Kings Island (KI) Discussion Thread

[coasterjunkie1975]

It seem like everyone is predicting that Kings Islands "Project 2014" is either going to be

 

a) an Intamin or B&M Giga or

 

b) a B&M Dive Machine

 

 

I however am going to throw this idea out there....it has been long rumoured that B&M is ready to try their hand at building a launched coaster. Perhaps "Project 2014" is that first foray into launched coasters for the company.

[BenFreeze]

^Launched B&M giga dive!

[bonsaiisuperstar]

Was at the park this morning. Windseeker, Drop Zone, and Delerium were all not operating due to wind. It was NOT windy at all. I'm guessing Cedar Fair has a new wind policy for rides over so high?

Our new coaster was taking shape. Footers are higher and they were doing a lot of work on the hill down the valley. No pictures were taken.

[B&MIntaminGCI]

Was at the park this morning. Windseeker, Drop Zone, and Delerium were all not operating due to wind. It was NOT windy at all. I'm guessing Cedar Fair has a new wind policy for rides over so high?

Our new coaster was taking shape. Footers are higher and they were doing a lot of work on the hill down the valley. No pictures were taken.

 

There might not be wind on the ground, but 300 feet up, it could be a hurricane.

[goatdan]

I however am going to throw this idea out there....it has been long rumoured that B&M is ready to try their hand at building a launched coaster. Perhaps "Project 2014" is that first foray into launched coasters for the company.

 

I know it wasn't exactly all them, but Hulk...

 

As for B&M / launched, if the rumors about this thing being BIG are true, I wouldn't expect to see it as a huge B&M launched ride. B&M is generally a more conseravative company, so I would expect their first launched ride to be significantly smaller so they can feel comfortable working out the bugs.

 

Could be totally wrong, but I just don't see it.

[_koppen]

As for B&M / launched, if the rumors about this thing being BIG are true, I wouldn't expect to see it as a huge B&M launched ride. B&M is generally a more conseravative company, so I would expect their first launched ride to be significantly smaller so they can feel comfortable working out the bugs.

 

There's really no point for them to start out with a smaller ride, they already know how to make a big coaster, so there's no problem there, just build what the first buyer asks for.

 

Making launch for a smaller coaster won't be any different than making a launch for a bigger coaster (unless you want it faster than 120km/h) it just needs to be longer to gain the speed, but on the technical side it's all the same.

 

If B&M would do a launch they would buy LSM motors, it's very easy to find a good supplier of those nowadays, and they showed with Krake that they already has the design ready to integrate the magnetic fins into the track and vehicles.

 

It's gonna be interesting to see if they will do the programming themselves or outsource it, for their first magnetic launch.

 

[rcjp]

^ I also believe they would choose LSMs and I also thought about Krake's magnetic brakes. I'm just not quite sure if it would adapt to other designs of coaster as krake's trains seem to be quite tall compared to other types of trains (such as sitting). And that means it is a bit further from the track which allows them to put the magnets (where the brake fins go through) above the place where the drive tires are when the train goes over them. This might be a small detail ro just an impression, though.

 

[goatdan]

There's really no point for them to start out with a smaller ride, they already know how to make a big coaster, so there's no problem there, just build what the first buyer asks for.

 

Making launch for a smaller coaster won't be any different than making a launch for a bigger coaster (unless you want it faster than 120km/h) it just needs to be longer to gain the speed, but on the technical side it's all the same.

 

I don't know... at least what it seems is the larger the launch, the more problems the ride has.

 

Are there any B&M rides that anyone can think of that had a ton of problems opening, and again, are there any B&M rides people can think of that that have considerable downtime regularly? I can't think of any. Everything they do screams reliability, and that is the exact opposite thing that I see with launches.

 

While you build whatever a park asks for, if you think that particular design might change the public perception of your company, it suddenly becomes more valuable to not make a ride and keep that reputation intact.

[Justice]

As for B&M / launched, if the rumors about this thing being BIG are true, I wouldn't expect to see it as a huge B&M launched ride. B&M is generally a more conseravative company, so I would expect their first launched ride to be significantly smaller so they can feel comfortable working out the bugs.

 

There's really no point for them to start out with a smaller ride, they already know how to make a big coaster, so there's no problem there, just build what the first buyer asks for.

 

Making launch for a smaller coaster won't be any different than making a launch for a bigger coaster (unless you want it faster than 120km/h) it just needs to be longer to gain the speed, but on the technical side it's all the same.

I would have to disagree.

 

If you look at most of the models is very much a ease in in recent history. The stand ups and inverts are a different story. But Tatsu & SkyScraper are certainly a step up from Air & Superman. SheiKra & Griffon were a big step up from Oblivion and its Korean brother. And most recently we've seen that Ratpor was very conservative compared to X-Flight, Swarm, and GateKeeper.

 

B&M definitely does like to ease into their new products with something forceless and rather unremarkable into something more dramatic.

[_koppen]

I'm just not quite sure if it would adapt to other designs of coaster as krake's trains seem to be quite tall compared to other types of trains (such as sitting). And that means it is a bit further from the track which allows them to put the magnets (where the brake fins go through) above the place where the drive tires are when the train goes over them. This might be a small detail ro just an impression, though.

 

Good point!

I wonder if it's true, or if it looks that way because the lack of wheel covers.

 

I don't know... at least what it seems is the larger the launch, the more problems the ride has.

 

When speaking of mechanical launches this can be the case, to some degree.

However that's not really the case when you are speaking of a magnetic launch, 15 years ago it probably had some effect how fast it was going to launch, but nowadays the technology has come such a long way.

 

The modern LSM launches don't have any moving parts, since the fins can be used for both brakes and launches (which is why LSM has become the more dominant as opposed to LIM's who are more power effective) removing all problems with the mechanical issues (on the launch itself).

 

Whenever a magnetic launch coaster is down it's because of the programing causing troubles (this is most often the case with the hydraulic launchers as well) and then it doesn't really matter if it's a 70km/h or a 110km/h launch, it's going to break down anyway.

Sure the speed of the launch may have some degree of causing problems, but not as much as to were it's significant.

 

I would have to disagree.

 

If you look at most of the models is very much a ease in in recent history. The stand ups and inverts are a different story. But Tatsu & SkyScraper are certainly a step up from Air & Superman. SheiKra & Griffon were a big step up from Oblivion and its Korean brother. And most recently we've seen that Ratpor was very conservative compared to X-Flight, Swarm, and GateKeeper.

 

B&M definitely does like to ease into their new products with something forceless and rather unremarkable into something more dramatic.

 

But were not talking about creating a new coaster type, were talking about putting a launch on already developed coaster types, so you're argument is pointless.

[coasterbill]

I just had a horrible thought.

 

Since they want to take the area back to it's roots and since this is being built right near the old site of King Cobra, maybe it's a B&M standup coaster. Wouldn't that be a real kick in the d**** to everyone.

 

Disclaimer: I don't think this is actually going to happen but I figured I'd bring it up just for fun.

[azza29]

Anyone heading to the park on Thursday and want to meet up?

[goatdan]

I don't know... at least what it seems is the larger the launch, the more problems the ride has.

 

When speaking of mechanical launches this can be the case, to some degree.

However that's not really the case when you are speaking of a magnetic launch, 15 years ago it probably had some effect how fast it was going to launch, but nowadays the technology has come such a long way.

 

The modern LSM launches don't have any moving parts, since the fins can be used for both brakes and launches (which is why LSM has become the more dominant as opposed to LIM's who are more power effective) removing all problems with the mechanical issues (on the launch itself).

 

Whenever a magnetic launch coaster is down it's because of the programing causing troubles (this is most often the case with the hydraulic launchers as well) and then it doesn't really matter if it's a 70km/h or a 110km/h launch, it's going to break down anyway.

Sure the speed of the launch may have some degree of causing problems, but not as much as to were it's significant.

 

The faster the launch is, the more magnets that controls the launch, and just by default the more complex the launch is. And the words that you just used are the exact reason that I would expect that B&M isn't exactly wanting to do a launched ride as it is... "it's going to break down anyway."

 

Again, what B&M rides are known for their significant downtime? This is a company that until relatively recently put dog-legs on all of the coaster lifts that it made to disengage the train from the lift chain exactly right to limit maintenance and increase reliability.

 

I would have to disagree.

 

But were not talking about creating a new coaster type, were talking about putting a launch on already developed coaster types, so you're argument is pointless.

 

I'd argue that it isn't pointless at all. A launched coaster is significantly different in design than an "already developed coaster type." You're talking about probably needing to redesign the trains to handle the launch, and the the ride layout is completely different based on the fact that it is controlled by the initial speed of the train, and not just the pull of gravity.

 

It isn't like you can just take the lift off a normal ride and put in LIMS or LSMs. It requires a lot of additional work.

 

Also, your response seems rather rude just because he is disagreeing. I don't know the guys at B&M personally, so I'm just hypothesizing just like Justice was. No reason to get angry or defensive. If you disagree, please give us additional reasons. If there isn't dialogue, it's pointless to talk

[_koppen]

The faster the launch is, the more magnets that controls the launch, and just by default the more complex the launch is.

 

That is not really the case.

The LSM motors are all placed, and connected, in line, and it is very rare for them to brake.

Whenever a magnetically launch brakes down it is has most often nothing to do with the hardware on the launch itself, it's a software problem, that would be regardless the size of the launch (until you reach the size of a launch that requires and energy storage system).

 

And the words that you just used are the exact reason that I would expect that B&M isn't exactly wanting to do a launched ride as it is... "it's going to break down anyway."

 

Again, what B&M rides are known for their significant downtime? This is a company that until relatively recently put dog-legs on all of the coaster lifts that it made to disengage the train from the lift chain exactly right to limit maintenance and increase reliability.

 

B&M has stated many times that they don't want to build launched coasters, but it's something that they got to do because 1. They need to keep even with the competitors and 2. They have a lot of loyal customers that I'm sure they want to be able to offer a launched product for.

 

Also you need to stop thinking about other B&M's little downtime, it's not gonna matter when doing a launched ride, because launched rides has more downtime than regular coasters, that is something that B&M know,and they are just going to have to accept it, and build the best type of launch they can.

 

I'd argue that it isn't pointless at all. A launched coaster is significantly different in design than an "already developed coaster type." You're talking about probably needing to redesign the trains to handle the launch, and the the ride layout is completely different based on the fact that it is controlled by the initial speed of the train, and not just the pull of gravity.

 

It isn't like you can just take the lift off a normal ride and put in LIMS or LSMs. It requires a lot of additional work.

 

Yes, but they already have the coaster on lock down.

Flying coasters, Wing riders and big Dive machine's were all developed slowly, because they couldn't really predict how the ride experience would turn out, and how it would effect the train and the coaster itself.

 

That is not the case if they wan't to do an ex. floorless launched coaster, they already knows how it's going to ride, and they know what forces will effect it and they knows how to build the train and integrate the magnetic fins.

 

Other than that it's not really as complex as you say. The LSM launches are very precise about the speed they achieve, and it's very usual to put a big element right after the launch to get the speed under control (which is why most rides like Blue Fire or Intamin top hats crawl over the top), other than that you just use a trim break after the first element to assure that the ride won't overspeed.

 

B&M has some of the best engineers on the planet, they will figure it out.

 

Also, your response seems rather rude just because he is disagreeing.

 

They are not rude.

[dumakey1212]

Is it fair to say that once track arrives we will be able to determine if it's going to be a dive machine OR rule it out based on the track width?

[_koppen]

Is it fair to say that once track arrives we will be able to determine if it's going to be a dive machine OR rule it out based on the track width?

 

Yes you could, assuming that it's the big dive machine track (like Sheikra & Griffon). If it's smaller track it could still be a small one, like Krake.

[OCJ48]

If you can see the labels on the track you can know for sure, but if they put it all in that field rather than a parking lot staging area, I'm not sure that you would be able to see them.

[dumakey1212]

I'm really looking forward to seeing track start to arrive, but I don't imagine any of it will begin to arrive until late July at the earliest.

[ultradude306]

For those who said B&M doesn't want to build launchers, therefore they won't build one, here's a thought that popped ino my mind. They said a similar thing with gigas, and eventually, they built one.. Leviathan, which happens to be in my home park.

 

In addition, not ALL b&m prototypes are forceless, as somebody mentioned above, as proven with leviathan, which some claim rivals mf in terms of best giga.

 

Just my two cents

[TyRush]

I just will wait to make any more speculations. At this point it could honestly be anything.

 

^And I-305 is THE BEST GIGA

[stashua123]

Going there tomorrow. I will report back on any new construction and if its outside the Thunder Alley Area yet.

[coasterjunkie1975]

In addition, not ALL b&m prototypes are forceless, as somebody mentioned above, as proven with leviathan, which some claim rivals mf in terms of best giga.

 

Huh? Other than the first drop it is the definition of forceless. And I think I-305 blows the two other gigas out of the water...

 

Really hope KI gets something better than that!

 

 

I agree with this......I-305 is by far the superior of the three North American Gigas. Leviathan has a great first half and then it is a snoozefest in the second half. The only reason I rate it higher than Millenium Force is because I can ride Leviathan whenever my heart desires.

 

If Kings Island is indeed getting a B&M Giga I hope it has better layout than Leviathan. More of those little high speed bunny hops would be great

[PKI Jizzman]

But strangely enough people seem to like Behemoth better than Diamondback, and Intimidator (Carowinds) less than Diamondback. If we do get a B&M giga, I hope it will be an improvement over Leviathon, which I think was a waste of track. I mean look at that massive brake run. I'm hoping they do something with the 'roots' as in the terrain.

 

Give me an invert, Intamin, B&M, giga, hyper, wooden, or especially a hybrid!. Make it a low to the ground terrain B)

[ValleyfairFan]

^Have you been on Leviathon, or are you just bashing it over the brake run length?

[rcwizard13]

Over at KICentral Forums there's a report of green Intamin track spotted just south of Columbus on I-71. http://www.kicentral.com/forums/index.php?/topic/27442-intamin-track-on-south-i71-columbus/

 

If it's true there's no way its headed anywhere but KI.