asimowalk Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 (edited) We need a capicity monster. We dont want to repeat the Italian Job nightmare! I rode it in 2005 and had to wait about 3 hours . Oh and so your saying that they shouldnt build a giga because of cedar point? Thats like saying that we shouldnt build a new woodie because of holiday world! Cedar Point actually has a clause that no parks within 200 miles of it can build anything like they have or something to that extent. The park management told us that when TPR was at Canada's Wonderland. Even if they both under the same parent company? There was the story about how CW couldn't get a B&M invert because of CP, but CW was a Paramount Park back then. Based off of pattern between KI and CW in recent years, I wouldn't be surprised if KI got a B&M hyper. But as I said a few pages back, I would expect the SOB area to become a new midway with more than just one coaster replacing it. Edited August 13, 2012 by asimowalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hilltopper39 Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 And Kings Island and Cedar Point are more than 200 miles apart..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vacoaster09 Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 A huge B&M invert would be nice... something that could be the tallest inverst all they need is 200ft to beat out alpengeist. Capacity would not be an issue. A floorless would also be nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stitch_101 Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 Well that's the first I've ever heard of them having a clause like that. How would they get any other parks to agree to it? Or is it with the manufacture, having them agree not to build something similar in other parks? We need a capicity monster. We dont want to repeat the Italian Job nightmare! I rode it in 2005 and had to wait about 3 hours . Oh and so your saying that they shouldnt build a giga because of cedar point? Thats like saying that we shouldnt build a new woodie because of holiday world! The big difference there is that KI and CP are both owned by the same company, Holiday Park is not. Of course KI could build a new woodie to compete with Holidy Worlds woodies. But Cedar Fair isn't going to add a Giga in KI, in my own opinion, when they have one in CP that remains a MASSIVE draw for crowds to the park. They will never try to make their 2 parks, that are so close to each other and share much of the same consumer base, compete on terms of coasters, but rather make the parks compliment each other. Oh and as the crow flies, KI and CP are only 163 miles apart... Physical land distance, not driving distance, is what almost everyone uses when drawing contracts like that. Regardless, driving distance is still under 200 miles, not over. It's about a 195 mile drive from park to park. Edit: sorry, they are only 193 miles apart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOCTOR DOOM!!! Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 (edited) ^ The parks don't share the same consumer base... MAYBE Columbus/Indianapolis area?? Other than that, Cedar Point's more Detroit, Toledo, Cleveland, while Kings Island's more Cincinnati, Louisville, Lexington, Dayton, with slightly more visitors than Cedar Point. A Giga at Kings Island is not going to hurt Cedar Point. I'm sure it won't be a MF clone. MF will remain a huge draw to crowds at Cedar Point while a Giga at Kings Island will become a huge draw for crowds at Kings Island! I think people are under the impression that Cedar Fair is purposefully holding Kings Island back so it won't be as good as Cedar Point! I don't believe this because Money is Money! The potential money made versus cost is the issue here! Last time I checked, $$$ were worth the same amount in Southern Ohio and Northern Ohio! We need a capicity monster. We dont want to repeat the Italian Job nightmare! I rode it in 2005 and had to wait about 3 hours . Oh and so your saying that they shouldnt build a giga because of cedar point? Thats like saying that we shouldnt build a new woodie because of holiday world! That's exactly my point! Nobody states "Kings Island doesn't need a B&M invert! Cedar Point has Raptor!" However it is a crime for Giga's, Winseekers and HUSS Giant Frisbees! If Kings Island builds a B&M wing coaster I believe some enthusiast would react the same way! General public would state "Cedar Point has a coaster like this named THE GatekeeperS only their's is 500 feet tall, 267 mph, and has more Loop de Loops!" I'm sure whatever's added won't be an actual clone of something at Cedar Point and will probably be unique to Kings Island! Keep in mind that SOB was a terrain woodie so their's a lot of potential for something epic in the area! It's just a manner of management capitalizing on the area! A new coaster should be a capacity monster however as Kings Island is one of the busiest parks in the nation, slightly more than Cedar Point! I think everyone wondered at some point how a HUGE park like Kings Island got so huge without any Intamins or B&M's till Diamondback! I know the GP doesn't actually know the difference, But the drawing potential from a ride by either manufacturer I believe is huge! Edited August 13, 2012 by DOCTOR DOOM!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stitch_101 Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 Regardless of anything, chances are we won't hear anything concrete about their plans for the SoB site for a while. Most likely not until this time next year at the earliest (though I would be pleasantly surprised if there annoucment this year was exactly that.) For all we know, KI could still be weighing there options on what exactly they want to do with the area. At this point, I'm a little more curious with what we will see replace Crypt after the Haunt, as that will probably happen first. There are numerous different flat rides that could use the location, or possibly they will use the area to build an eatery, carnival games, or possible just storage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
televisedconfession Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 Can we start refereing to Son of Beast as Aborted Son of Beast? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougMJr Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 ^Is it aborted if it has already ran? More like born, neutered, then executed Son of Beast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KI Kidd Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 Regardless of anything, chances are we won't hear anything concrete about their plans for the SoB site for a while. Most likely not until this time next year at the earliest (though I would be pleasantly surprised if there annoucment this year was exactly that.) For all we know, KI could still be weighing there options on what exactly they want to do with the area. At this point, I'm a little more curious with what we will see replace Crypt after the Haunt, as that will probably happen first. There are numerous different flat rides that could use the location, or possibly they will use the area to build an eatery, carnival games, or possible just storage. They know at this point what will replace SOB. There is no reason to suddenly decide now is the time to take the ride down without having a plan in place going forward. I would expect an announcement around this time next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apatos99 Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 ^ The parks don't share the same consumer base... MAYBE Columbus/Indianapolis area?? Other than that, Cedar Point's more Detroit, Toledo, Cleveland, while Kings Island's more Cincinnati, Louisville, Lexington, Dayton, with slightly more visitors than Cedar Point. A Giga at Kings Island is not going to hurt Cedar Point. I'm sure it won't be a MF clone. MF will remain a huge draw to crowds at Cedar Point while a Giga at Kings Island will become a huge draw for crowds at Kings Island! I think people are under the impression that Cedar Fair is purposefully holding Kings Island back so it won't be as good as Cedar Point! I don't believe this because Money is Money! The potential money made versus cost is the issue here! Last time I checked, $$$ were worth the same amount in Southern Ohio and Northern Ohio! We need a capicity monster. We dont want to repeat the Italian Job nightmare! I rode it in 2005 and had to wait about 3 hours . Oh and so your saying that they shouldnt build a giga because of cedar point? Thats like saying that we shouldnt build a new woodie because of holiday world! That's exactly my point! Nobody states "Kings Island doesn't need a B&M invert! Cedar Point has Raptor!" However it is a crime for Giga's, Winseekers and HUSS Giant Frisbees! If Kings Island builds a B&M wing coaster I believe some enthusiast would react the same way! General public would state "Cedar Point has a coaster like this named THE GatekeeperS only their's is 500 feet tall, 267 mph, and has more Loop de Loops!" I'm sure whatever's added won't be an actual clone of something at Cedar Point and will probably be unique to Kings Island! Keep in mind that SOB was a terrain woodie so their's a lot of potential for something epic in the area! It's just a manner of management capitalizing on the area! A new coaster should be a capacity monster however as Kings Island is one of the busiest parks in the nation, slightly more than Cedar Point! I think everyone wondered at some point how a HUGE park like Kings Island got so huge without any Intamins or B&M's till Diamondback! I know the GP doesn't actually know the difference, But the drawing potential from a ride by either manufacturer I believe is huge! I would much rather have a record breaking Invert than a Wing rider. Especially if they could take Raptors first drop and make it twist over completely upside down and then go down into a large loop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apatos99 Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 ^ Possibly but think of how high the electric bill would be??! Also Maverick was the longest line i waited in at CP. (pre Fast Pass) LOL, I wonder just how expensive that is vs using the catapult? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apatos99 Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 Can we start refereing to Son of Beast as Aborted Son of Beast? It joins the Bat in 'Great Idea but horribly executed' hall of fame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
historyfreak92 Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 Well I Understand that people still got hurt on it when the loop was removed But when I rode Texas Tornado at Astroworld in 1999 i seen people got off and when ahhhh (sobbing) oh god, & they called the ambulence and the ride was shut down for 3 years at least and then dismantled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonnyRCT3 Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 ^ The parks don't share the same consumer base... MAYBE Columbus/Indianapolis area?? Other than that, Cedar Point's more Detroit, Toledo, Cleveland, while Kings Island's more Cincinnati, Louisville, Lexington, Dayton, with slightly more visitors than Cedar Point. A Giga at Kings Island is not going to hurt Cedar Point. I'm sure it won't be a MF clone. MF will remain a huge draw to crowds at Cedar Point while a Giga at Kings Island will become a huge draw for crowds at Kings Island! I think people are under the impression that Cedar Fair is purposefully holding Kings Island back so it won't be as good as Cedar Point! I don't believe this because Money is Money! The potential money made versus cost is the issue here! Last time I checked, $$$ were worth the same amount in Southern Ohio and Northern Ohio! We need a capicity monster. We dont want to repeat the Italian Job nightmare! I rode it in 2005 and had to wait about 3 hours . Oh and so your saying that they shouldnt build a giga because of cedar point? Thats like saying that we shouldnt build a new woodie because of holiday world! That's exactly my point! Nobody states "Kings Island doesn't need a B&M invert! Cedar Point has Raptor!" However it is a crime for Giga's, Winseekers and HUSS Giant Frisbees! If Kings Island builds a B&M wing coaster I believe some enthusiast would react the same way! General public would state "Cedar Point has a coaster like this named THE GatekeeperS only their's is 500 feet tall, 267 mph, and has more Loop de Loops!" I'm sure whatever's added won't be an actual clone of something at Cedar Point and will probably be unique to Kings Island! Keep in mind that SOB was a terrain woodie so their's a lot of potential for something epic in the area! It's just a manner of management capitalizing on the area! A new coaster should be a capacity monster however as Kings Island is one of the busiest parks in the nation, slightly more than Cedar Point! I think everyone wondered at some point how a HUGE park like Kings Island got so huge without any Intamins or B&M's till Diamondback! I know the GP doesn't actually know the difference, But the drawing potential from a ride by either manufacturer I believe is huge! I would much rather have a record breaking Invert than a Wing rider. Especially if they could take Raptors first drop and make it twist over completely upside down and then go down into a large loop. Cedar Fair dosen't seem like the Company to spend over 10 million dollars developing a brand new sparkly clone. Just sayin.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stitch_101 Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 ^ The parks don't share the same consumer base... MAYBE Columbus/Indianapolis area?? Other than that, Cedar Point's more Detroit, Toledo, Cleveland, while Kings Island's more Cincinnati, Louisville, Lexington, Dayton, with slightly more visitors than Cedar Point. A Giga at Kings Island is not going to hurt Cedar Point. I'm sure it won't be a MF clone. MF will remain a huge draw to crowds at Cedar Point while a Giga at Kings Island will become a huge draw for crowds at Kings Island! I think people are under the impression that Cedar Fair is purposefully holding Kings Island back so it won't be as good as Cedar Point! I don't believe this because Money is Money! The potential money made versus cost is the issue here! Last time I checked, $$$ were worth the same amount in Southern Ohio and Northern Ohio! We need a capicity monster. We dont want to repeat the Italian Job nightmare! I rode it in 2005 and had to wait about 3 hours . Oh and so your saying that they shouldnt build a giga because of cedar point? Thats like saying that we shouldnt build a new woodie because of holiday world! That's exactly my point! Nobody states "Kings Island doesn't need a B&M invert! Cedar Point has Raptor!" However it is a crime for Giga's, Winseekers and HUSS Giant Frisbees! If Kings Island builds a B&M wing coaster I believe some enthusiast would react the same way! General public would state "Cedar Point has a coaster like this named THE GatekeeperS only their's is 500 feet tall, 267 mph, and has more Loop de Loops!" I'm sure whatever's added won't be an actual clone of something at Cedar Point and will probably be unique to Kings Island! Keep in mind that SOB was a terrain woodie so their's a lot of potential for something epic in the area! It's just a manner of management capitalizing on the area! A new coaster should be a capacity monster however as Kings Island is one of the busiest parks in the nation, slightly more than Cedar Point! I think everyone wondered at some point how a HUGE park like Kings Island got so huge without any Intamins or B&M's till Diamondback! I know the GP doesn't actually know the difference, But the drawing potential from a ride by either manufacturer I believe is huge! Having lived in both the Huntington WV area, and Southern Ohio area all my life (up until a year ago), I think your severely underestimating how far out Cedar Points popularly stretches and how many people trek up to Cedar Point as opposed to going to Kings Island. My friends and I called it the "Myrtle Beach " effect, like how so many people in the area travel to Myrtle Beach for the beach get away even though there are other nice beach spots, like Virginia Beach, that are far closer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOCTOR DOOM!!! Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 ^ I'm included in that category of going to Cedar Point over Kings Island sometimes depending on multiple factors, and I'm in Louisville KY! Last season I went to Kings Island 5 times and Cedar Point 3 times. However I'm just saying that Kings Island has gotten slightly more visitation then Cedar Point numerous times in the past based on overall attendance numbers. So both the parks have potentially high drawing power without watering the other one down! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emiroo Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 A huge B&M invert would be nice... something that could be the tallest inverst all they need is 200ft to beat out alpengeist. I vote for this. I've always thought a real invert (I don't count Invertigo) was the one jewel missing from the KI crown. B&M Inverts are always a crowd pleaser with enthusiasts and the GP alike. And if you throw a couple record breaks in there as well, all the better. I wonder if CF sees inverts as "dated" now though... No matter what happens (even if it is nothing), the removal of SoB is an excellent step forward for KI. The giant white elephant will soon be gone! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stitch_101 Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 ^ The last new inverted steel coaster in the US was Steel Lasso at Frontier City (2008), and it's a Vekoma family suspended coaster. Before that was Patriot at Worlds of Fun (2006). The market was saturated with them in the mid to late 90's and they seem like standered fair at a lot of parks, so I don't know if that's the route Cedar Fair would go with a new coaster. That said, if KI were to put a new coaster "bigger" coaster in, a good B&M inverted is the direction I would hope they go. There have been a few interesting new design elements to their newer ones that I think would make the investment worth while. Though I think they still would be better off expanding the park into that area rather then just dropping a new coaster there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theonetheonlyJT Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 ^ I don't think they would be allowed to build a B&M invert being in the 200 mile range of Cedar Point since CP has Raptor a B&M invert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stitch_101 Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 ^ This is true. I'm wondering more about this clause that says that parks within a 200 mile radius can't receive the same coasters. Just a few days ago was the first time I heard about it. When did it all start? I'm assuming well before CF took over operations of KI. And in any case, as CF now owns both parks and originated the clause to begin with, I'm sure if they truly wanted to put an inverted in KI, they would find a way. Now, I don't think that's the direction they will go, and I've already stated my opinion on what I think they should do with the land, but I think there are many unknowns with what exactly CF owning both parks means for this clause of theirs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theonetheonlyJT Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 ^ They can have the same type of roller coaster but it has to be made by a different manufacture. Since Canada's Wonderland is in the same 200 mile range B&M had to build Leviathan instead of Intamin building it.(this is from what I know) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorkscrewFoley Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 An Intamin invert? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kunpc1 Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 The 200 Nautical Mile rule was implemented ONLY for B&M Inverts back when Raptor was built. That was when Kings Island and Canada's Wonderland were owned by chains other than Cedar Fair. Now that Cedar Fair owns Kings Island and Canada's Wonderland, I can't see why they wouldn't be able to build a B&M invert within the same company. My guess would be it was "no other company" can build one, not "no other park". This clause is the reason Kings Island received a Vekoma Inverted Boomerang and Canada's Wonderland received a Vekoma SLC. Leviathan being a B&M vs. Intamin has nothing to do with one of these types of clauses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theonetheonlyJT Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 ^^ Would be cool if they had the coaster train like an upside down Skyrush train where the outer seats would have nothing above and below the seats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stitch_101 Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 ^ From what I've read, this distance thing has been a problem before for CW, back when they wanted to build Flight Deck. They had plans with B&M, but B&M had to pull out because of the clause, after building Raptor at CP a year earlier. CW ended up going with Vekoma. But from what I also understand, CW tried to work with CP to try and come up with some kind of exception to the clause, but CP refused. That leads me to believe that Cedar Fair has some say about how the clause is upheld, and now with them owning CP and KI, well, and CW for that matter, that they could say "hey, we want an invert in KI." And arn't clauses like that normally for a set period of year, and not indefinite? Most company's I've heard of ever agreeing to such terms almost never do it on an indefinite period. I could understand a ten year block on similar rides. Now, I've havnt seen or read anything about Leviathan being built by B&M because of the clause. Could it be that I'm underestimating CF and the whole clause? Yup, I'm often wrong . But is it possible CF just chose B&M to build Leviathan for any number of other reason we don't know about? I don't see why not... Edit: And kunpc1 already beat me to my point lol! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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