Kings Island (KI) Discussion Thread

[coasterbill]

^^ If enthusiast's (or the public as a whole) were calling the shots, every park in the chain would immediately install a massive coaster and the chain would go into bankruptcy almost immediately.

[BigBad]

Certainly, but I have no doubt that we'd have a lot of fun while it lasted!

[CP Maverick]

They never implemented a good version of Roller Coaster Tycoon "World", to the point where you had to actually compete for market share and used attendance trends to guide your spending.

 

Edit: I think I'm gonna go look for my RCT2 disc now...

[storms555]

I been on both Beast and Voyage and I have to say I do prefer Voyage way more. However KI has more coasters and thrill rides so if i had to pick Id pick KI. I have yet to try Diamondback and Banshee. However I'd like to try Thunderbird that coaster looks a lot of fun.

[CP Maverick]

Holiday World has a fantastic selection of rides. Not as many as Kings Island, but the quality is there.

[kenban]

Cedar Fair purchased the Paramount parks in early 2006. So from 2007 to 2017 here are the coasters Kings Island, Carowinds, and Canada's Wonderland have received.

 

Kings Island

2007 - Firehawk

2009 - Diamondback

2014 - Banshee

2017 - Mystic Timbers

 

Canadas Wonderland

2008 - Behemoth

2012 - Leviathan

2014 - Wonder Mountain Guardians

 

Carowinds

2009 - Flying Cobras

2010 - Intimidator

2015 - Fury 325

 

Except for Cedar Point, Kings Island is getting more coasters and I would argue more money then the rest of the chain. The park might have not gotten a giga right now but look at what they have received.

[Skramp]

 

LOL..Can you read. It was all about ROI's and it's in several posts. You as usual are whining and do your continuously regurgitated post when you have run out of logic for you argument. The park does not need 4 wood coasters, another family woody doesn't bring Gp's to the park and doesn't drive any more than normal season pass sales.

 

 

I couldn't take anything you said seriously after reading this! KI doesn't need 4 woodies? Is that a factual statement or just your opinion? I mean you do seem to "know" everything about running an amusement park, I mean you must, you are on here preaching to everyone about how parks should be run. KI is not a destination park, it is a local park. But it draws huge numbers every year, it consistently ranks in the Top 5 attended parks in the US every year. That being said, they don't really need a huge "draw" ride as they seem to be doing pretty good. For those of us that live in the Dayton/Cincinnati area, we are spoiled with Holiday World, Kentucky Kingdom, Kings Island, Cedar Point, Kennywood, Great America and St Louis all within about a 6 hr drive. We have tons of options, but a lot of people choose KI because of the closeness and rides. It doesn't matter what they build, the people will still come. I think Mystic Timbers is a great addition because it fills that void for younger kids and adults who want more than The Racer but less than The Beast in a woodie. It might not make sense to you, and that's ok, it doesn't have to because you aren't paying one penny in CF's investment in any park. So take a minute, get off your soap box and let those who know how, are paid to, and have their jobs on the line run the parks.

[ytterbiumanalyst]

Certainly the enthusiast community would be able to put together a park that would be fun to visit. Regardless of your stance on Mystic Timbers vs Giga as a decision made by the park, would you rather KI add Mystic Timbers or Diamondback 325?

 

But we're coaster enthusiasts. We better be able to think of good coaster ideas!

 

The people who run the park companies certainly do make mistakes, but I can't go so far as to say that they'd be better off with us making their financial decisions.

In all honesty, I'd probably hate the park that enthusiasts built. My very favourite parks are those that value quality over quantity and understand that bigger is not necessarily better. In fact, my top 3 parks (Disneyland, Silver Dollar City, Holiday World) have not a single ride (not just coaster, but any ride at all) over 200 feet. What they do have is a sense of place and an opportunity to escape the real world for a while. That feeling, whether on rides or not, is what makes theme parks special.

[BigBad]

While it is not my preference, I get why someone could prefer an atmosphere like Disney or at the non-corporate parks like HW or SDC (never been to either, though).

 

But if a park had Fury 325, Skyrush, El Toro, Shambhala, Maverick, Helix, Lightning Rod, Boulder Dash, and Top Thrill Dragster, I have my doubts that any of us would hate it. (And if I've left out your favorite coaster, stick it the park! And if you find a NoLimits video of something you like and wish existed, put it in here, too. Remember, we've got trillions of dollars to spend on this project.)

[prozach626]

In all honesty, I'd probably hate the park that enthusiasts built.

You and me both.

 

I been on both Beast and Voyage and I have to say I do prefer Voyage way more. However KI has more coasters and thrill rides so if i had to pick Id pick KI. I have yet to try Diamondback and Banshee. However I'd like to try Thunderbird that coaster looks a lot of fun.

I like turtles.

Edited March 4, 2017 by prozach626

[storms555]

As unrealistic as it sounds I think are park for hard core coaster enthusiasts would be sooo awesome!! If it was possible my idea of an awesome thrill park for coaster lovers would have rides like El Toro,I305,Fury325,Top Thrill Dragster some sort of wicked RMC or a few! Some with super fast speed too in the 80s and 90s and even 100s! Also it would have unique coasters like the ones you see at Magic Mountain like X2 and Yolo Coaster! No lame-o family friend coasters either!! There would even be some old school woodies with fix lap bars for awesome airtime! ......That will be the closest to family friend you'd get! The place would focus on tall steep drops,wicked inversions,wicked air time hills,and be thrashed around with fast transitions! No shallow curved drops or traditional twisty track where you just turn and turn and turn....yawn. It will be the type of twisty track where you dont know which way is up and dont know your left from your right! Sigh....but we can only dream....

 

Oh and it will have awesome flat rides too of course!

Edited March 4, 2017 by storms555

[prozach626]

Although I'm not all in with what Eugene says, I understand at least some of his points. The idea of holding off on a major investment to save for a larger investment is easy to understand from a completely common sense financial point of view. *example* If I don't go out for a hamburger today, next week I will have enough to go out for steak. From someone who is pretty good with money, I get that and I'm on board with it. However, I'm sure what Cedar Fair has to work with is much more complex than what anyone outside of the box, or amusement park industry in general, can really understand. The bottom line is we're not in the know. We're just your run of the mill armchair quarterbacks. Even those of us who have great insight to the professional financial world are not keen to the inner workings of this particular corporation.

[prozach626]

As unrealistic as it sounds I think are park for hard core coaster enthusiasts would be sooo awesome!! If it was possible my idea of an awesome thrill park for coaster lovers would have rides like El Toro,I305,Fury325,Top Thrill Dragster some sort of wicked RMC or a few! Some with super fast speed too in the 80s and 90s and even 100s! Also it would have unique coasters like the ones you see at Magic Mountain like X2 and Yolo Coaster! No lame-o family friend coasters either!! There would even be some old school woodies with fix lap bars for awesome airtime! ......That will be the closest to family friend you'd get! The place would focus on tall steep drops,wicked inversions,wicked air time hills,and be thrashed around with fast transitions! No shallow curved drops or traditional twisty track where you just turn and turn and turn....yawn. It will be the type of twisty track where you dont know which way is up and dont know your left from your right! Sigh....but we can only dream....

 

Oh and it will have awesome flat rides too of course!

 

Here: http://www.themeparkreview.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=58387

 

[DorneyKid14]

Sorry to go off topic here, but does anyone know if there will be a gift shop at the exit of the ride?

[anonymouscactus]

^ Maybe that's what's in the shed

[bluestreak]

Sorry to go off topic here, but does anyone know if there will be a gift shop at the exit of the ride?

 

Considering the recent trend with new cedar fair rides, I'd assume so.

[kenban]

If there is a gift shop I am not sure where it will be located. As of right now there is no new buildings except the station and shed visible on the webcams. Also there was a blueprint image going around a few weeks ago which showed the line and exit. The exit basically dumps you onto the exit for the train. There is a very small new kiosk which I assume to be for photos. There is still a lot of work going on so it is possible a gift shop will pop up last minute, but I doubt it.

[CP Maverick]

Although I'm not all in with what Eugene says, I understand at least some of his points. The idea of holding off on a major investment to save for a larger investment is easy to understand from a completely common sense financial point of view. *example* If I don't go out for a hamburger today, next week I will have enough to go out for steak. From someone who is pretty good with money, I get that and I'm on board with it. However, I'm sure what Cedar Fair has to work with is much more complex than what anyone outside of the box, or amusement park industry in general, can really understand. The bottom line is we're not in the know. We're just your run of the mill armchair quarterbacks. Even those of us who have great insight to the professional financial world are not keen to the inner workings of this particular corporation.

If the burger you buy this week prevents you from going hungry until you can afford the steak, would you still skip it?

[prozach626]

^ You don't know what I'm capable of, when it comes to money AND/OR diet!

[CP Maverick]

Some people probably think you should have gotten the chicken, or salad instead. You probably could have survived on vegetables, too. But if the burger makes sense now, and you feel you need to eat anyway, maybe it's not such a bad idea. You could still have plans for steak next week, too.

[prozach626]

I see...

[larrygator]

The problem I see in some of these "expert" opinions.

(The $ I am using a purely speculative)

 

Saving the cost of Mystic Timbers and building a bigger coaster next year. In a typical year Kings Island needs to spend $1MM-$3MM for a big flat and every 3rd or 4th year they seem to get additional funds for a bigger coaster. In the past few cycles, every 3rd or 4th year they had an incremental $10MM-$12MM (for Diamondback and Banshee) but CF is decreasing yearly CapEx spending, therefore they were given only an incremental $5MM (and the park went with Mystic Timbers.) So KI had $8MM to spend for 2017, if they buy any they is an assumption that they will get another $2M next year, and $2MM the following year, and $2M the next year and then $8 the next year, so it is going to be 4 more years with no new big rides, before they can build that $20MM coaster. I think would hurt sales from the locals.

 

The second problem with this approach: that is not how business works. The parks get a budget to spend each year, if you don't spend your budget it is gone, you can't easily roll it into next year. And next year's budget is set based on the current year, so understanding your budget means you will get a smaller piece of the pie in the following year.

 

It is never going to be a situation that Kings Island has too much of something, unless that something is the same as Cedar Point. Cedar Fair doesn't just want the Kings Island locals the buy KI Passes, they want to sell Platinum Passes, along the same lines they don't want the locals from Cincinnati to ignore Kings Island in favor of Cedar Point (or even Kentucky Kingdom).

[sirloindude]

I would actually be quite surprised if parks got to pick their new rides. I feel like as small as these chains are, the decisions for new rides would be made at a corporate level. I remember Dick Kinzel saying once that Patriot was sort of above and beyond what they'd have normally spent for a new attraction for Worlds of Fun back when it got added, which led me to believe that the decision to add it came from a higher level than the park. I'm sure GMs have input, and please correct me if I'm actually wrong on this, but I don't think that the decisions to build rides like Mystic Timbers, Banshee, or what have you, were made solely by KI people.

 

I'm sure they do have some sort of discretionary budget for certain things, but I would expect that budget to be for little more than general upkeep.

Edited March 4, 2017 by sirloindude

[larrygator]

but I don't think that the decisions to build rides like Mystic Timbers, Banshee, or what have you, were made solely by KI people.

 

This is how I think it works for Cedar Fair parks. Decisions are not made solely by the parks, but the parks have input.

[DorneyKid14]

but I don't think that the decisions to build rides like Mystic Timbers, Banshee, or what have you, were made solely by KI people.

 

This is how I think it works for Cedar Fair parks. Decisions are not made solely by the parks, but the parks have input.

 

Yes. All parks in the company have a three-five year plan. For example, CP would be gatekeeper, Gemini midway, rougarou, valravn, and water park. Carowinds would be fury, waterpark, county fair. Robb decker is the VP of planning and design, so he plans everything for parks.