadelphia. How does it rank against KI (just a reminder the amusement park with the highest attendance in the U.S.)? Lower

 

Or How about Six Flags Great America. It has the Raging Bull again similar to the Diamondback. They have some of the coasters discussed for potential replacements for Vortex. It is located next to Chicago, the third largest city in America. How does attendance rank? Again less than King's Island.

 

I could continue on but for the sake of my fingers, I'll get to the point. King's Island is one of the most popular parks in America and it is located near Cinncinati, a wonderful community, but it does not have nearly the size of potential local market support that other parks offering similar hyper coasters and well ranked wooden coasters and has coasters that are being argued that KI would benefit from. What this proves is the park coaster line up beyond the Diamondback and the Beast (as well as other attractions) are pulling in crowds from all over. It would be a very BAD business move to eliminate every coaster except the Diamondback and the Beast, because you will remove the reason why people are going the distance to attend this park. You need to realize that not everyone goes to a park for the exact same coaster. Some come for the Diamondback, some come for the Vortex, some come for the Beast, some come for the Racer, some come for the Flight Deck, some come for Fear of Flight, some even come due to the reputation for having had crazy attractions like the SoB and the Bat.

 

The secret to success is not investing strictly in one brand and one type of segment, it is investing in a variety and building the reputation as being one of the first to offer it, setting a new benchmark in a pre-existing segment, or giving a very different experience within a pre-existing segment. It creates an image of being a premium park and being the first in a segment has the stronger draw than any follow-ups for coaster fans. It is also important to remember when a large brand like Cedar Fair owns a lot of parks, not to exhaust a ride layout. Having the Mamba, Steel Force, and Wild Thing very similar removes a reason for fans to put in the investment to visit each other park. Why bother based on this when the experience will be the same? Having Cedar Point offer Millennium Force and Kings Dominion offer Intimidator 305 was a prime example of how it should be done. Some prefer Millennium Force other prefer Intimidator 305, the great thing is after a person tries one and love it, it creates a reason for making the investment to go to the other park to try what will be a complete different experience from what they already tried to see which they like better. This arrangement compliments each other especially when this is still a more rare segment.

 

To summarize my point, use the vacant land from SoB for next addition(s). After that, if something must be removed for a new attraction look at attendance and uniqueness of current attractions being considered for the chopping block. Good performers (the Vortex and the Beast) sometimes need reinvestment to keep them strong. The KI strategy of making each addition count has clearly worked given its attendance record compared to their level of investment and given their pull outside their local market. Investing insane amounts of money in attractions without analyzing if this is the right and most effective addition is Six Flags strategy (see SFMM) and it has not worked anywhere close to as well as KI comparing amount invested over a ten year period and pull from outside markets. Make sensible additions and well calculated removals.

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^I can understand where you're coming from. I was only voicing my personal opinion about what were the only two coasters that I really care for at the park.

 

Obviously, everyone has their favorites and you need a big variety to pull in the crowds - of which KI does. But in terms of what I, myself would consider good coasters at this particular park, those are the two that I feel are the best.

 

Not that I despise Firehawk, Invertigo, or Flight of Fear, but being a coaster enthusiast and seeing these at multiple park chains, I can say that these are coasters that I don't particularly run for when I hit the gate because I've already ridden them all and know that they are average at best. Non-enthusiasts would look at any of those and probably think they were the coolest, most original coaster designs ever. Just look at the average line for Firehawk to know that!

 

I can say that our rides on Flight Deck were not overly pleasant this year...and Vortex was just plain brutal.

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^I can understand where you're coming from. I was only voicing my personal opinion about what were the only two coasters that I really care for at the park.

 

Obviously, everyone has their favorites and you need a big variety to pull in the crowds - of which KI does. But in terms of what I, myself would consider good coasters at this particular park, those are the two that I feel are the best.

 

Not that I despise Firehawk, Invertigo, or Flight of Fear, but being a coaster enthusiast and seeing these at multiple park chains, I can say that these are coasters that I don't particularly run for when I hit the gate because I've already ridden them all and know that they are average at best. Non-enthusiasts would look at any of those and probably think they were the coolest, most original coaster designs ever. Just look at the average line for Firehawk to know that!

 

I can say that our rides on Flight Deck were not overly pleasant this year...and Vortex was just plain brutal.

Fair enough. I share similar sentiments about the three clones and believe that they have their place (with the only possible exception of Invertigo). The one thing I will say about Firehawk is I believe that part of the popularity is due to it being a recent addition. After it has been there for say ten to fifteen years, I have my doubts that it will remain as strong as what Flight of Fear has been due to its lack of force. Also, I don't have the numbers to back this up so I may be wrong on this, but I think it only appears to be more popular due to the longer amount of time that it takes to load and unload the trains. The fact that they decided they only needed two instead of its original three trains makes me think that this one is not as popular as it would appear when it is using only two trains and that it takes longer to fill than say the Vortex that uses three and is very quick to change out.

 

Concerning the Vortex, this is why I recommend having different restraint or trains and if absolutely necessary some retracking. If any of these would improve the experience for those whom have a problem with it, it is worth it. Just so long as it is still there for years to come is all I care about. Concerning the Flight Deck, my thoughts are they should at least keep for its 25 year recommended life. I'm not sure that much of anything can be done for it when these were rare and the track is not the normal Arrow track that Vekoma uses or the one that Chance Morgan has been able to be used as a replacement for in the past; therefore, fixing this problem is much more complex and expensive.

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Don't ask me why I was in bed thinking of this at 4:30 this morning, but if they ever took out Flight Deck, I think that would be a great place for them to put in a B&M invert. I was thinking something like Nemesis or Montu where you could incorporate the landscape into the ride the way FD does now.

 

Granted B&M inverts are somewhat old hat at this point (with the exception of the recent Oziris in France), but I think that if they had something similar to Nemesis in that area, people would really take to it. If they could make it an original and not simply plop another invert clone in there, I think it would really garnish some attention.

 

Of course that would mean that Cedar Fair would have to heavily invest in some good theming with underground tunnels, waterfalls and so forth to pull it off...

 

Orrrrrr, maybe not...next?

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^^^ Is there any chance that the Wingrider concept kinda fades away in a few years like the Stand-up, flyer, and Floorless sort of did? I mean I rode WIld Eagle, and it was fine, it was fun, but I didn't like it nearly as much as Raptor, or Montu, or Dueling Dragons or several other B&M inverts. Maybe the next generation of wing riders starting with Gatekeeper will take that concept to the next level but maybe these things will get built like crazy for 3 or 4 years then disappear.

 

(I think the concept will last because it seems to be very well received by the GP, but you never know)

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I wonder if Cedar Fair would even consider building a Wingrider at KI when it's so close to the one at their signature park?

 

I would assume that they would want CP to have the biggest, longest, highest, fastest Wingrider title for at least a couple of years before they built one at another CF park...especially at a park that's only a few hours away.

 

It will be interesting to see what they do with all of the space from SoB...let alone what they do with the space from Vortex or when/if they remove Flight Deck.

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Well they both have Dinosaurs and Windseekers. I can't really see why they both can't have wing coasters either (although I do think having two Windseeker towers in the same state is a bit odd). At least they're not that close to each other like Coast Rider and Technic Coaster or Goliath and Great White. And they probably won't be exact copies either.

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I don't understand why CP and KI can't have similar rides. The thing is, my hometown is Cincinnati, OH. (I currently live in NYC.) So technically, my home park is KI. Anyways, NONE of the people I know around the Cincinnati area go to Cedar Point, and most of them don't even know what it is. So, I don't find it weird if both parks have a Windseeker etc..

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What about the cost of wingriders? Are they a lot more than the standard inverted B&M's (sorry if this has already been discussed, I haven't followed them too closely).

Edited by jray21
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I would think that an Intamin Wing Ride coaster would be a tiny bit less expensive as well because you don't have to construct two separate queue lines for either side of the train (the Intamins have a platform that guests can walk across).

 

That would be really cool actually, and it would provide a nice contrast to Gatekeeper.

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