Kings Island (KI) Discussion Thread

[Dr. M]

I want to apologize for contributing to all this talk of "forceless" versus "forceful", I have my own opinions but obviously it's very subjective and like it's been pointed out, no coaster is actually "forceless". But I'm getting a little sick of all the talk about which coaster belongs to which category. It's just reaaalllly getting beaten to death at this point. There are way more exciting, great inverts than slow boring ones, end of story. Let's hope Banshee belongs to the former (though I highly doubt it, but I'd love to be wrong). And something as intense as a Batman clone won't be for everyone anyway. I don't get why, but fine. Not that Batman is my favorite invert anyway, that belongs to Talon, which has a longer ride time while retaining a tight, compact layout and a decent mix of forces.

[rcjp]

Not that Batman is my favorite invert anyway, that belongs to Talon, which has a longer ride time while retaining a tight, compact layout and a decent mix of forces.

Talon was way better than I thought it would be with one of the best pacings I've ever experienced on a ride and with some forceful moments too (the helix after the immelmann and the turn after the corkscrew). I think it's a great invert.

 

Not one friend of mine liked any Batman clones over Raptor. Not one. Everyone got off saying how rough it was. Only here, do I see the praise for it.

Am I the only one who has never experienced a rough ride on a batman clone? I'm not doubting anyone's word but it's weird that I've always found them so smooth. This year I rode the one at Great Adventure (in the back and in the front) and it was 100% silky smooth, not one big of headbanging whatsoever and it is 20 YEARS OLD now. I found that impressive.

[IronWolfman]

^I thought SFGAm's Batman was butter smooth and awesome every time I rode it.

[coasterbill]

Am I the only one who has never experienced a rough ride on a batman clone?

 

They couldn't be smoother, I seriously have no idea what any of these people are talking about.

[gerstlaueringvar]

Comparing all the Batman clones I've been on, SFGAm's is the roughest and Sea World San Antonio's Great White is the smoothest. SFSt.L's is the tamest and SFFT's Goliath is the most intense one. There are some difference between them.

[goatdan]

As for your question of any Batman clones being closed down, that's sort of silly as ridership has to do with capacity, and they are still running at capacity as are most major rides at Six Flags parks, however if you did a line wait study of the average wait to go on those particular rides, they are definitely not as popular as they once were. From what I have seen, the "forceless" B&M rides have had a much less measured drop off so far. We'll see if that stays, but it is interesting none the less and something that parks do examine.

 

I don't really think this is a fair argument to make, though. In general, most Batman clones reside in parks that have since built multiple signature attractions, so these coasters aren't main draws anymore. However, the larger, less forceful inverts, like Silver Bullet, Afterburn, Flight Deck, ect. are still some of the signature attractions in their respective parks, and therefore have retained more of their ridership.

 

Heh, I'll actually fully agree that this isn't exactly a fair argument to make, but stating that "declining ridership" would be the reason that a park might want to go with a less intense experience than a more intense one isn't exactly the argument that I would have put forth. I was just looking at a way that you might try to defeat that argument.

 

I'd suggest looking at the opening of Countdown to Extinction at Animal Kingdom or the Indiana Jones Adventure at Disneyland to perhaps discover a more realistic reason that parks don't want the rides to be super intense. In both of those cases, the parks opened with the rides VERY intense, but were able to program the rides operation differently to bring the intensity down. In particular, Indiana Jones was been insanely popular since day 1... why would Disney want to bring down the intensity of the ride, and did it have any noticeable impact on the ridership?

 

Then, correlate that information with the time frame that B&M started building rides with less and less insane forces, and...

 

I think you'll come up with a much better line of reasoning behind why B&M started cutting back on the insane forces, and why the parks would want that.

 

(by the way, not that I mind the insane forces myself. I'll take a Batman clone over any B&M built since 2000 any day. But I totally understand why parks wouldn't.)

[coasterbill]

You bring up a good point but correlation does not imply causation. I think the fact that the parks have built bigger and more impressive looking rides is the reason for the decline in line length of the (still very popular) Batman rides. There are plenty of intense B&M coasters around the country that are still incredibly popular.

 

If the GP always preferred "forceless" rides to forceful rides, how do you explain the popularity of Intamin rides? Surely everyone in line isn't an enthusiast, so I think it's unfair to say that the GP prefers forceless rides. Forceful Intamin rides like Kingda Ka, Top Thrill Dragster, Maverick, El Toro and Bizarro always have huge lines even though there are a lot of other less forceful rides for people to ride in their respective parks. In many cases these rides are the most popular or one of the most popular rides in their parks.

 

The Batman rides are still popular, but in every park they're in there have been newer, taller, faster rides built that cut down on the line length a little bit. Still, I highly doubt any of those rides are going anywhere anytime soon and I doubt the fact that they're forceful is a negative factor in their decreased line lengths.

[goatdan]

If the GP always preferred "forceless" rides to forceful rides, how do you explain the popularity of Intamin rides? Surely everyone in line isn't an enthusiast, so I think it's unfair to say that the GP prefers forceless rides.

 

Like I said, look up what Disney changed with their rides where they could simply change the programming up to change their forces above, and I think you'll find the *real* key over why *parks* prefer so-called 'forceless" rides.

 

It's very similar to the reasons that Kings Island has the space to put Banshee to begin with.

[A.J.]

A lot of my friends who aren't coaster enthusiasts cry and scream on rides like the Hersheypark Comet or Lakeside Cyclone - I don't think the perceived "intensity" of a coaster really matters. It's a giant structure of wood (or steel), it's loud, and people scream on it.

[coasterlover420]

It's a giant structure of wood, it's loud, and people scream on it.

[MFJorts]

The Batman rides are still popular, but in every park they're in there have been newer, taller, faster rides built that cut down on the line length a little bit. Still, I highly doubt any of those rides are going anywhere anytime soon and I doubt the fact that they're forceful is a negative factor in their decreased line lengths.

 

Good points and I agree with you on most points, but there is a minor factor I feel you have overlooked: re-rideability. Most people need a break after a very intense ride, whereas on a lesser intense one they might run back around and get in line for another go. Granted, many people treat amusement park rides as one-and-done per visit, so this is probably not a huge factor, but it is something that probably does contribute to some extent.

[rcjp]

^Assuming the GP does enjoy riding coasters, do they need a bigger break than the one provided by waiting in line to ride again after an intense ride? If I think of my mom, for instance, she was dead after riding batman (at great adventure) but then she doesn't really like coasters overall. For those who do, is it really a need for them to have such pauses? Because unless there is nobody in line and you go again without leaving your seat there will be, at least, a 3min (or more) break between rides, just by leaving the place, getting back to the queue, sitting and waiting until the train is dispatched and, in most cases, climbing the lift hill.

[Woodie Warrior]

At SFSTL my sister, a friend, and I rode Batman six times in a row. We only got off because of the time, but none of us felt queasy at all. Do these forces really make people queasy/not want to reride?

[crazydude]

At SFMM, if you ride green lantern first, Batman will seem pretty forceless. And the GP will wait hours for that green mess.

[XYZ]

At SFMM, if you ride green lantern first, Batman will seem pretty forceless. And the GP will wait hours for that green mess.

 

I get it. You ride Green Lantern first to put yourself in a coma so you don't need to spend a whole day at SFMM.

[PKI Jizzman]

Comparing all the Batman clones I've been on, SFGAm's is the roughest and Sea World San Antonio's Great White is the smoothest. SFSt.L's is the tamest and SFFT's Goliath is the most intense one. There are some difference between them.

Interesting, I thought SFFT's Goliath was the lamest. The most intense, I believe, is SFOG's Batman. Probably due to the constant high head and humidity there. But honestly I haven't had a rough ride on a B&M invert. Backwards Batman smacked me around a little bit but that's because I was in the very back row. And it was backwards.

[Vonni]

I've never had a rough experience on ANY B&M Coaster.

[gerstlaueringvar]

I've never had a rough experience on ANY B&M Coaster.

Sign up for China tour and you will get beaten like on Mean Streak at Chimelong's Dive Machine's first drop

 

^^ Probably my intense ride was due to the 103 degrees heat that day? Weather has a lot to do with the ride experience.

[boardwalkbullet91507]

Comparing all the Batman clones I've been on, SFGAm's is the roughest and Sea World San Antonio's Great White is the smoothest. SFSt.L's is the tamest and SFFT's Goliath is the most intense one. There are some difference between them.

Interesting, I thought SFFT's Goliath was the lamest. The most intense, I believe, is SFOG's Batman. Probably due to the constant high head and humidity there. But honestly I haven't had a rough ride on a B&M invert. Backwards Batman smacked me around a little bit but that's because I was in the very back row. And it was backwards.

 

I haven't ridden SFOG's but I'm with you on SFFT. It really isn't the most intense. Don't get me wrong, it is forceful and I do grey out, but I think the most forceful is Sea World San Antonio's. If I'm not mistaken, the ride is 'squished together', the layout was compressed to make it fit where it is, so the elements are a bit closer together thus making it a bit more forceful, but I don't know if there's any truth to that so if there is anyone who could validate that claim that would be nice.

[DavidW]

this weeks time lapse video. Week 21 (12/16/13 - 12/22/13):

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[Dr. M]

Am I the only one who has never experienced a rough ride on a batman clone?

 

They couldn't be smoother, I seriously have no idea what any of these people are talking about.

 

When people, especially members of the GP, talk about "roughness", they don't always mean the same thing. When people say Batman is rough, they don't mean headbanging or vibration, they mean the sharp, "jerky" transitions combined with the forces. The transitions aren't smooth like we're used to with newer B&Ms, I've never been on a coaster that whips you into inversions like Batman does. It's those sudden changes that jerk you around that people say are "rough".

 

"That track in front and to the right of us. Are we seriously about to be riding that track in a second? We're getting there from here? How's that supposed to work? *gets whipped around first corkscrew* Oh, that's how."

[Ohiocoasterman]

Update on construction...

 

[youtu_be]

[/youtu_be]

[DATman]

Random aside, the construction schedule for this coaster has been brilliant because not only are they making great progress, but they had the most visible portion of the ride built for the end of the season. Not only did that give guests a reason to immediately start planning a return trip in the spring, it gave regulars a lot to talk about in the off-season because they actually got to see parts of the ride in person. A lot of seasonal parks don't have the opportunity to work on that kind of timetable, so props to KI for being ahead of the game.

 

I'm sure someone said it already, but I hadn't seen any posts about it in the parts of the thread I've kept up with. Plus construction schedules like this give us more to talk about in the early stages of the off season!

[rcjp]

^^Nice video although I must say I'm a bit disappointed that there will be sand in the track. I know he said we will still hear the roar but I doubt it will be something like great bear and that would add something to the experience, in my opinion.

 

Am I the only one who has never experienced a rough ride on a batman clone?

 

They couldn't be smoother, I seriously have no idea what any of these people are talking about.

 

When people, especially members of the GP, talk about "roughness", they don't always mean the same thing. When people say Batman is rough, they don't mean headbanging or vibration, they mean the sharp, "jerky" transitions combined with the forces. The transitions aren't smooth like we're used to with newer B&Ms, I've never been on a coaster that whips you into inversions like Batman does. It's those sudden changes that jerk you around that people say are "rough".

 

"That track in front and to the right of us. Are we seriously about to be riding that track in a second? We're getting there from here? How's that supposed to work? *gets whipped around first corkscrew* Oh, that's how."

 

Yeah that's pretty much it and I do wish B&M still made their inverted corkscrews like that, especially considering that these new restraints translate into no headbanging. On the interview he mentioned that all the great inverted elements will be there but I do think a good old snappy corkscrew is somehow missing. As to what you said about people meaning jerky transitions by rough I also agree but that's because, if you're not prepared, your head can hit the restraints. However, as I've already said, I do think that with these vest-style restraints they could have such transitions without any headbanging.

[Blue Turbo]

^^Nice video although I must say I'm a bit disappointed that there will be sand in the track. I know he said we will still hear the roar but I doubt it will be something like great bear and that would add something to the experience, in my opinion.

Especially since the Banshee is known for her scream, the load roar would have for in very well with the theming if the ride.