2009 Knex Roller Coaster Project

[bmmoyer]

NAME: Vertical

 

Height: 25ft

 

Elements: 15ft hight loop, magnetic Launch System, 25ft high vertical drop

 

Duration: 7-10 seconds

 

Velocity: 70mph (accel. approx. 0-70 in 2 seconds)

 

Model: Hyper Coaster

 

Status: Design Phase

 

Cost: Approx. $3000

 

Opening Day: TBA

 

Designers: Branden Moyer, Ben Downing, Chris C.

[Wes]

Moving this into the games and models forum...

[Fallen Heretic]

Sounds like an interesting plan. Really, its the magnetic launch that Im interested in. Im curious how you will go about it.

 

Ive heard of experiments on coaster models to make LSMs which didn't prove too successful. I havent heard of anyone building a scale LIM for a model coaster, though I have seen one for a model Maglev.

 

I would love to see your designs for this. Im really keen to see a good LIM or LSM launch on a model. I dont think it can be done for less than stupid money, but I would love to be proved wrong.

[Ccron10]

^^Thanks Wes.

 

I don't know Branden, it seems you might be pushing the limits with this one. A 25 foot high hill with a 15 foot tall loop doesn't really sound plausible. Hopefully it would make a little more sense on the track layout.

 

EDIT: You are going to need computers to get the timing of the magnets to repel and attract to launch this car. Plus the scale of the track and cars from the real thing. Just because it's smaller doesn't mean it will perform the same way. On top of all this is the fact that K'nex Screamin' Serpent Coaster cars aren't built to withstand that kind of speed. We found that out with the Kingda' Ka model.

 

I think we're really better off building Fahrenheit becuase it is an easier coaster to build. Ben and me were already thinking about starting the lift later this week. I don't really want to sound like an idiot for saying this, but I'm just telling you the facts from experience and research and I definately do not want this to end up like this year's coaster.

[bmmoyer]

You do not need computers to run magnets to propel or attract. This is not a real roller coaster so I can not make scale models from it. The type of magnets going to be used is Neodymium magnets. They are the strongest. I will show u some designs for it. It can br done

[Ccron10]

Even though it would be a strong magnet, you would still need to turn the magnetic charge on and off on the magnets. This is why I'm saying that a computer would need to do this because a human can't do it at that kind of speed.

[TheBannedKid]

How old are you? I'm not trying to judge but I would like to know what makes you so sure it will work. Have you done this before, had experience, know someone with experience? Education maybe?

[coastercrazy216]

I am sorry, but I just do not see this working out. That being said, I am very intrigued.

[Ccron10]

It won't work out and here's why. I was looking in one of my coaster books and it a section describing Superman The Escape and why it's opening was delayed. It said this:

The causes for the delay were all realated to the LSM launch system. LIM systems are essentually passive; their electromagnetic fields operate like spinning tires, pushing the train along from one motor to the next. An LSM system is more efficient, yet requires a vastly more complex interaction between the motors and the ride vehicle.

Superman's 6-ton, fifteen-passenger cars carry not simple metal fins but huge magnets. As the magnets pass each other, the motors adjust their energy cycles to coordinate with theenergy cycles of the magnets, like theintermeshing of two spinning gears. Of course, this interaction happens within microseconds, and getting the timing rightis no simple matter. Each LSM in the chain has to be turned on and off at an absolutely precise moment. Test after test was needed to get the timing down, and special software had to be written and revised again and again to control the power delivery to such a fine degree.

Powerful magnets aren't going to cut it. You can have the most powerful ones and the cars still wouldn't move an inch.

 

I'm sorry, but I do not support this k'nex design. The ideas sound too far'fetched and impossible to do. Just because an object is scaled down, doesn't mean it will perform like the real thing.

 

We also agreed to work on and build Fahrenheit, in fact I was talking to Ben just before he went on vacation about starting to build the lift hill and experiment with it when he gets back from vacation later this week. I was also putting a lot of hard time designing the cars to the exact measurements to the Screamin' Serpent cars for FH. I'm sorry, but I think Ben would be pretty ticked off when he finds out that you all of a sudden without our agreement plan to build a different design. You've had a lot more people liking the idea of building Fahrenheit than building this thing.

I'm sorry, but that's the truth.

 

Quote source:

Roller Coasters by Robert Coker 2002

Pages 123-124

[coastercrazy216]

^ I have that book too and I agree this won't work out at all. It is just not going to happen. Sorry...

[Jack Rimer]

It's always more fun to get everyone excited about some outlandish design than it is to actually build it. However, those of us who don't buy into the hype find it foolish and boring. Fortunately, most people on here realize that, so you might want to lower your expectations a little bit.

[Golfie]

I remember from brainstorming for a science project the thought of propelling a car on a track using magnets. What you could possibly do is have a series of magnets lined up down the middle of the track in a + - + - + - sort of fashion. The train would have two magnets that would glide next to the track magnets, and with a small push, the + magnets would pull the train forward, the - magnets would propel the train away, and each push/pull would quickly increase the trains velocity.

 

I'm not sure if this would work at all, but it makes sense in principle.

[Fallen Heretic]

It wont quite work that way. The problem is that when the magnet being accelerated passes the magnet attracting it, it would then deccelerate as the magnet tries to pull it backwards. Thats why LSMs require electromagnets which can be turned on and off.

 

It is possible to build a magnetic accelerator similar to what you describe to launch metal balls, but it requires having each magnet already loaded with a ball in place, and when you stick one in the loading end, it knocks the next ball out of place which is accelerated to the next magnet, which knocks that ball out of place, and so on. By the time the last one is ejected, its going at a high speed.

 

In fact you can buy kits for this. I saw one for sale on thinkgeek. I dont think it can be adapted to launch a coaster model though.

[thrillrideseeker]

Ok... call me crazy, but personally I think it COULD work. Maybe not enough to get a car 25ft up in the air, but I think you could propel a K'Nex coaster car down the track with magnets. You know how you can flip magnets around so they push away from each other. If you make all of the magnets that way and it passes over the first one in my mind it would repel the train while moving it forward. I might be crazy, but your Magnetic launch does not seem to unrealistic. I really want to see how this turns out! Good luck!

~Matthew

[Fallen Heretic]

It would also repel the train as it approached the magnet, slowing it down and likely stopping it. You cant have a passive launch system. You have to put energy into it in order to convert that energy into acceleration. If it was possible to launch a train without actively pumping energy into the system, then all the worlds power needs could be solved overnight, the laws of physics would break down, and the space time continum would unravel. Or something.

[Ccron10]

Here is some news (good or bad, you decide).

Branden has decided to cancel this coaster project. Since he is going to be going to college in a week or two he won't have enough time to get work done on it. He also needs the money too for it, so this is what he is going to do. He is going to sell the k'nex he has, BUT! There is some good news coming out of this.

The K'nex Fahrenheit coaster is still on! Ben and I are still going to build it and have it ready in a year for next year's Community Days. More info in the Fahrenheit Project thread.