Rollercoaster Rider Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 Better addition than Busch Gardens Williamsburg At least SFAm will have all their rides open. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larrygator Posted February 24, 2018 Share Posted February 24, 2018 The best way for SFA to be more solvent, would be to either do away with the season passes, or price them at 4-5 times the price of a single day ticket, and maybe throw in a coupon book to make it a little more appealing. Sorry. I'm late to the game in commenting on this. I completely agree with this except the multiple of 4-5 times. However, SFA can't operate in a vacuum without SF Corporate. I agree because I see what Cedar Fair did. 10 years ago - A $100 pass from any Cedar Fair park used to allow you entry into any CF park. Cedar Fair bit the bullet and took a lot of pushback and criticism from the enthusiast community a few years ago when they started selling their platinum pass. They kept the individual park season passes priced at around $100 (about 2.5 to 3 times a discounted admission ticket). The Platinum Pass became a $100 surcharge. The enthusiast community lost their sh!t because they were being wronged. Oh the outrage, many said they would never visit CF parks again. The present - Most people realize that paying an additional $100 for a CF Platinum Pass practically pays for itself in one visit to a 2nd park, since parking is free. Enthusiasts that spent over $200 for the Platinum Pass start trying to visit more CF parks. When they make these additional side trips they realize they want to maximize their day and they potentially buy a Fast Pass (or add a multi-day stay at Cedar Point). The $200 they spent months ago is a distant memory, so they only consider the price of the Fast Lane into today's trip spending. As more money is spent in the off-season on next year's season passes, the corporation's earning extend into the quarters that used to extremely unprofitable. This provides more shareholders with money and more money for parks to improve. FYI is you bought 50 shares of Cedar Fair in 2009 for a total of $500, they would be valued at $3,500 today and you would also be getting dividend checks in the amount of $180 this year, almost enough to buy a Platinum Pass. Even though SF and shown similar corporate stock price growth to CF since 2010, CF has almost twice the earnings per share as SF due to their pricing structure. Since 2010 Cedar Fair had to dig themselves out of a huge debt hole, while Chapter 11 restructuring saved Six Flags. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill_s Posted February 24, 2018 Share Posted February 24, 2018 ^^-- Platinum is over $100 more and it's a better deal to just get seperate passes for 2 parks. It becomes a deal if you go to 3 parks, and even then really you need to go to 2 of them more than once. I'm not buying that SF passes are so cheap. A special on 4 passes is not the same at all. I know personally only 2 people that bought a set, and both went only once themselves and rode one ride, for different reasons. When you start stretching it to get a "deal" it happens like that. I wouldn't count discounts on merchandise a discount on the pass either, it tends to be they come out ahead. I never used any of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larrygator Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 ^^-- Platinum is over $100 more and it's a better deal to just get seperate passes for 2 parks. It becomes a deal if you go to 3 parks, and even then really you need to go to 2 of them more than once. Gold Pass is about $120, Platinum Pass is about $220. Doesn't make sense to buy two Gold Pass for two parks. I'm not buying that SF passes are so cheap. By what metric are they not cheap. What other park chain allows unlimited visits to all park for that low a price? What other individual park allows unlimited visits to one park for a lower price? Where can you buy a cheaper pass? If you can't buy a cheaper season pass somewhere else, than the Six Flags passes are cheap! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djackson Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 I don't think that Six Flags raising there Pass prices would equivalate to them adding massive B&M's and providing a park experience like Cedar Fair does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trackmaster Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 ^^-- Platinum is over $100 more and it's a better deal to just get seperate passes for 2 parks. It becomes a deal if you go to 3 parks, and even then really you need to go to 2 of them more than once. I'm not buying that SF passes are so cheap. A special on 4 passes is not the same at all. I know personally only 2 people that bought a set, and both went only once themselves and rode one ride, for different reasons. When you start stretching it to get a "deal" it happens like that. I wouldn't count discounts on merchandise a discount on the pass either, it tends to be they come out ahead. I never used any of them. You sound like a 70 year old marketing guy at a board meeting. I'd imagine that the absurdly low cost of season passes compared to the price of tickets come down to two assumptions/philosophies: 1. People are going to buy a season pass and forget about them. They go once, and forget to ever go ago, so on those customers, you make 20-30% more than if you just sold them a one day ticket. 2. You consider the admission price to be the price leader because you actually want to make money on parking, arcade games, Flash Pass sales, food, upcharge attractions, etc. Personally, I don't agree with these philosphies, and I think that analytic, numbers savvy, and tech savvy 25-30 year olds would have these people for lunch. Here's the reality: 1. Some people may buy the season passes and forget about them, but the reality is that many people do go 10-15, bringing their price per visit to less than $8 a visit in some cases. Sure, they may not have gone that many times if they were paying out of pocket, but they're still using your facilities, adding congestion to the park, increasing your insurance, etc. There are many variable costs that go into a park experience. And one of the main problems that "rough" parks like SFA has is that lower income families buy $60 season passes for their kids, and drop them off at the park all summer. The park makes no money, and gets a reputation, because 12-17 year old kids act like... well you know kids. They don't listn to rules, they make scenes, and they have no money. 2. Bringing me to my next point. If you think that somebody, or a family is cheap enough to pay $60 a head on season passes to a crappy park, and to keep coming back all year, what do you think that the chances are that they are buying a lot of your overpriced stuff? Don't think too long or hard on that one. I just in general follow a business strategy of trying to stay as close to paying per item of service as possible, without being a pig about it (I can see the problems with a Spirit Airlines style of marketing). In general, I'd try to charge per visit, I'm mostly against the season passes, but I may allow the if they're costly enough to make them worth my while. If it were up to me, I'd charge per ride, and have a modest admission price too, but I'd see what my board thought as well, people have an emotional attachment to paying one price for an admission all day it seems sadly. I think that with technology, we could easily use a fingerprint recognition or wrist-band system to ensure that all rides are rationed and accounted for. If people had to ration the number of rides, it would help with congestion and wait time. If people are just binging on rides for free, we're not appropriately rationing number of rides by priority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trackmaster Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 I don't think that Six Flags raising there Pass prices would equivalate to them adding massive B&M's and providing a park experience like Cedar Fair does. Its a pretty simple economic concept. There are two ways to make money in business. You can present your product as a commodity and earn a profit off of a large volume and reducing costs to as low as possible. Or you try to differentiate your product and offer something at a premium, and you hope to earn a profit by having a higher sales price, while understanding that you may be limited by a smaller potential customer base and with higher operating expenses. The lower and lower that SF prices their season passes and single day tickets after normal discounts, the more that they rely on the fact that their customers don't mind a cheap, bland user experience, and don't mind that no coasters of quality tend to be built. They're happy riding the lazy river most of the day, and maybe stopping in for a whirl on the scrambler, or SROS. Why not? But if you start putting money into the park, you'll raise prices. You'll drive out the non-serious visitor, those of lower socio-economic statuses (who are probably great people who you get to know them despite the fact that they've been down on their luck by birthright), and the "Basic B." But with their absence, you'll attract people who are starving for a great experience and will save up to go, or those who have high levels of discretionary income, where spending for them is just a status symbol. Those people aren't going to accept old, worn out clones and lazy rivers. They want elite B&M coasters, and preferably RMC's. In my mind, you get what you pay for. If you are OK with paying $8 a visit, ride your Vekoma garbage and leave us alone. If you want RMC and new generation B&M original designs, you might have to pay a little more. Ironicaly, the Greatest Designers of Our Generation seem to be mostly at SFI parks. Clearly they haven't rescued SFA yet, but it seems like the parks that RMC have been going to take their parks seriously, and are interested in the future, and not accepting mediocrity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highridin Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 Hmm, sounds a little elitist, but I digress. Many businesses, even a few powerhouses have found themselves out of business or suffering, because of years of overcharging people. Though I do not agree fully, your charge per ride idea is interesting. Kind of like a carnival. Though, I do not think they could get away with charging at the gate, and on the rides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trackmaster Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 Hmm, sounds a little elitist, but I digress. Many businesses, even a few powerhouses have found themselves out of business or suffering, because of years of overcharging people. Though I do not agree fully, your charge per ride idea is interesting. Kind of like a carnival. Though, I do not think they could get away with charging at the gate, and on the rides. I think that outside of pure seasonal carnivals, many parks who charges per ride also charge at the gate too. Many of the small beach parks come to mind. But that may be a dying breed too, I think that many of them are switching to free admission. I'd personally want to have something keeping people out, so they weren't taking in my intoxicating atmosphere for free. I think that charging per ride is a lot more feasible too with better technology now. We have the technology to scan in using fingerprints, wristbands with chips, smartphones, or keycards -- all of which can come pre-loaded with money or preferably linked to a credit card. So there's no need to wait in line for token or tickets. I'd say that in exchange for pay per ride, I'd focus the park to make money on the rides and admissions, and not so much on the hidden fees. No gouging for parking, food, souvenirs, arcade games, etc. I'd allow food in, have quality options for high end dining that were competitive to restaurants, have reasonable parking with transit busses that were chartered to population centers, and institute a Disney-like Fastpass system (but also integrate it with smart phone accounts and touchscreens across the park) where guests could reserve their spots for rides virtually for free, and no person could jump in line simply because they had more money. I'd also strip out most of the non-elite coasters and rides, and make every ride an experience within themselves that were balanced and appealed to the guest with high standards. So each ride would have the same fare. No kiddie coasters, no scramblers, no wild mice, no Vekoma boomerang, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterBrow Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 If ME is getting the better trains would they announce it on the web site or would we have spot them arriving or sitting nearby? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JG-77 Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 If ME is getting the better trains would they announce it on the web site or would we have spot them arriving or sitting nearby? If I remember correctly (and correct me if I'm wrong) SFNE announced that their Mind Eraser would get new trains. I would assume that if SFA's Mind Eraser was to get new train, they would have announced it somewhere. There's no point in getting Mind Eraser new trains if nobody knows that it has new trains. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djackson Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 If ME is getting the better trains would they announce it on the web site or would we have spot them arriving or sitting nearby? We'd probably have to spot them sitting nearby. The Marketing team st SFA is pretty bad for the most part so I definitely wouldn't expect an announcement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JG-77 Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 If ME is getting the better trains would they announce it on the web site or would we have spot them arriving or sitting nearby? We'd probably have to spot them sitting nearby. The Marketing team st SFA is pretty bad for the most part so I definitely wouldn't expect an announcement I would expect that SF corporate wouldn't fund new trains unless SFA made some sort of announcement or at least some sort of informal recognition (like on the website or at least on social media). I'm ~98% sure that mind eraser will not see new trains in 2018. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trackmaster Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 If ME is getting the better trains would they announce it on the web site or would we have spot them arriving or sitting nearby? If I remember correctly (and correct me if I'm wrong) SFNE announced that their Mind Eraser would get new trains. I would assume that if SFA's Mind Eraser was to get new train, they would have announced it somewhere. There's no point in getting Mind Eraser new trains if nobody knows that it has new trains. I mean you would hope that the park wouldn't put more money into that ride and double down on it. Its a 20+ year old SLC. Wouldn't it be better to invest in a modern, innovative coaster? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coasterbill Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 I would give this "Mind Eraser getting new trains" thing a 0% chance of happening simply because it's Six Flags America, but it's not fair to act like it's a choice between new Mind Eraser trains or a brand new coaster. While we don't have the exact figures, it's reasonable to assume that getting new trains for Mind Eraser is dramatically cheaper. That said, I don't see either of those 2 things happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScreaminNewEngland Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 If ME is getting the better trains would they announce it on the web site or would we have spot them arriving or sitting nearby? If I remember correctly (and correct me if I'm wrong) SFNE announced that their Mind Eraser would get new trains. I would assume that if SFA's Mind Eraser was to get new train, they would have announced it somewhere. There's no point in getting Mind Eraser new trains if nobody knows that it has new trains. They told us the the ACE winter event that they had purchased new restraints for it but nothing was ever announced to the public about it. Ours is apparently getting the Riddler re-theme this year up in New England. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djackson Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 Ours is apparently getting the Riddler re-theme this year up in New England. What are you saying? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterBrow Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 That said, I don't see either of those 2 things happening. How about a path, three trees, or a bathroom in back? They could add VR to any or all of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livai Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 https://static.sixflags.com/website/files/sfA18_park_map_and_guide.pdf new map available, I do not see roads, or new built bathrooms Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trackmaster Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 I would give this "Mind Eraser getting new trains" thing a 0% chance of happening simply because it's Six Flags America, but it's not fair to act like it's a choice between new Mind Eraser trains or a brand new coaster. While we don't have the exact figures, it's reasonable to assume that getting new trains for Mind Eraser is dramatically cheaper. That said, I don't see either of those 2 things happening. My point was that I don't want them putting a long-term investment into a coaster that I wouldn't want to be in the long-term plans. If the park keeps the Minderaser for another 6-8 years, you're gonna have a bad time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coasterbill Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 Honestly I've spent the majority of my adult life pretending Mind Eraser at SFNE didn't exist. It's been my home park forever, we've had passes since 2000 and up until this year I rode it twice ever (the second time after a decade plus long break since Brit had never been on it). This year I rode it twice. I love it now. The new train is awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canobie Coaster Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 I agree 100%. Honestly it's just a notch below Batman now. SLCs have really intense layouts that are easy to enjoy as long as you aren't getting your head bashed against a restraint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterBrow Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 https://static.sixflags.com/website/files/sfA18_park_map_and_guide.pdfnew map available, I do not see roads, or new built bathrooms I SEE TREES ON THE MAP!!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livai Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 https://static.sixflags.com/website/files/sfA18_park_map_and_guide.pdfnew map available, I do not see roads, or new built bathrooms I SEE TREES ON THE MAP!!!!!!!!!!! have I to laugh ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trackmaster Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 Honestly I've spent the majority of my adult life pretending Mind Eraser at SFNE didn't exist. It's been my home park forever, we've had passes since 2000 and up until this year I rode it twice ever (the second time after a decade plus long break since Brit had never been on it). This year I rode it twice. I love it now. The new train is awesome. Even if it wasn't as rough, its still a pretty unimaginative, uninteresting coaster. Imagine how much more fun you'd have on an RMC Raptor or T-Rex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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