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Kings Island (KI) Discussion Thread

p. 792 - Camp Cedar campground to open in 2021!

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Someone mentioned the ride is boring on the flat sections between curves. Now... imagine those flat sections but twice as fast! The train would have a very "hurtling" feel to it. I thought Voyage could benefit from a few of those flat sections (they also could have beat the length record with just 3 or 4 of those).

 

Imagine the finally of the Raven, but 3 times as long.

You know, Will Koch drew most of his inspiration of the Raven from the Beast. If the Beast was renovated like that, it would be far and wide the greatest wooden roller coaster ever built IMHO. Of course, the reality of this actually happening is pretty slim. If it did happen, I can guarantee that a LOT of older coaster purists would hate Kings Island forever.

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Why are so many people arguing about The Beast? First off, I thought this was all about SoB. Secondly, have any of you ridden The Beast this season? It is running perfectly. I've been to the park twice this summer and ridden The Beast at least 10 times. All of the track work they did in the off-season helped a ton! The ride is running great. It's a 33 year old ride, so of course there could be improvements, but that would take away the classic "Beast" feeling. A topper track is just impractical. From the front of the train to the back, it is running better than it has in the past few years. The Beast is arguably KI's star coaster (other than Diamondback)... doing any huge modifications would turn SO many people off from the ride. Any huge changes would not be in the park's best interest. And I'm not completely bummed that they are taking SoB out. I liked the ride, but it wasn't as great as it could have been. I only got to ride it maybe 3 or 4 times. By the time I had ridden it, the loop was already removed. It was a good ride. VERY fast and probably the most intense woodie I've ever been on. It had potential, but it was a mediocre ride after all. I think taking it out is a good move. It's been such an eyesore since '09. Removing it will free up a lot of space. Only time will tell what they decide to fill the space up with. But hey, that's just my opinion.

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topper track is just impractical.P

 

Why is topper track impractical? Unless there is something I am missing topper track simply means decreased maintenance costs over time, and a smoother faster more consistent improved ride experience, how is that impractical?

 

Secondly, have any of you ridden The Beast this season? It is running perfectly.

I have not ridden it this year, but I rode it 2 years ago and it was really, good probably the best it had been in years. The point is, and the reason this whole discussion got started, is that just about everyone agrees that the ride was much better before the magnetic brakes were installed. Not that there is anything wrong with it now, it's just not as intense and memorable as it once was, and the idea what the ride could be with the help of some modern technology is pretty exciting.

 

doing any huge modifications would turn SO many people off from the ride. Any huge changes would not be in the park's best interest. But hey, that's just my opinion. :

How many people out there were turned off by the modifications to the Texas Giant? Seems like those changes have worked out pretty well....

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A topper track is very practical in the long run. Right now, it's just not needed. Yeah, I can't disagree that it's not as intense now. But there's not much you can do about modernizing an older ride. So seeing one in the near future wouldn't be a huge surprise. I've never ridden Texas Giant, so I can't say. To me, a whole "Texas Giant" facelift on The Beast wouldn't really fit. There are no huge drops or high banks that is has to do. The helix would be pretty crazy with the makeover, but it seems like all it would do for the rest of the ride is smooth it out. The recent track work made it really smooth. I think I rode it for the first time when I was 10. To me, it's running the best it has in the past 6 years. If you rode it today, I think you'd be surprised. haha (:

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I just wanted to chime in on the Beast conversation. The ride is running great. They've done a considerable amount of retrack/rebuild in parts of the ride. Last year the worst part was the turn after the ravine drop into the shed but they totally rebuilt it and now the train is very smooth through there.

 

Didn't they switch over to the magnetic brakes after two trains collided in the station after a rain? The brakes don't bother me only when they are on harder than they should be. A light tap doesn't overly detract from the ride experience, IMO.

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I don't know the whole story about why they changed the brakes. I feel the same way. It by no means makes the ride any worse. Could rain mess up the magnetic brakes in any way? I don't see how it could, but I was at the park last week and I rode it right after a storm. It didn't seem like we slowed down at the end of the shed as much as you normally do. We weren't going fast enough for anything to go wrong, but it did seem pretty crazy. The track was still wet, so it was probably just because of that.

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I just wanted to chime in on the Beast conversation. The ride is running great. They've done a considerable amount of retrack/rebuild in parts of the ride. Last year the worst part was the turn after the ravine drop into the shed but they totally rebuilt it and now the train is very smooth through there.

 

Didn't they switch over to the magnetic brakes after two trains collided in the station after a rain? The brakes don't bother me only when they are on harder than they should be. A light tap doesn't overly detract from the ride experience, IMO.

 

You're right (2002).

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A topper track is very practical in the long run. Right now, it's just not needed. Yeah, I can't disagree that it's not as intense now. But there's not much you can do about modernizing an older ride. So seeing one in the near future wouldn't be a huge surprise. I've never ridden Texas Giant, so I can't say. To me, a whole "Texas Giant" facelift on The Beast wouldn't really fit. There are no huge drops or high banks that is has to do. The helix would be pretty crazy with the makeover, but it seems like all it would do for the rest of the ride is smooth it out. The recent track work made it really smooth. I think I rode it for the first time when I was 10. To me, it's running the best it has in the past 6 years. If you rode it today, I think you'd be surprised. haha (:

I have ridden the Texas Giant and the Beast and the Beast should stay exactly the way it is. The Beast is a legend as it is. Older coasters such as these need to remain this way. The only ones that should consider the Texas Giant type of transformation are ones that were terrible from day 1 that are almost un-rideable. The Rattler (SFFT) is an example of one that needs this. The entire ride no matter where you sit is non-stop torso banging no matter where you sit. When I rode the Beast last year (late August), the front was just fine. The rear although admittedly a painful experience during turns was no contest to what the Rattler was like. In the case of the Beast, it just needs periodic retracking, maybe different trains (Millennium Flyers), but otherwise it is a great coaster as it is. The Texas Giant is no longer a woodie, it is just a steel coaster with a wooden frame. If KI wants that, do that with the SoB.

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The Beast should have topper track, not necessarily because it is overly painful (although it was quite painful when I rode it) but so they can do away wih the trims. I really don't care for the Beast that much. Honestly, it rarely feels like you are going faster than 30 mph, as there are few forces to be had on the ride due to the trims.

 

IMO, the Beast is only worth a wait longer than 30 minutes at night. Any other time, I do not find it to be anything special.

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Texas Giant uses Iron Horse track, not Topper. GA Cyclone is an example of a coaster that received Topper Track.

 

I have ridden the Texas Giant and the Beast and the Beast should stay exactly the way it is. The Beast is a legend as it is. Older coasters such as these need to remain this way. The only ones that should consider the Texas Giant type of transformation are ones that were terrible from day 1 that are almost un-rideable. The Rattler (SFFT) is an example of one that needs this. The entire ride no matter where you sit is non-stop torso banging no matter where you sit. When I rode the Beast last year (late August), the front was just fine. The rear although admittedly a painful experience during turns was no contest to what the Rattler was like. In the case of the Beast, it just needs periodic retracking, maybe different trains (Millennium Flyers), but otherwise it is a great coaster as it is. The Texas Giant is no longer a woodie, it is just a steel coaster with a wooden frame. If KI wants that, do that with the SoB.

 

Topper Track is still classified as wooden coaster track because it's designed is similar to most traditional wooden coasters (steel beams with layers of wood underneath). Beast doesn't need Iron Horse treatment like Texas Giant and Rattler (straight up steel I-beams on wooden supports), but more along the lines of what GA Cyclone and SFNE Cyclone received on a larger scale. If that means removing the trims and bringing the ride back to its original state while reducing the need for costly retracking every few years, I'm all for it.

 

That being said, I doubt Texas Giant and Rattler were terrible from day 1. It's just that those coasters were ahead of their time when they first opened. Texas Giant even won a Golden Ticket Award at one point.

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Topper track

 

Texas Giant track

 

Topper track still counts as a wood coaster, and is available to install on already existing rides, while the steal I-beams is only for a full ride remodeling, or a brad new ride.

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I would much rather see a proper wooden coaster re-tracking on the Beast, done by a company like Great Coasters International or Gravity Group. As more and more parks begin to adopt the technology pioneered by Intamin and Rocky Mountain, I think that we'll see less and less "traditional" wooden coasters like Phoenix, Boulder Dash, and Beast. I for one love the traditional "rough and tumble" experience that comes with riding an old wooden coaster.

 

Maybe its the Beast's trains that are tearing up the track?

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As more and more parks begin to adopt the technology pioneered by Intamin and Rocky Mountain, I think that we'll see less and less "traditional" wooden coasters like Phoenix, Boulder Dash, and Beast. I for one love the traditional "rough and tumble" experience that comes with riding an old wooden coaster.

 

This is not true with the Intamin woodies. They've only built 4 in ~12 years. The last one was built 4 years ago and there isn't one announced for next year. The cost limits the amount that will ever be constructed.

 

With Rocky Mountain, we'll see. There is no indication of them displacing either Gravity Group or GCII so far.

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I would much rather see a proper wooden coaster re-tracking on the Beast, done by a company like Great Coasters International or Gravity Group. As more and more parks begin to adopt the technology pioneered by Intamin and Rocky Mountain, I think that we'll see less and less "traditional" wooden coasters like Phoenix, Boulder Dash, and Beast. I for one love the traditional "rough and tumble" experience that comes with riding an old wooden coaster.

 

Maybe its the Beast's trains that are tearing up the track?

I agree. The issue that I have with topper tracks or the Iron Horse is that they make the coaster feel less and less like a woodie. Woodies are supposed to have a degree of rattle to them. There is a difference between good woodies like the Beast and poor ones like the Rattler in how they ride. The former have a degree of shakiness which adds to the experience, the latter beats you to death no matter what you do. I get tired of the over refinement of some coasters which makes the experience the same whether riding them in person or watching them on youtube. Coasters are meant to be intense, not for sight seeing.

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I rode the Beast in its opening year and rode it again last year. It was running well last year, not too shaky but it was very trimmed. A ride with trims on the first drop is clearly not living up to its potential. The final helix was fun and a bit intense although I enjoyed Diamondback much more, in part because it actually has negative G airtime.

 

The only Rocky Mountain track I've been on is Tremors at Silverwood. It has topper track on the big helix and the far turn, it didn't remove the "wooden coaster" feeling at all. I never went on Tremors before the topper track but I can imagine it was a maintenance headache for the park. Tremors isn't the best wooden coaster I've been on but it's close. Night rides on it are better than night rides on the Beast.

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I'm not normally in favor of heavily re-profiling and extensively changing "classic" coasters but I feel like the Beast has such a unique layout that it could fairly easily be transformed into a top 5 modern wooden coaster with a minimal investment.

 

Hrm... The Beast "classic"? Maybe at one point, in an odd way. But with all that PTC "gear"? uck. It's been Frankensteined to the max. But I know what you mean, it is often called a "classic." Out of all the MEGA woodies built in the 70s/80s, I would say American Eagle kicks them all to the curve. (I'm thinking Colossus, Beast, Screamin' Eagle, Hurcules, American Eagle as the first BIG woodies back then. I think I may be forgetting one...)

 

The Beast's 2nd drop (78' at a 32 degree angle iirc) used to be floater air... but thats long long gone. I would think the entire 350' mid course brake/trim could be converted into a big dip... into an underground tunnel, of course.

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