Kings Island (KI) Discussion Thread

[10ryansmith]

SOB was a good coaster, exept for the hurtful shacking. To me, the Mean Streak at Cedar Point is a great coaster to but it also shakes you bady. SOB would be a very big dud if they take the loop out. I just don't see PKI taking the loop out of the only looping roller coaster in the world. if they did, then PKI needs a slogane that is as good as when it had the loop. Personally, the helix in the middle of the ride would be awesome if the cars just were not trying to throw you of the coaster. The helix on the Beast was rough there for a long time and the SOB was renderd from the Beast.

[ginzo]

I don't mind Roughness, though I do prefer smooth rides istead of shaky ones. The fact that they took the loop out to make the ride smoother sucks. What kind of holes can they be?

 

The kind of holes that don't want to hurt riders! A few of the riders were mangled pretty badly in last year's accident. They're trying to find a way to prevent this from ever happening again. Safety is a lot more important than keeping some dumb gimmick in a ride that was never any good to begin with.

 

PKI should have invested in a hypercoaster instead of SOB. The cost is similar, and it would have been a far better investment with far less maintenance headaches.

[carolinacaniac]

Before I add my two cents I have a question about two other loops:

 

1) Anyone know if the loop on California Screamin' is being recmoved completly, being temporarly removed or replaced?

 

2) Someone mentioned that Batman at SFNO had it's loop removed, when did that happen?

 

Now my two cents. I think that while many people of the general public will realize the loss of the rides major gimmick, I don't know that it will loose as many riders as most people here think. For one thing, SOB is stil the tallest coaster in the park, and GP peeps (RCT reference) like going on the tallest coasters. I also think many people are prejudging the ride without the loop before riding it. Maybe most people didn't like it before because of how rough it is? But what if these modifications turn out to be all that is needed to make it a good ride? I know the first couple times I rode it I could not believe how steep the first drop was and how fast it was thoughout the ride.

 

All I am saying is give it a ride first before you say this was a bad move. I would be willing to admit that it was still a bad ride and now doesn't even have a loop after riding it if I found it to be that way.

[jarmor]

Before I add my two cents I have a question about two other loops:

 

1) Anyone know if the loop on California Screamin' is being recmoved completly, being temporarly removed or replaced?

 

2) Someone mentioned that Batman at SFNO had it's loop removed, when did that happen?

 

Im not trying to be a jerk man but you can just read the first pages of both of those threads and you can clearly see what is going on...that's all it takes!

[Dane]

Hi,

 

Why did the loop require heavier trains?

 

Was it for increased momentum?

 

Time for the daily physics lesson:

 

Force = ((velocity^2)*mass)/radius

 

If I assume the force in the loop is too large. The only way they can change the force is by decreasing the mass of the trains. As it is impossible for them to change the velocity of the train entering the loop and the radius of the loop (they would have to construct a new loop). The only way they can change the force the riders experince (us) is by decreasing the mass of the trains. Assumming that it is too expensive to change the trains, they just decided to remove the source of the problem, i.e. the loop.

 

Now the engineer and the riders are happy right?

 

 

Dane

 

Now the engineer is very *un*happy!

Simply because you are dead wronk!

 

Acceleration = (velocity^2) / radius

Gs = Acceleration / EG (EG == 9.81m/s²)

 

At the given speed, you could even go through the loop on the back of a butterfly, and still have the very same centripetal acceleration acting upon riders. The argument of train weight in regards to reducing rider experiencd forces in the loop is therefor failing miserably.

 

 

Sorry for the misunderstanding, as I myself am a engineering student. There is a minimum velocity the train needs to enter the loop which is determined by the above formula, excluding air resistance, and friction caused by the wheels and so on. But the point is that the most forceful part of the loop is at the bottom as resultant in the normal force experienced by the rider is given by:

 

N = m(g+((v^2)/R))

 

Dane

[hectordelbano]

You know, I would much rather prefer a rough ride with a unique element than a slightly less rough ride on a more boring circuit.

 

People who complain about roughness are just being wimpy...there are different levels of thrill and intensity for everyone, and some people enjoy being jostled around a bit. I mean, did you even want to ride Space Mountain when you were four years old or did it scare you? This is the same thing, only now you're 50 and afraid of a little back pain.

 

As far as the ride breaking down, let me let you in on a little secret: EVERY RIDE HAS THE POSSIBILITY OF BREAKING DOWN. It's something that goes along with the hobby us roller coaster geeks enjoy.

 

And I don't want to be morbid or pessimistic, but just because one person dies on a ride doesn't mean it should be torn down. Heck, if that was the case we should tear down all the freeways in the country and replace them with gardens. Oh wait, someone could be allergic to rhododendrons and get hurt.

 

Basically, if you couldn't infer through all my reductio ad absurdum logic, it's a bit ridiculous that they can't come up with a way to keep the loop there. WE CAN PUT MONKEYS IN SPACE, so why can't we make a looping wooden coaster that people can enjoy.

 

Food for thought,

 

Hector "I enjoy sex with people dressed as animals-5309" Montalban

[thunderguy]

What a hell is going on? I hope they don't demolish S.O.B.

[mcjaco]

Ohhh, I've always wanted to post after someone that loves to have sex with people dressed as animals!

 

There's some truly deep thoughts in here. If only you'd read the whole thread.

 

I refer some of you to this: http://www.themeparkreview.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=31454

[Scaparri]

I think that while many people of the general public will realize the loss of the rides major gimmick, I don't know that it will loose as many riders as most people here think.

 

It's not going to lose riders because it doesn't hardly have any as it is. The last time I rode SOB was on a busy Saturday in August (that even had a headlining concert that night) and the wait was about 10 minutes. The people of greater Cincinnati have learned.

 

What a hell is going on? I hope they don't demolish S.O.B.

 

I do.

 

Take the unpopular P.O.S. out and put in something worthwhile. There was a time where I loved this ride, but that was many moons ago.

 

I mean, I really like that they are making an effort to improve this ride, but I guess I just don't really see it getting any better. CF can't even take proper care of the wooden coasters they already have that were once good (i.e. Mean Streak, Ghostrider). How can we think that they will ever improve SOB? It seems to me that when you have a ride this expensive to maintain, and this unpopular, is it not a wise decision to just give it the wrecking ball? It was a good idea gone very bad.

[Moose]

Hi,

 

Why did the loop require heavier trains?

 

Was it for increased momentum?

 

Time for the daily physics lesson:

 

Force = ((velocity^2)*mass)/radius

 

If I assume the force in the loop is too large. The only way they can change the force is by decreasing the mass of the trains. As it is impossible for them to change the velocity of the train entering the loop and the radius of the loop (they would have to construct a new loop). The only way they can change the force the riders experince (us) is by decreasing the mass of the trains. Assumming that it is too expensive to change the trains, they just decided to remove the source of the problem, i.e. the loop.

 

Now the engineer and the riders are happy right?

 

 

Dane

 

Now the engineer is very *un*happy!

Simply because you are dead wronk!

 

Acceleration = (velocity^2) / radius

Gs = Acceleration / EG (EG == 9.81m/s²)

 

At the given speed, you could even go through the loop on the back of a butterfly, and still have the very same centripetal acceleration acting upon riders. The argument of train weight in regards to reducing rider experiencd forces in the loop is therefor failing miserably.

 

 

Sorry for the misunderstanding, as I myself am a engineering student. There is a minimum velocity the train needs to enter the loop which is determined by the above formula, excluding air resistance, and friction caused by the wheels and so on. But the point is that the most forceful part of the loop is at the bottom as resultant in the normal force experienced by the rider is given by:

 

N = m(g+((v^2)/R))

 

Dane

 

Believe it or not, i didnt need the physics lesson. You see, i am not an engineering student, but an actual engineer. My question wasn't regarding the physics of the heavier train. The heavier train will increase the velocity of the train through the loop and the entire course due to its increase momentum since it does not really increase drag. Thats why empty trains sometimes have a hard time making it through the whole circuit (i.e. Raptor at the end of the season)

 

My question was more if the trains were heavier do to hardware, i.e. bigger upstops, or something like that.

[SonOfBeastSucks]

Nobody ever rode this as it is, the line will always be empty now. Hopefully this will be the death of the ride, allthough I doubt it. SoB is like a cockroach, it will NEVER die.

[snuggles]

New for 2008: leap the dips gets a loop bigger than the ride

[Moose]

Nobody ever rode this as it is, the line will always be empty now. Hopefully this will be the death of the ride, allthough I doubt it. SoB is like a cockroach, it will NEVER die.

 

I figure by your name you will prejudge the ride no matter what, but there is no possible way you can know what the changes they are making will do to the ride. They *might* just make it an enjoyable ride.

[verticalzero]

But the "loop" was not the problem was it...? Now the train will be at full speed when hitting the 2nd Helix, that should be fun on your ribs.

 

I have always said the design/layout is "wrong", you can't really be going 78mph into a banked double helix, the structure will shake it's self to bits after a few years.

 

Put PTC trains on the circuit and see if the ride improves.

 

I'm glad I rode it, a "World Record" has been taken away from Kings Island, another park can now build a woodie and claim:

 

"only woodie on earth with a loop".

 

How about replace the loop with a decent portion of tunnel. Son would really live up to father then

 

What ever happens to SOB it will be great to see it running again in 2007 at KI

[rollermonkey]

What's the lightest (woodie) trains available?

PTC's? Millenium Flyers?

 

Just curious...

[CoasterFanatic]

^ My guess would be G-Trains. If you can still buy them.

[Coasterboy2]

To ginzo:

The kind of holes that don't want to hurt riders! A few of the riders were mangled pretty badly in last year's accident. They're trying to find a way to prevent this from ever happening again. Safety is a lot more important than keeping some dumb gimmick in a ride that was never any good to begin with.

 

Was the problem in the loop? Just as I said before I read the article about 10 times but still don't believe that the problem was in the loop that had coused the excident. Safety first of course, but I just can't see why they should remove the loop for that. But hey, RCCA is the wooden Togo coaster manufacturer. Too bad only that they don't make all of their coasters with the steel track they used on the loop. I know that it aint woody's what they make, but their coaster should be way more smooth.

[SharkTums]

I'm pretty sure this has been posted but I will post it again for all of you who can't be bothered to read the thread.

 

Yes the loop was smooth, yes it was good, yes it was quite possibly the best part of the ride...BUT....

 

The speed, weight, and structure that the ride needed to get riders safely through the loop was causing the rest of the ride to fall apart. The loop is being taken out, and parts of the other ride are getting some TLC. That compared with modified lighter trains SHOULD make for a better ride.

 

By better I mean, not as painful. It will most likely still be rough and boring!

[terrancew_hod]

Believe it or not, i didnt need the physics lesson. You see, i am not an engineering student, but an actual engineer. My question wasn't regarding the physics of the heavier train. The heavier train will increase the velocity of the train through the loop and the entire course due to its increase momentum since it does not really increase drag. Thats why empty trains sometimes have a hard time making it through the whole circuit (i.e. Raptor at the end of the season)

 

 

Class Dismissed.

 

What I learned in class to day: K.I.S.S.

 

Back on subject. I'll have to decide whether to ride it or not when the time comes. I rode it once and I considered the loop to be a much needed respite from the continuous assault on my back. That's all I remember about the loop.

 

Either way I won't lose much sleep over it. I just wanna ride the Beast at night again!

 

Terrance

[redunzelizer]

Sorry for the misunderstanding, as I myself am a engineering student. There is a minimum velocity the train needs to enter the loop

Indeed. after all the mass center of the train has to reach a certain height to "make it through" the loop. Left out the friction, this speed is mass independent!

 

which is determined by the above formula, excluding air resistance, and friction caused by the wheels and so on.

Nope its not. see below...

 

But the point is that the most forceful part of the loop is at the bottom as resultant in the normal force experienced by the rider is given by:

 

N = m(g+((v^2)/R))

 

Dane

 

Again this is a wronk assumption. Your formula *would* only fit a train of singular dimension (having the size of a point!) within a perfectly circular loop, with the riders sitting right between(!) the rails.

 

Usually, these loop's entry and exit are of clothoid geometry, by that providing gradual force changes. Hence the maximum of experienced forces for the front car (first row) are at about 9-11 o'clock at entrance, but for the last car (last row) are at 4-6 o'clock at exit.

 

The engineer still is not happy.

 

BTW: you might want to look at my avatar too...

[Wes]

I'm pretty sure this has been posted but I will post it again for all of you who can't be bothered to read the thread.

 

Elissa, why waste your time? Someone on the next page will say "OMG y r they takin out the loop it wuz the smoothest part it dosnt make ne sence" followed by "Man first they take out SOBS loop then they take out California Screamins loop why are all parks takin out their loops".

 

Lather, rinse, repeat.

[mcjaco]

^ Wait. They took out California Screamin's loop????

 

Never rode SoB....oh well. Guess I'll have to ride the loopless version.

[BeemerBoy]

^ They're taking out California Screamin's loop????

 

EDIT: ^Damn you're quick.

[thomas2]

It's sad to see the one part that makes this ride unique in the world taken away. But maybe that's a good thing. Wooden coaster just don't match with loopings IMO.

 

Ooh well we'll see what it gives. But as stated above, I don't think the ride will suddenly become awesome. I'd say tear it down and replace it with something nicer instead of investing in it. It isn't worth the investement IMO.

[mcjaco]

EDIT: ^Damn you're quick.

 

That's what my wife tells me too.....